The Armour Archive

Latest thoughts on this material:

Once again, great for practice, not so much for tourney. I watched HM Cuan bounce shot after shot off folks with a polypro sword last weekend and hardly any were taken because of the 'feel/sound'. I realized that I'm spoiled at my practice because folks are used to fighting it now and take that into account.

But I LOVE only having to make a sword once a year, when I need too (Crown, etc.) rather than every six-eight weeks because I'm brooming out rattan.

I'm still a fan.

BdeB wrote:Latest thoughts on this material:

Once again, great for practice, not so much for tourney. I watched HM Cuan bounce shot after shot off folks with a polypro sword last weekend and hardly any were taken because of the 'feel/sound'. I realized that I'm spoiled at my practice because folks are used to fighting it now and take that into account.

But I LOVE only having to make a sword once a year, when I need too (Crown, etc.) rather than every six-eight weeks because I'm brooming out rattan.

I'm still a fan.

This stuff definately has different sweet spots than rattan does, or I should say more pronounced.

This is the stick that I have been using since August 2010.

So what is the latest on this stuff?

Steve

Hit a guy in the helmet with mine a couple of weeks ago and the last four inches broke off and flew across the field. Mine was not strapping taped but had not seen very much use. Nor was the blow I threw a particularly hard one (I have certainly thrown harder with that stick).

Cuan

Any suggestions on how to work the material for shaping a grip? Rasp file? Razor Blade?

-- Grimkirk

Either.

One broke at our practice a few weeks ago. The top few inches flew off and, luckily, hit a wall rather than any of the neightbourhood kids that were watching us.

It is starting to sound like Count Jonathan's account about this stuff failing is more likely than people thought. More anecdotal evidence to pile on to the list.

Wat

I've fought with mine at about 12 practices and 2 tourneys... still going strong.

Broadway wrote:I've fought with mine at about 12 practices and 2 tourneys... still going strong.

So, how did you prep your grip? File it down and shape it, or carve it down with knife/blade? Do you use strapping tape preventatively to protect against shattering?

-- Grimkirk

Carve it just like wood, or sand or rasp. Yes, you are to construct the sword just like as with rattan. That means spiral wrapping with strapping tape, which it seems some of the reported breaks are not not using.

I made it the same way I make my rattan swords. carved the handle down, wrapped it with grip tape, threw some strapping tape on the blade, then covered with ductape and then attached the aluminum cuphilt.

grimkirk wrote:

Broadway wrote:I've fought with mine at about 12 practices and 2 tourneys... still going strong.

So, how did you prep your grip? File it down and shape it, or carve it down with knife/blade? Do you use strapping tape preventatively to protect against shattering?

-- Grimkirk

i made a sword with crossguard the same way i make a rattan one, did a few fights with it, felt just like rattan on both the giving and the recieving end of it

Apparently at ID we have had 3 broken swords now, all of them through wrap shots.

It seems like some suppliers are better than others. Out of all the sticks I have bought from McMaster-Carr, wich is about a dozen, I have only had one reported break. Ther are at least 3 sticks that I know of that have seen almost 3 years of weekly use.

B. Amos wrote:It seems like some suppliers are better than others. Out of all the sticks I have bought from McMaster-Carr, wich is about a dozen, I have only had one reported break. Ther are at least 3 sticks that I know of that have seen almost 3 years of weekly use.

West coast McMaster-Carr results are about the same. I have broken two in the last five years.
Patrick, Caid

ordered my from mcmaster-carr will get dimensions when i get off work if anyone is interested, and probably a pic

Have been using mine now for 8 weeks both heavy pell work and all my practice fighting. Very cool that I have not broken it. It is heavy as hell. I have not noticed a single person ignoring blows from it. People who ignore blows from it because they claim it has a different feel or sound to it are full of shit. It hits like a truck. It is solid and dense so it sounds like you have been hit by a truck. I cut mine down to 34" and almost entirely eliminated the "wobble" factor. In 110 degree heat it does get slightly more flexible but nothing like that old nylon crap and it does not deform permanently when bent. I am pretty happy with it.

