I want to learn more about Polypropylene swords!

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Gentles,

I may be old fashioned, and quite illogical here, but somehow the combination of the words Sword with Polypropylene seems.. unholy, a sort of blasphemous oxymoron.

This is clearly downright silly considering that a branch of a palm-like tree is no closer to steel, but Bokken were made of wood, and it is something that feels more, natural. As I said this is not logical at all, but I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way. I can consider modern stuff for armour (if covered) but for the sword, the soul of the warrior...

Unless their use becomes mandatory, I cannot see myself using them. And then probably with the same illogical and unfounded suspicion as the first Hittite given an Iron sword to replace his trusty bronze blade....
I know I make no sense, and yet I think I do...

Glaukos the Athenian

[Sir Omarad]

They would never become mandatory, merely an additional equivalent material.
So far they have had mostly positive reviews.
The concensus seems to be that they will not revolutionize the SCA fighting world but they aren't evil either.

More data will be necessary before any final decision is made.

[Tyr Palenske]

[quote="Sir Patrick O'Malley"]
The best place to get 1.25â€

[Sir Omarad]

[quote="Tyr Palenske"][quote="Sir Patrick O'Malley"]
The best place to get 1.25â€

[Tyr Palenske]

The only approved experiment is the solid rod.

Thanks Omarad, it also has the nicer price point. Do you know of anyone who has attempted to shape the handle in anything other than round?

[Thorstenn]

I have it works nicely.

Thor.

The only approved experiment is the solid rod.

Thanks Omarad, it also has the nicer price point. Do you know of anyone who has attempted to shape the handle in anything other than round?

[Tyr Palenske]

Do you just cut and trim like you would with rattan or is there something else I would need to do?

[Sir Omarad]

The only approved experiment is the solid rod.

Thanks Omarad, it also has the nicer price point. Do you know of anyone who has attempted to shape the handle in anything other than round?

I made 6 of them to take to events with me.
I ovaled the handles using a grinder and belt sander.

[Leo Medii]

Gentles,

I may be old fashioned, and quite illogical here, but somehow the combination of the words Sword with Polypropylene seems.. unholy, a sort of blasphemous oxymoron.

This is clearly downright silly considering that a branch of a palm-like tree is no closer to steel, but Bokken were made of wood, and it is something that feels more, natural. As I said this is not logical at all, but I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way. I can consider modern stuff for armour (if covered) but for the sword, the soul of the warrior...

Unless their use becomes mandatory, I cannot see myself using them. And then probably with the same illogical and unfounded suspicion as the first Hittite given an Iron sword to replace his trusty bronze blade....
I know I make no sense, and yet I think I do...

Glaukos the Athenian

I don't know if I feel the same way as you. But I do find it ironic that we can now use plastic swords, but won't be able to use plastic armor.

[Sir Omarad]

Gentles,

I may be old fashioned, and quite illogical here, but somehow the combination of the words Sword with Polypropylene seems.. unholy, a sort of blasphemous oxymoron.

This is clearly downright silly considering that a branch of a palm-like tree is no closer to steel, but Bokken were made of wood, and it is something that feels more, natural. As I said this is not logical at all, but I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way. I can consider modern stuff for armour (if covered) but for the sword, the soul of the warrior...

Unless their use becomes mandatory, I cannot see myself using them. And then probably with the same illogical and unfounded suspicion as the first Hittite given an Iron sword to replace his trusty bronze blade....
I know I make no sense, and yet I think I do...

Glaukos the Athenian

I don't know if I feel the same way as you. But I do find it ironic that we can now use plastic swords, but won't be able to use plastic armor.

says who?
You should actually read the posts I made. I do not expect such uninformed blanket statements from you.

You must tape the swords no different than rattan.

The only armor theoretical proposal I made was to paint or cover blue barrel plastic.

[Sjolander]

Are only the 1.5" rods being tested, or would it be possible to purchase one of the 3" diameter rods and shave down the sides for a more sword-like look?

[Steve S.]

I like the idea of synthetic, plastic swords because they are (or should be) of uniform manufacture, making them easy to buy sight-unseen through the mail with no surprises.

I suspect they will last longer than rattan.

Being manufactured, dimensionally-consistent raw stock means they can be easily set up to be machined with fullers, handles, or other features.

I've never seen whale bone, but the milky-white appearance of my stick of the material reminds me of bone or horn.

Steve

[Sir Omarad]

Are only the 1.5" rods being tested, or would it be possible to purchase one of the 3" diameter rods and shave down the sides for a more sword-like look?

Only the 1.25" rods are allowed to be tested.

[Gorm]

You must tape the swords no different than rattan.

Why?

The whole purpose of the tape (to my knowledge) is to contain splinters.

