The Armour Archive

Hi,

If we were the SCA, what would the fighting system be? Who would be in charge? Etc....

I know that quite a few of us are against knee fighting, plastic, etc....but I don't think the SCA in general is reflected in the AA.

Yep, I'm trolling. Have fun!



-Aaron

I bet we would fight with rattan swords, drop to our knees when hit in the leg, give up an arm when hit there, and call a helm and body shot as a kill and fall down...O wait we already do that

Vebrand

Sir Vebrand, please keep the "cup checks" to a minimum, please.

It would swiftly divide into two groups. One debating exactly what the structure of fighting should be, the rule set, etc. and one consisting of many people fighting - some acting out all blows, some counting, some targeting SCA norms, some using full body targeting, some with a bit of body contact and some with outright grappling.

Among those fighting, pairs would approach, quickly establish which rules they would be comfortable using together and have at it. When two fighters couldn't agree, each would turn away looking for a bout that would match their terms.

Meanwhile, others would continue debating the one true acceptable rule set...

I would have fewer bruises?
But more carpal tunnel (or other RSI?)

Events would consist of dragging dead horses out of barns and then beating them.

Oh...such a question!

Let me see:

There would be a fight, proposed, but,

--first the 2 combatants would have to make long, flowery statements challenging each other. These challenges would draw praise from many.

--But, someone, who thinks their in charge, would complaint that:
A. The words of their challenges isn't based upon enough accurate sources. This would result in alternative challenges, with sources quoted from obscure websites or wikipedia.
B. Others would completely reject the idea based upon whatever armour each combatant is using.
C. Still others would say that the combat should done in a completely different way with completely different armours.
D. Documentation would fly.

--But, another person would complain that "we are here to have fun" and state that all and sundry complaints an comments are umimportant and so null and void. The challenges would be re-issued.

--A counterarguement would ensue, resulting in name-calling, based upon someone political outlook, etc.

--various photos of comment would be posted.

--A picture of a pretty girl would be posted, and there would be much rejoicing.

--By this time the challenge will have been forgotten, but someone will remind us. The challenge will be issued for a third time.

--Continued arguements. however, someone will notice that a challenge issued 3 times and unanswered, makes it null and void.

--The 2 combatants will meet and have a beer.

Mord.

This is going wonderfully down hill fast.

So basically in summary, it would be:

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

The only difference would be the "median" armour appearance would increase.

Then we'd get in a big circle and join hands like the Whos in Whoville, and we'd sing about peace and love.

Vladimir wrote:Events would consist of dragging dead horses out of barns and then beating them.

i'd quit.

Everyone could pean a rivet...nobody could embroider a hanky.

AriAnson wrote:Everyone could pean a rivet...nobody could embroider a hanky.

You clearly don't spend enough time over in historical.

well, if I were in charge....
the SCA would have about 10 members as the rest fled in horror, so it's probably a good thing for the lot of you I'm not SCA...

but... there would likely be about 1/10th of the rules currently in place, using rebated steel weapons instead of rattan, and with an anally retantive history fascism observing that soft and hard kit be as acurate as possible, and emphasising the proper use of western martial arts tradition, through i.33, Fiore, lichtenaur's school and his descendants (thalhofer, ringeck, etc) and into Meyer, Marozzo, Capo Fero, etc, etc.
none of these wrap shots damnit, I would be expecting to see use of full grappling, and secondary weapons. Ballock dagger in the 'nads as they go down? oh yes.

those recreating 16th century fence, or using longsword techniques with an emphasis on the thrust would be the one exception to the accuracy of equipment, as I'll grudgingly accept that a meshed exchange visor for safety is a concession to sanity on an otherwise open-faced burgeonet or cabbaset... that however does'nt apply to earlier period open helms used in predominantly cut-based combat... if you want to wear a norman nasal, learn to protect the face...

I would also open out the combat to include longsword, polearm etc, for unarmoured combat.

Oh, and visible plastic, all non-period metals (aluminium/ti/etc), pop rivets, and morions would be banned on personal grounds of taste, or a lack thereof of anyone who has them...


are'nt you glad I'm not SCA, reading that?

Suzerain wrote:well, if I were in charge....
the SCA would have about 10 members as the rest fled in horror, so it's probably a good thing for the lot of you I'm not SCA...

but... there would likely be about 1/10th of the rules currently in place, using rebated steel weapons instead of rattan, and with an anally retantive history fascism observing that soft and hard kit be as acurate as possible, and emphasising the proper use of western martial arts tradition, through i.33, Fiore, lichtenaur's school and his descendants (thalhofer, ringeck, etc) and into Meyer, Marozzo, Capo Fero, etc, etc.
none of these wrap shots damnit, I would be expecting to see use of full grappling, and secondary weapons. Ballock dagger in the 'nads as they go down? oh yes.

those recreating 16th century fence, or using longsword techniques with an emphasis on the thrust would be the one exception to the accuracy of equipment, as I'll grudgingly accept that a meshed exchange visor for safety is a concession to sanity on an otherwise open-faced burgeonet or cabbaset... that however does'nt apply to earlier period open helms used in predominantly cut-based combat... if you want to wear a norman nasal, learn to protect the face...