Did I mention that it is heavy as hell? It looks like a whippy stick because it is exactly 1&1/4" but it is twice as heavy as a stick of rattan of the same proportions. Maybe even heavier. Good practice stick for sure and if you are used to the weight of it there is no reason you couldn't use it in tourney or on the war field as well.

I use mine for pell work. Granted I'm a slacker and have not put it through that many hits but it hasn't broken yet.

Steve

Can I used a polypropylene waster, now?

I wish!

Steve

yes you can, as long as its a 1.25 inch round baton

tim_Belcher wrote:yes you can, as long as its a 1.25 inch round baton

Does it have to be round or just 1.25 inches across the narrowest measurement?

1.25 inches at the narrowest.
so for the waster you might end up with a stick that if count jonathan is correct with the weight- may end up being heavier then list legal anyway, so take that into account as well as the blade dimensions.

Interesting about the weight - I wonder if the material he got is somehow different from the one Cold Steel use. I've fought with the Cold Steel wasters all through the last year and a half (not SCA) and though they can hit like a truck, the hand and a half wasters only weigh 32 oz. If I am calculating right, taking the thickness from 0.75 (at their narrowest, although they do taper up to 1 in near the hilt) to 1.25 in would only make it weigh about 3.38 lbs, which is right within the normal range for a mediaeval longsword. Unless my maths are wrong, which they very well might be.

Again, I'm not questioning Count Jonathan's experience - more so wondering if the stuff he's using is somehow different from what Cold Steel are using.

http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/92BKHN ... SWORD.aspx

EDIT: What I did was take the current mass of the waster and multiply it by 1.67 (the factor by which to go from 0.75 to 1.25) so in reality, the waster would be somewhat lighter than 3.38 lbs, since the hilt and handle presumably would not significantly increase in size when thickening the blade. I also just realised that when you say heavy, you're comparing it to rattan, not steel. I don't have any numbers on what an average rattan sword weighs.

Rattan sword weight is going to vary of course mostly dependent on user preference. Greener rattan or older dry rattan, thickness, sword length, and of course construction method all of which ignores hilt preference. From cross hilt and pommel, bar stock baskets, boat cup hilts and then the ever popular cheap and lightweight plastic cup hilts. My preference for rattan sword weight over the years was between 2.25 to 2.5 lbs. at 36” with a steel bar stock basket. Anything heavier felt awkward off balance and hard on the shoulder for me.

In contrast this polypro stick seems a better simulator weight wise to steel at 34” weighing in at 3.5lbs. I do have a 14G stainless boat cup style basket on it though which adds significant weight but superior balance. Certainly a plastic cup hilt would reduce the weight significantly but the sword would be far more tip heavy which may or may not be a good thing depending on one’s preferred fighting style.

After 20 years of fighting adding an additional pound to your sword weight is kind of a big deal. It doesn’t sound like much but the change is quite dramatic. For those who have always preferred a heavier stick the change would be less noticeable. The biggest factors would likely be vibration and wobble and the slender profile which allows one to hit smaller gaps than a thicker heavier stick.
When fighting the best of the best this gap difference is more significant than some might think.

ZOMBIE THREAD!!!

Just an update:
Count Amos's poly stick finally broke last week after 4.5 years of constant use. Mine is from the same batch and still going strong (however I lost several months to back surgery and started using the stick a few months after Amos...so call that 4 years.)

Evidently these are now legal at the Society level. Meridies does not allow them.

Steve

Still using mine.

Mine is holding up strong too... been in consistent use for the last four months. Previously to that, it saw inconsistant use for about a year or so.

Another broken one in west dragonshire in ID.

Flat snap to the head turned into a flat snap to the wall about 10' away. I am very glad thre was no one standing there!!!

Just re-taped mine for the four or fifth time. Still going strong after 4.5 years. I expect it to break soon..no big inclusions or anything just a gut feeling.

Mine has been going hardcore for quite some time now. I use it every practice.

This is slightly weird, we have had two break in our shire and there are only about half a dozen active fighters.
This seems quite far above what looks like the average.