My understanding is this material does not splinter.

[Steve S.]

Are only the 1.5" rods being tested, or would it be possible to purchase one of the 3" diameter rods and shave down the sides for a more sword-like look?

Baby steps, my friend. Right now it seems like the Society is open to something made of plastic that is physically nearly the same as rattan.

I hope that if this flies, molded polypropylene sword-shaped wasters might not be far behind.

Steve

[olaf haraldson]

Is this going to be a Society wide test?

Are only the 1.5" rods being tested, or would it be possible to purchase one of the 3" diameter rods and shave down the sides for a more sword-like look?

Only the 1.25" rods are allowed to be tested.

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

I have it works nicely.

Thor.

The only approved experiment is the solid rod.

Thanks Omarad, it also has the nicer price point. Do you know of anyone who has attempted to shape the handle in anything other than round?

Bring it to Gulf Wars please!! You can use it against me, I want to feel/see what it is like.

regards
ThorvaldR

[Thorstenn]

I will, the one I have seems to have about 3 times the bend of my normal rattan, it's crazy. Almost twice the weight of my normal rattan.

If your camping with Calontir, your about 50 feet from my camp in Trimaris I will have beer and food come say high.


Thor.

I have it works nicely.

Thor.

The only approved experiment is the solid rod.

Thanks Omarad, it also has the nicer price point. Do you know of anyone who has attempted to shape the handle in anything other than round?

Bring it to Gulf Wars please!! You can use it against me, I want to feel/see what it is like.

regards
ThorvaldR

[Sir Omarad]

You must tape the swords no different than rattan.

Why?

The whole purpose of the tape (to my knowledge) is to contain splinters.

My understanding is this material does not splinter.

It also must be marked with a few red and green stripes per the experimental weapons rules in teh Marshals handbook.

[Sir Omarad]

Are only the 1.5" rods being tested, or would it be possible to purchase one of the 3" diameter rods and shave down the sides for a more sword-like look?

Baby steps, my friend. Right now it seems like the Society is open to something made of plastic that is physically nearly the same as rattan.

I hope that if this flies, molded polypropylene sword-shaped wasters might not be far behind.

Steve

The weight and mechanics are very different with wider shaped pieces.
Time will tell.
Let me get this one finished and see what folks think.
So far, so good.
Cudos to Sir Patrick for talking me out of ending the experiment last year.
His data and professionalism won out over my irrational fears from past experiments.
I was not a fan until I tried the stuff.

[Sir Omarad]

I will, the one I have seems to have about 3 times the bend of my normal rattan, it's crazy. Almost twice the weight of my normal rattan.
Thor.

That's weird. The weight of the pieces I got were only 10% heavier and had almost exactly the same bend properties.

[InsaneIrish]

The weight and mechanics are very different with wider shaped pieces.
Time will tell.
Let me get this one finished and see what folks think.
So far, so good.
Cudos to Sir Patrick for talking me out of ending the experiment last year.
His data and professionalism won out over my irrational fears from past experiments.
I was not a fan until I tried the stuff.

Is there somewhere I can go and see the specs on this stuff? I assume this experiment has not been taken up by any other kingdom, but I am curious on the material.

[Sir Omarad]

The weight and mechanics are very different with wider shaped pieces.
Time will tell.
Let me get this one finished and see what folks think.
So far, so good.
Cudos to Sir Patrick for talking me out of ending the experiment last year.
His data and professionalism won out over my irrational fears from past experiments.
I was not a fan until I tried the stuff.

Is there somewhere I can go and see the specs on this stuff? I assume this experiment has not been taken up by any other kingdom, but I am curious on the material.

This is a Society level Experiment and any Kingdom earl Marshal may allow his Kingdom to participate.

Check with your KEM to see if you are allowed to do this or not.

[InsaneIrish]

This is a Society level Experiment and any Kingdom earl Marshal may allow his Kingdom to participate.

Check with your KEM to see if you are allowed to do this or not.

I'd like to take a look at the material even outside an official SCA context. Currently I don't think Calontir is particpating in this experiement. But, I would like to get a stick of this stuff anyway and see what it is like. OUTSIDE of an official SCA activity of course.

[Sir Omarad]

This is a Society level Experiment and any Kingdom earl Marshal may allow his Kingdom to participate.

Check with your KEM to see if you are allowed to do this or not.

I'd like to take a look at the material even outside an official SCA context. Currently I don't think Calontir is particpating in this experiement. But, I would like to get a stick of this stuff anyway and see what it is like. OUTSIDE of an official SCA activity of course.

Do a websearch for "Polypropylene rod"

[InsaneIrish]

Do a websearch for "Polypropylene rod"

So, this from McMaster Carr is it?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#polypropylene/=9jonk8

cool, thanks

[Sir Omarad]

Do a websearch for "Polypropylene rod"

So, this from McMaster Carr is it?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#polypropylene/=9jonk8

cool, thanks

lots of people sell it.