I would also open out the combat to include longsword, polearm etc, for unarmoured combat.

Oh, and visible plastic, all non-period metals (aluminium/ti/etc), pop rivets, and morions would be banned on personal grounds of taste, or a lack thereof of anyone who has them...


are'nt you glad I'm not SCA, reading that?

What makes you think there aren't SCA people who agree with you ?

However, I would ask you the same thing I ask them Why would you want to change the SCA into something it was never meant to be, rather than going to one of the groups already doing what you want ?

Kilkenny wrote:
What makes you think there aren't SCA people who agree with you ?

However, I would ask you the same thing I ask them Why would you want to change the SCA into something it was never meant to be, rather than going to one of the groups already doing what you want ?

apologies, I suspect a little bit of sacasm in my post was lost over the internet - a hope it was not seen as a attack on the SCA's core values, and if it was, I firmly retract the comments taken as such.

I certainly dont doubt there's a good few who are into the same approach of steel/WMA as I am - there's always a few people who've had common sense knocked out of them,after all. However, I know its a very different approach to the overall scope of the SCA, which, to my point of view is closer to a sport, in that respect. (let me emphasise - there is no "right" way in my opinion. all approaches have their merits)

likewise, to answer your second question, I would not want to change the SCA, as it's a perfectly valid take on the entire subject of western martial arts. it's just not for me - hence my "a good thing for the lot of you I'm not in the SCA" comment. (if "the lot of you" came across as derogatory of SCA as a group, can I please emphasise, that it was not intended as such.)

We are all here because in one way or another, we love history - the fascination with the arts of combat, the depths of sciences, the culture of those periods of the past. We can celebrate that shared interest, while at the same time appreciating - and sometimes laughing at, or with - those whose approach is different.

My comment was to the question "If we were the SCA, what would the fighting system be", and my reply was, in summary "It would'nt be the SCA if I were to get my grubby mitts on it - are'nt you glad I'm not mucking up the society?". Quite simply, it is the diversity of our interests which allows cross-pollination of ideas, developments; technical and academic, and social networking among all groups - the exact reason I've joined this forum, as I learn the collected wisdom of those members whose advice I value.

Hope that's cleared it up without confusion.

Sir,

I hardly think the ability to urinate a 3/4" wide piece of copper has anything to do with this thread.


Thank you,
Val

AriAnson wrote:Everyone could pean a rivet...nobody could embroider a hanky.

Suzerain wrote:

Kilkenny wrote:
What makes you think there aren't SCA people who agree with you ?

However, I would ask you the same thing I ask them Why would you want to change the SCA into something it was never meant to be, rather than going to one of the groups already doing what you want ?

apologies, I suspect a little bit of sacasm in my post was lost over the internet - a hope it was not seen as a attack on the SCA's core values, and if it was, I firmly retract the comments taken as such.

I certainly dont doubt there's a good few who are into the same approach of steel/WMA as I am - there's always a few people who've had common sense knocked out of them,after all. However, I know its a very different approach to the overall scope of the SCA, which, to my point of view is closer to a sport, in that respect. (let me emphasise - there is no "right" way in my opinion. all approaches have their merits)

likewise, to answer your second question, I would not want to change the SCA, as it's a perfectly valid take on the entire subject of western martial arts. it's just not for me - hence my "a good thing for the lot of you I'm not in the SCA" comment. (if "the lot of you" came across as derogatory of SCA as a group, can I please emphasise, that it was not intended as such.)

We are all here because in one way or another, we love history - the fascination with the arts of combat, the depths of sciences, the culture of those periods of the past. We can celebrate that shared interest, while at the same time appreciating - and sometimes laughing at, or with - those whose approach is different.

My comment was to the question "If we were the SCA, what would the fighting system be", and my reply was, in summary "It would'nt be the SCA if I were to get my grubby mitts on it - are'nt you glad I'm not mucking up the society?". Quite simply, it is the diversity of our interests which allows cross-pollination of ideas, developments; technical and academic, and social networking among all groups - the exact reason I've joined this forum, as I learn the collected wisdom of those members whose advice I value.

Hope that's cleared it up without confusion.

Thank you for the most polite post I have ever read in regards to an understanding of the differences but not superiority of any one group over another. I understand you don't "do" SCA but if we were to ever meet somewhere (since I live in Europe) I owe you a pint of whatever your having.

regards
Thorvaldr

AriAnson wrote:Everyone could pean a rivet...nobody could embroider a hanky.

