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History Guys, would this pass as a Roman Calv. Helm?
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:14 pm
by Halberds
It is almost finished and I was wondering if it is going to be worth the effort.
Thanks,
Hal
Ps: Would a white pony tail be ok?
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:16 pm
by chef de chambre
It looks an awful lot like one. Perhaps one that has been modified by a later local craftsman.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:21 pm
by kersme
that just looks great...
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:30 pm
by Halberds
Thanks guys.
I think I will start over again and build hinges for the cheek plates.
These are rigidity attached and do not cup the face right.
If I bend them in I cannot get it over my head.
Next time I will use 18ga. metal the 14ga. is a bit too heavy.
Hal
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:59 pm
by D. Sebastian
It's a ridge style, but its seems a little styleistic in the nasal (looks more coopergate) and cheeks (they should close). Is it a round top? It looks more oval in the pic.
As it is, I'd say less Roman and more sub-Roman.
A beaver-tail would go a long way toward bringing it back, or put mail on the back and go more sub-Roman, fringe culture.
Sexy though.
[img]http://warriorsofhistory.com/research/Roman/Ridge1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://warriorsofhistory.com/research/Roman/RidgeDeurne.JPG[/img]
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:48 pm
by Omar
Halberds wrote:Next time I will use 18ga. metal the 14ga. is a bit too heavy.
Hal
For an SCA helm, 14g is the way to go. Even 12 for the dome, if you can. My 14g dome is dented all to hell, 16 would of caved in on me by now.. 18g, and I would be dead.
Besides, I think 16g is the minimum.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:03 am
by olaf haraldson
I wasn't under the assumption that this WAS an SCA helm...
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:45 am
by Halberds
It will not be for SCA.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:16 am
by Luca Sogliano
In the examples I've seen the ear holes were more oval, the fact that this is perfectly round looks strange to my eye. D. Sebastian is right about everything he said, except that the cheek plates do not always meet, though they do always curve with the face in that manner.
The nasal does look like it was taken off a coopergate, however, that's not a bad thing, since nobody woke up one day and decided to do a whole new style of helm, and reconstructions (guesses) at the transitional forms are some of the coolest helmets I've seen.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:19 am
by D. Sebastian
I've never seen the cheeks not hinged.
I'd love to if you have an example!
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:34 am
by Luca Sogliano
I've never seen one without hinges either, I didn't meant to imply otherwise. Although, there was obviously some point in the evolution that they lost their hinges, the question then becomes semantic, when does a late Roman helm become an early Coopergate helm...
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:36 am
by Tascius
I notice you have a ring on the top of the helm. Not for this helm. (The Deir el Medineh spangen helm had one but no ridge helms did.)
I think you will find this data base helpful. (page 9)
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/
[/img]
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:52 am
by Tascius
On hinges for Roman helms. The hinges are a given. Sometimes the hinges are metal and visable, sometimes they are leather and hidden behind a panel.
[img]http://tijkools.nl/Peel_Helm_175.jpg[/img]
On the Duerne helm (above) the hinges are hidden and protected by the brassy bronze strip you can see to either side of the eye cut-outs. This picture does not show the back neck guard (it is hidden by a velvet covered stand)
Here is a good repro.
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=13244
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:08 am
by Halberds
Thanks for the pics and link.
What a wealth of information.
I for sure, have to start over again now.
So the Coppergate came after the Romans went home?
Hal
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:18 am
by Primvs Pavlvs
Halberds wrote:So the Coppergate came after the Romans went home?
Hal
Yes, it came after the Romans left the building.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:04 pm
by Omar
Halberds wrote:It will not be for SCA.
Oh, my mistake. Must of mis-read it the first time through.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:01 pm
by Halberds
Omar,
I guess it would be simple enough to add a bar grill and some back slats but I wasn’t fixing to.
This one is all 14ga. and quite heavy.
I was trying to do something more historical.
That is why I will have to start over now, I think I missed the mark.
Hey... It looks nice on my work shop shelf anyway.
Hal
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:07 pm
by Tascius
Give it a good bar grill and a short rigid back plate. Hang a neck guard from that plate and you will have a really nice SCA Roman ridge helm. Heck I'd buy it but I've allready got one! (At 14G it would seem to be a bit light but the extra metal in the banding would toughen it up.)
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:52 pm
by Fearghus Macildubh
Definately has a late Roman/Migration era feel to it. I like it!
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:01 pm
by Halberds
Thanks for the input guys. This is how I learn more.
Here is a different pic view:
I think I will take it to work displayed with a dark maile coif on my skull head helm stand.
The desk jockeys will eat it up.
I can tell them that it is a:
Stylistic Post Roman British Helm Looking Thing.
Think that will work?
Hal
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:08 am
by Wolf
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:15 am
by Otto von Teich
Nice work Hal!
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:05 am
by D. Sebastian
oop!
Found another I forgot I had.
[img]http://warriorsofhistory.com/research/Byzantine/Ridge%20helm%20with%20cru-cut-plume2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://warriorsofhistory.com/research/Byzantine/Ridge%20helm%20with%20cru-cut-plume%201.jpg[/img]
Wolf,
Can't wait to get home and open those links!