[olaf haraldson]

Thanks, I'll check with Master Padraig.

This is a Society level Experiment and any Kingdom earl Marshal may allow his Kingdom to participate.

Check with your KEM to see if you are allowed to do this or not.

[Gorm]

It also must be marked with a few red and green stripes per the experimental weapons rules in teh Marshals handbook.

OKay, I'll grant that, but that's hardly "No different from rattan", so again, I ask...

"Leaving aside required experimental markings, is there any reason to require tape on poly weapons?"

[Benedek]

It also must be marked with a few red and green stripes per the experimental weapons rules in teh Marshals handbook.

OKay, I'll grant that, but that's hardly "No different from rattan", so again, I ask...

"Leaving aside required experimental markings, is there any reason to require tape on poly weapons?"

I think it's just more of an "ease into it" thing. We all know how a majority of SCAdians get when someone tries to change their beloved society.

[jester]

It also must be marked with a few red and green stripes per the experimental weapons rules in teh Marshals handbook.

OKay, I'll grant that, but that's hardly "No different from rattan", so again, I ask...

"Leaving aside required experimental markings, is there any reason to require tape on poly weapons?"

Edge marking.

The experimental weapons thing is interesting to me. If I want to experiment with fighting with a baton rather than a fake sword can I spiral wrap my rattan in green and red?

[Sir Omarad]

It also must be marked with a few red and green stripes per the experimental weapons rules in teh Marshals handbook.

OKay, I'll grant that, but that's hardly "No different from rattan", so again, I ask...

"Leaving aside required experimental markings, is there any reason to require tape on poly weapons?"

Edge marking.

The experimental weapons thing is interesting to me. If I want to experiment with fighting with a baton rather than a fake sword can I spiral wrap my rattan in green and red?

No.
It is not an approved experiment.
Read the handbook. Procedures are outlined there.

[Sir Omarad]

It also must be marked with a few red and green stripes per the experimental weapons rules in teh Marshals handbook.

OKay, I'll grant that, but that's hardly "No different from rattan", so again, I ask...

"Leaving aside required experimental markings, is there any reason to require tape on poly weapons?"

I apologize. I assumed you knew why tape was on swords to begin with.
Polypropylene carries many of the same properties of rattan. One of those is the flexibility and thus, the ability to break. Another is the fact that the material is not ultra-hard and can get gouges and cuts in the surface.
Taping the material not only can mitigate the gouges and sharp edges that can follow but can also inhibit a broken blade from flying into the crowd.
I hope this answers your question.
If and when the weapon becomes legal for use society-wide the rules will be updated and circulated.

[Sir Omarad]

XVI. EXPERIMENTAL WEAPONS AND MATERIALS PROCEDURES A. Experimental Weapons and Materials

1. Before any unapproved weapon or material can be used at Society activities, a test plan and a sample of the proposed weapon or material must be submitted to and approved by the Society Marshal or a designated deputy. This plan shall include specifics on construction (e.g., materials used, how it is assembled, etc.), an outline of the test, and all restrictions that will be imposed on the test. It shall also tell how long the testperiod would be. Any samples submitted shall be returned to the submitting party no later than the conclusion of the test period, unless otherwise specified.
2. It is the prerogative of the Kingdom Earl Marshal to allow limited testing of alternate or unapprovedmaterials and weapons within a kingdom. Limited testing means the weapon or material may be used atfighter practice tourneys and in small melees, but only after all combatants and marshals have been informed the weapon or material is being tested and that it is not approved for general SCA use.
3. All combatants and marshals must consent to the use of the weapon or material before combat begins. If any of the marshals or combatants object to the use of the material or weapon, the material or weapon may not be used. All unapproved materials and weapons shall be marked with alternating bands of red andgreen tape totaling 6 inches in length. Bands shall be visible during weapon usage.
4. Once per quarter throughout the test period, the Earl Marshal will update the Society Marshal on theprogress and results of the testing. At the end of the test period, the Earl Marshal will provide the Society Marshal with a test summary. This summary shall include a list of injuries that resulted from the use of theweapon or material and any concerns from fighters and marshals recorded during the testing. The Society Marshal, after consultation with the Earls Marshal, shall determine if the weapon or material is suitable forSCA combat-related activities.

[Tyr Palenske]

Omarad, I was curious, has anyone proposed the polyrods as a substitute possibly for CA shafts? I would think that their flexibility would allow for less likelihood of breaking if stepped on. This isn't an attempt at an anti plastic or anti CA argument, I'm truly interested in trying to make CA more realistic while remaining safe.