The Armour Archive

I have a question about using shields to charge and push into enemy lines...
I was taught/am being taught, that you hit the enemy lines as hard as you can with your shield, and that if an enemy wants to fight with you in the charge, you raise your shield and take him with you wherever the charge is going. But I have noticed on this board that alot of people dont like that. Now I dont fight much, am fairly new to the sca, and dont even have armour right now, but I would like to know what the right thing to do would be on the battle field. And if pushing as hard as you can is not allowed/looked down upon, why is that? Is it a safty concern? Thanks.

Standard practice in my neck of the woods..

as it is in mine....

I am puzzled...

DUring a charge you should be tryng to go through your enemies line not hitting shield to shield.
Shoot the gaps

ok i can understand in a tourney nobody wants to be shield bashed.
but coming from the viewpoint of someone who has spent the last 12 yrs in a heavy shieldwall unit,its par for the course.
why else would there be a charge?
just to pull up short so as not to offend your oponent.
or is the whole point of the game to kill them before they kill you.
many many many of our standard maneuvers are designed with this in mind.
disrupt their line (if not obliterate it)
keep your enemy off balance,and gain the advantage.
maybe what your hearing is mainly about tourneys? i could be wrong,
maybe the problem is a kingdom rule some where?
but where i come from its all good.

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se fray stent feste !

I dont think I got your meaning but let me try and see if im on spot.

your being taught to charge into shieldmen and push them back?

nothing wrong with that.... Id like to point out a few things though relating to it.
Not all regions allow Full run charges, check to make sure your does by asking a marshal. Generally Charges are to break through enemy lines and wreak havoc in the back and on the way through not smack into the guy in the front row and push him around like a plow.

Personally, when I see a guy charging for me I squat down a bit and slide him off my shield to my sword side and give him a shot right across the thighs while he passes. to prevent that from happening dont bring your shield high and run standing up, squat down and Arrow your shield and sword (aka put the tip of your sword on the corner of your shield and spear into the gaps, as you pass through dip your sword tip behind your back... that will save your back from taking a shot while you break through)

I don`t see a problem with it in meelees at all. Isn`t that kind of the point of a breakthrough? In tourneys....well, I don`t think there are any rules against it but....
That being said, I have on at least one occasion done that to someone in a plateau tourney. Part of the rules were if someone stepped out of bounds they lost. I was fighting a huge (about 250lbs before armour) knight, and couldn`t get a hit in on him. He wasn`t getting one on Me either tho. At a critical moment ( I was getting tired, and he was kind of close to the edge) I bum-rushed him with all my at the time 130lbs before armor. It worked, and off he went!
He told Me later that He was so supprised that a small newbie like Me even tried that, that He was caught complety unprepared!
I would not recomend it as a general practice tho.
John

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"and the springfieldians heroicly slaughtered there enemys while they prayed for mercy!"

There are some tourney fighting techniques, while not exactly a charge and push involve basically pushing their shield out of the way. I have never heard of anyone having a problem with these either.

The only problem I know of is that many shieldmen who charges get invinceable, they won't take a blow untill they are through the line. No matter the beating.

At this Pennsic there was several times that I slide charges of my shield and bashed them in the head, back and legs, often repetedly, and they just wont take a blow.... Head down, shield up and running - I wont breake for nothing attitude. To common in shieldsharges IMHO.

Apart from that, no problem.
Sca rules states:
"A shield may be used to displace, deflect, or immobilize an opponent’s shield or weapon, so long
as such use does not endanger the safety of the combatants. Deliberately striking an opponent’s
head, limbs, or body with a shield is forbidden, unless that shield is designed for use as a weapon,
and is approved by the Kingdom Marshallate."

maybe I'm just reading some stuff wrong. I posted this after reading through the thread entitled "disturbing trends" and noticed that some people didnt like the full on charge. maybe I just misunderstood.

I am completely in favor of the full on charge, as long as you dont have bones being broken and people getting thier heads stood on during the fighting. I was just thinking that maybe in the SCA we dont actually try and represent an actual battle scenario, but a mock battle/tourney from the past, and we tried to keep things chivalrouse or something. If thats not the case, I am more than happy to take/give a charge. (besides the fact that I dont have armour now, and will fight with a pole axe when I get my armour finished)

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My Homepage

Gabriel's quote from the Marshallate rules is the point here. You can slam into someone pretty damn hard with no ill feelings in a war as long as you hit their SHEILD!
I personally have taken the thundering rhino wall bashing charge when I did NOT have a shield; bruised ribs, and several minutes of extreme concern by the marshalls and medics until they could ascertain that I could breath on my own. Needless to say, I was out for the weekend and was quite pissed.
The incident was settled to everyone's satisfaction, it had not been deliberate, but this sort of thing is what can give the slam a bad name.


Alail

Full-run charges are what I have a problem with. Plus, if you check me so hard that my own shield bashes my grille into my face...
-Vitus

Hailsa,

The best way to evaluate a charge is not speed, but the control of the charger. It is a rule in the SCA that fighters must maintain control... of temper, weapons, themselves... If someone charges at high speed and crashes a line that is fine, but if they are running to fast to maintain control, or they are falling all over the pikers, they are out of control, and dangerous.

In a situation like Horsefriend, it is rediculous to full charge over a polearm fighter, you can not touch them with your shield. (Obviously you have to rush polearm fighters, but always under control.)

As a Senior Marshal, I have had to mention this to fighters a number of times. Rushing a shield wall is often encouraged, but sometimes people get over excited, and rush to hard and out of control.

When rushing also there is a tendency to ignore shots. This is true, as the excitement levels, and adrenaline are very high. You are crashing and smashing, and it is can be dificult to distinguish between a clean hit, and the various bodies, equiptment, or weapons banging into you. I think the best way to deal with a charging rhino is to halt their forward momentum then hit them several times. Don't make the mistake of thinking your shot was good and then ignore the guy to engage another. He will stand up behind your line and reek havoc. Be sure that he is engaged and dead.

All in all, I say go for it! Hit hard, and try to get into the back field. The goal is not to push a guy down, but to pass. Rushing a wall is a thrill BUT, be safe, sensable, and under control.

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Heera Orin Rasmussen inn óði af Halogaland.

In Drachenwald we have "three step" charges.
Only three step full speed. Works pretty fine, you never get to that speed where you lose controll, but can smash a shieldwall pretty good

ive fought under the three step charge rule and personaly found it way to restrictive.
when we charge(my unit that is) we charge en mass.as a unit.
have youever tried coordinating a charge when allowed just three steps.
now we also dont just go barreling off in the general direction of the enemy and hope to smash something to bits.
when we charge it is for a very deliberate reason. to punch a hole somewhere in the enemy wall.and to get as much of our army through said hole.
personaly i dont think you can get enough momentum to punch through a skirmish unit let alone a shield wall in just three steps.


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se fray stent feste !

Fraygod, the three step charge means that only the last three steps are at full speed - running as fast as you can. That doesn't mean you have to walk the rest of the way, it only means that you can't run as fast as you can all the time.
When your unit charges, do you run as fast as you can all the way? I don't think so. Running as fast as possible don't give much control when it comes to maneuver.

Yes I have coordinated three step charges many times, work fine. Usually we are jogging most of the way to maneuver and when close enough to the target we charge full speed - gives plenty of momentum.

Regards Gabriel