Don't bet the rent check on that - I own a copy of Rosie Greers embroidery book for men

Valstarr Hawkwind wrote:Sir,

I hardly think the ability to urinate a 3/4" wide piece of copper has anything to do with this thread.

You mean this isn't about pissing contests?

Thorvaldr Skegglauss wrote:

Suzerain wrote:

Kilkenny wrote:
What makes you think there aren't SCA people who agree with you ?

However, I would ask you the same thing I ask them Why would you want to change the SCA into something it was never meant to be, rather than going to one of the groups already doing what you want ?

apologies, I suspect a little bit of sacasm in my post was lost over the internet - a hope it was not seen as a attack on the SCA's core values, and if it was, I firmly retract the comments taken as such.

I certainly dont doubt there's a good few who are into the same approach of steel/WMA as I am - there's always a few people who've had common sense knocked out of them,after all. However, I know its a very different approach to the overall scope of the SCA, which, to my point of view is closer to a sport, in that respect. (let me emphasise - there is no "right" way in my opinion. all approaches have their merits)

likewise, to answer your second question, I would not want to change the SCA, as it's a perfectly valid take on the entire subject of western martial arts. it's just not for me - hence my "a good thing for the lot of you I'm not in the SCA" comment. (if "the lot of you" came across as derogatory of SCA as a group, can I please emphasise, that it was not intended as such.)

We are all here because in one way or another, we love history - the fascination with the arts of combat, the depths of sciences, the culture of those periods of the past. We can celebrate that shared interest, while at the same time appreciating - and sometimes laughing at, or with - those whose approach is different.

My comment was to the question "If we were the SCA, what would the fighting system be", and my reply was, in summary "It would'nt be the SCA if I were to get my grubby mitts on it - are'nt you glad I'm not mucking up the society?". Quite simply, it is the diversity of our interests which allows cross-pollination of ideas, developments; technical and academic, and social networking among all groups - the exact reason I've joined this forum, as I learn the collected wisdom of those members whose advice I value.

Hope that's cleared it up without confusion.

Thank you for the most polite post I have ever read in regards to an understanding of the differences but not superiority of any one group over another. I understand you don't "do" SCA but if we were to ever meet somewhere (since I live in Europe) I owe you a pint of whatever your having.

regards
Thorvaldr

Seconded. Well done, sir.

Alex Baird wrote:

Valstarr Hawkwind wrote:Sir,

I hardly think the ability to urinate a 3/4" wide piece of copper has anything to do with this thread.

You mean this isn't about pissing contests?

Has a pissing contest been proposed?

I'd love to see documentation of the occurrence of pissing contests in period. Citations please.

Did women ever participate in pissing contests in period?

And, BTW, you're a Nazi.

audax wrote:And, BTW, you're a Nazi.

[img]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/dweorg/animated/nahtzee.gif[/img]

If its a pissing contest you want I'm in. As a diabetic I could pee professionally.
You hear people bragging about peeing their name in the snow? Feh. Amatuers.
I can piss a crop circle!

Aaron, bad thing was I was being a bit more than half serious. There are too many people on the AA that already approve of the way the SCA does combat so really it wouldn't change.

Look at all the other threads on changing one thing and people have varying opinions. The one thing we all know and follow are the rules we have now. So in the end there would be little to no change.

Who is just too old for those contests

Vebrand

Is there historical documentation for a pissing contest? And if so, would you submitted for an A&S entry?

Aaron, you are the master.

To troll and not get flamed? you have GOT to teach me how to do that.

Being Ned Fanders twin seems to come with a flame retardant suit. And I've been here since 1997 and everyone knows me as the person who should be drunk and sleeping in the corner, but can't drink...so they sympathize.

-Aaron

The only thing I don't like in SCA fighting really is fighting someone on their knees, or on my knees myself.

I don't mind 1 armed fighting really, I like single sword a lot.

"if the archive were the SCA"

Then a currently unemployed person whose highest position of responsibility previously is McDonalds "you want fries with that" guy could win Crown and tell you not only to STFU but to GTFO, and there's nothing you could do about it.

Is the peeing about distance or volume?

mordreth wrote:

AriAnson wrote:Everyone could pean a rivet...nobody could embroider a hanky.

Don't bet the rent check on that - I own a copy of Rosie Greers embroidery book for men

heh. I know who you were squired to... but does petitpoint count as embroidery ?

Isabella E wrote:Is the peeing about distance or volume?

We'll have to run it by the BoD and see if we need to add padding or an elbow cop behind the urethra.

audax wrote:

Isabella E wrote:Is the peeing about distance or volume?

We'll have to run it by the BoD and see if we need to add padding or an elbow cop behind the urethra.

The BOD would just tell you that you did not follow the proper channels and that you need to start by asking your local marshals.