The Armour Archive

I'm interested in fighting with a round shield and thrusting spear, and also interested to see if anyone has any suggestion like, shield, spear size etc.. and if anyone has fought in this style or has fought against it. It is not for sca use, but it is a thrusting spear and will not be used for throwing.
Marcellus
Wow, I just relized I'm an archive member now.

[This message has been edited by Marcellus (edited 10-03-2001).]

i;ve been known to dabble in it a bit, asked teh same question actuially.

i ended up using a centergrip oval, it's about a foot and a half wide and about 3 feet tall.
for the spear i use one about 6 feet long, hold it near the center but juts below the balance point, and hold it low, armound waist hight, thrist yupwards and around from the side and every so ofetn let it slide out of our had a bit, it really surprises people when your spear gets a 2 feet longer all of a sudden.



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What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee:

I've done it in the past, when trying to get in touch with an earlier fighting style. I've done the 30" round with 7 1/2 foot spear. I do agree that Tybolt's suggestion of a 6 foot spear might be better, although I had excellent luck with the longer spear.

Tybolt has it just about perfect. Hold the spear in the roman manner, about waist height with your palm torwards your body. Keep the spear close to your shield, don't let your arm drift out (it'll end up getting hit a lot.) Hold just down from the balance point (torwards the butt end), but not more than about 6" away from the balance point. Be prepared to quickly choke up on the spear when your opponent rushes in; use it as a long handled thrusting dagger, and strike from high, over your opponents shield. At distance, you'll find that leg blows and face thrusts are your bread and butter, but don't ignore thrusts to their arms and body. It's amazing what you will be able to get through their guard. Also practice being able to throw accurate shots while moving backwards at speed; you'll be doing that a lot.

It's a fun style, and I enjoyed myself quite a bit when using it. However, it won't win tourneys the way S&S will, which is unfortunate.


Frederich

So, neither of you recommend fighting with the spear over-hand, next to your face? I'd like to take up this style as well, but holding the spear up by my head I get exhausted with two or three thrusts.

Hmmm, I fight spear and shield for some melees and find that holding the spear with my hand up near my shoulder is the easiest and most effective. Most fighters hold it the way Tybolt and Frederich described, but as a madu fighter, the other position seemed more natural to me. If my arm gets tired I'll rest the spear on my shield, or let the point drop and hold it more like a madu. The key to good spear fighting is mastery of range and point control. You must be able to gig your opponet while they close and you backpedal or circle, maintainig your range advantage. you must be able to quickly get your point back in line when your opponet slips it to one side or tries to control it with thier shield. Think more like a poleman. less like a shieldman.
Slainte,
Fearghus

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"How long will we fight? We will fight until hell freezes
over. Then we fight on the ice."
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The low position offers mostly thrusts to the belly, easily blocked by dropping the shield. The high position offers thrusts to the head, neck and shoulder. To block these thrusts, the opponent must raise the shield=more work.

In Regia Anglorum, the shield is often held by the guige strap through the left hand, which also helps the right hand hold the spear. Hard to describe. Basically they hold the spear two-handed whie also using a shield. To top this off, sometimes they also carry a seax in the right hand along with the spear, for instant close-range action. Juggle that!

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Baldurstrand

Some interesting ideas and very usefull info. I think I will start on a six foot spear and oval shield, since I'm used to fighting with a heater and not a round. Does anyone counter balance their spears, or does it not make that much difference with a spear that is only six feet? Great info, thanks.
Marcellus

The spear doesn't need a counter balance, you need a fairly evenly balanced spear to easily and speedily use it.

I did forget to talk about the overhand grip. I exclusively use overhand for fighting legged opponents; it's the most effective angle of attack for that.

I will admit that I've never used this style in melee combat, only one-on-one, which is probably a mistake on my part. I'd think that an overhand grip might be more effective in a melee (unless you are acting as line anchor), as an underhand grip would get in the way of the shieldwall, but I will defer to those who have actually tried it.


Frederich

From my experience in using a 1 handed spear in SCA styled combat it is fairly useless. Because there is no real point which sticks to(and into) an opponent the tip just slides of normally. Secondly, a quick snap to your spearhead and the spear is displaced massively leaving you struggling to recover it. While a spear in reality is extremely deadly, in the SCA it's effectiveness is reuced to 2 handed use only.

But, in the lengthy experimentations we did with it we found it to be best used overhand with arm cocked to deliver a powerful thrust. Almost always on engaging an opposing shield wall the angle and level of the spear was ideal for spearing your opponent to the left right in the head/upper torso on their sword side(lefties excluded). We realized it to be a very good attack with a real spear but the giant "qtips" of the sca just don't translate too well.

Paladin
Thank you very much for your comments, and I also believe that the in the sca a one handed spear is very hard to be effective with in a melee. I was thinking of using it in a light touch and you wounded/dead scenario that I do with a non sca group of about 12 guys, mostly in college. Some of us have enough armour to do sca heavy combat style, but not everyone so we run these type of scenarios often. The info here has been very helpful.
Marcellus

I wonder if a spear tip could be altered so as to be more effective, this may be something of a sticking point [sic].

Could a spear have a softer, slightly wedge-shaped tip? Not such as to penetrate a bargrill, but something 90 deg. or greater.

Or some sort of two sided tape that won't pick up lint or dust.

Perhaps a flexible magnet taped over the padding! Rather like those mechanic's tools for retrieving fallen bolts! Ha!

More on the original topic, there are several folks here in the Outlands who use one handed spears. The Huns, a household here, has begun using spear & large shield almost exclusively for melee.

A couple people use sword & spear, much like a madu. It can be very effective, but it hasn't quite caught on yet. I would personally like to use a spear/polearm, two handed, which a shield on a guige strap. I just don't know how that would fit within the rules of the game - does it count as armour, or a shield? Could it be considered unsafe?

Someone posted this on a madu thread. I think you should read it, as I am right now.

http://www.thehaca.com/Manuals/Gladiatorie/Gladiatorie.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paladin:
From my experience in using a 1 handed spear in SCA styled combat it is fairly useless.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find I have to disagree with this. One of my buds fights huge round shield and spear exclusivly. On a good day he is damn annoying to face regaardless of your weapons style. I think most fighters don't put forth the effort needed to become accomplised spear fighters. It's not an easy style to becoome a badass with, you really have to work at it. But when your in the groove it is quite effective, though it helps if you can turn your arm into a semi-pneumatic device.

OK, I'm bumping this thread because I just finished building a six-footer which I plan on using with a shield at wars this summer. I've played with it a bit, and was just wondering of anyone had anything else to add. It's difficult so far, but I can see myself really growing to love it.

Broðir

with shields...if a shield is permanently attached to your armour it becomes armour..
therby loosing its SCA style invulnerability...
if it is strapped on it stays a shield.

I plan on trying short spear and shield this summer...
it sounds like fun.

Sarnac, problem is, isn't that how armour is put on.... by strapping it? (just picking nits)

I use to have a buddy that fought spear in melee. Did a great job, saw him take more than one tourney with it. must of been an 8 footer (IIRC) and he used a small oval buckler with a punch thrust tip on it (illegal now unfortunatly) He was truely frightening with it, regardless of what style he went against.

J

The strapping must include a strap through the hand according to all of the interpretations I've heard. My experience is mostly fighting 2 handed spear with a lance rest cut out. At the Pennsic Castle Battle it was impossible to work underhanded over the wall so I switched to a 1 handed overhand grip with a 9 foot spear. It worked much better than I thought it would. I held it at the balance point and often let it slide out even to full length. I got a couple of kills with it. Even more fun was the horror in the eyes of the guys who poped up for the "perfect" target and hit nothing but heater when they thought they had an open spearman.

Theodore