I have engaged in dozens of hours of well-informed discussions about these things and it was all piss down the drain.
People can justify anything.
-Vitus
calibration
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Vitus von Atzinger
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Ulrich
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vitus:
<B>
People can justify anything.
-Vitus</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
-V,
thats probably the most accurate post in this thread thus far.
----
Rhys' (with respect)
I'm sorry you feel the way you do. but I was hoestly trying to gain some understanding of how you think we can do that safely...but in the end your reaction was much like others i've talked to about this who have your stance.
If MY (your) force level is too much for you (me), add armor till its not.
unfortunatly that equates to I get to hit as hard as I want, if it injures you, its your fault for not wearing enough armor.
the concept of taking shots on par with what you throw equates to. I take at the level I give at. which translates to someone saying: "Any shots that aren't as hard as mine are light." i.e. as long as that person at the top of the force level they don't have to take anything.
unfortunatly these are also the justifications used by those people who are thuggish and thick. (I'm not saying your thuggish and thick, I don't know you from adam off this board. I'm saying its the same justification.)
when asked how we can do this safely, you point out...add enough armor it doesnt do anything more to you than a bruise. which just makes a loop back to "if i'm hitting you to hard add more armor." then when i try to get you to pinpoint an actual level you gave up on trying to explain it.
if the true explinataion is we should all be fighting at the level of dukes. Then well we'd all be dukes wouldn't we? while a noble goal (for the most part) its simply not realistic. there is a reason superdukes are superdukes, they play on another level than the rest of us, (like auto's equating pro football players to highschool/college players) yet we may strive to reach that level at somepoint. We've a journey to make before we get there.
It seems that most people here think the force levels you advocate are too high, and taking at that level is too high as well. yet every time someone questions or challenges you on the subject, they "misunderstood you". (if everyone is misunderstanding perhaps the message or idea isn't as clear to us as it is to you.) yet you seem to be willing to entertain no other opinions on the matter so much like you, I'm now done with this thread. I'm sorry we couldn't come to a better understanding I was honestly making an attempt.
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Hjalmr,
back to your original question (its been answered several ways choose one for you.) to your last post; your reputation much like your honor is in your hands, do with it what you will.
in the end if the populous, your peers and the Peers in your area think your missing shots, they'll talk to you. please listen to them if they do. I just hope your reputation isn't already ruined when that happens.
Ulrich
if it looks like a duck
walks like a duck
and quacks like a duck
it must be a duck.
[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 02-19-2002).]
<B>
People can justify anything.
-Vitus</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
-V,
thats probably the most accurate post in this thread thus far.
----
Rhys' (with respect)
I'm sorry you feel the way you do. but I was hoestly trying to gain some understanding of how you think we can do that safely...but in the end your reaction was much like others i've talked to about this who have your stance.
If MY (your) force level is too much for you (me), add armor till its not.
unfortunatly that equates to I get to hit as hard as I want, if it injures you, its your fault for not wearing enough armor.
the concept of taking shots on par with what you throw equates to. I take at the level I give at. which translates to someone saying: "Any shots that aren't as hard as mine are light." i.e. as long as that person at the top of the force level they don't have to take anything.
unfortunatly these are also the justifications used by those people who are thuggish and thick. (I'm not saying your thuggish and thick, I don't know you from adam off this board. I'm saying its the same justification.)
when asked how we can do this safely, you point out...add enough armor it doesnt do anything more to you than a bruise. which just makes a loop back to "if i'm hitting you to hard add more armor." then when i try to get you to pinpoint an actual level you gave up on trying to explain it.
if the true explinataion is we should all be fighting at the level of dukes. Then well we'd all be dukes wouldn't we? while a noble goal (for the most part) its simply not realistic. there is a reason superdukes are superdukes, they play on another level than the rest of us, (like auto's equating pro football players to highschool/college players) yet we may strive to reach that level at somepoint. We've a journey to make before we get there.
It seems that most people here think the force levels you advocate are too high, and taking at that level is too high as well. yet every time someone questions or challenges you on the subject, they "misunderstood you". (if everyone is misunderstanding perhaps the message or idea isn't as clear to us as it is to you.) yet you seem to be willing to entertain no other opinions on the matter so much like you, I'm now done with this thread. I'm sorry we couldn't come to a better understanding I was honestly making an attempt.
----
Hjalmr,
back to your original question (its been answered several ways choose one for you.) to your last post; your reputation much like your honor is in your hands, do with it what you will.
in the end if the populous, your peers and the Peers in your area think your missing shots, they'll talk to you. please listen to them if they do. I just hope your reputation isn't already ruined when that happens.
Ulrich
if it looks like a duck
walks like a duck
and quacks like a duck
it must be a duck.
[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 02-19-2002).]
well, here is my 3 cents.
SCA uses rattan, why? the ash we used messes things up real bad. SCA used ash why? The dull steel that ren tourniment co. and others still use requires a lot more armour to be safe, and in lue of tht , it realy messes things up bad. The last option left, why do we not use sharps? I think that one is self explanitory. Not even the psycotic touniment co that lady armsmear fights in does that.( sorry if your reading but you are nuts! ) so why do we need to up things till we hurt each other when the toys got down graded to avoid this?
cent # 2 Look at the maces from the makijiwaski ( sp?) bible. looks 'bout like what we fight with almost.
cent # 3 I have taken powerfull shots to the sturnum with a del tin( by the way they are much heavier then period blades. look at an atrim) the shot but a little crease in my armour but nothing like what rattan does.
SCA uses rattan, why? the ash we used messes things up real bad. SCA used ash why? The dull steel that ren tourniment co. and others still use requires a lot more armour to be safe, and in lue of tht , it realy messes things up bad. The last option left, why do we not use sharps? I think that one is self explanitory. Not even the psycotic touniment co that lady armsmear fights in does that.( sorry if your reading but you are nuts! ) so why do we need to up things till we hurt each other when the toys got down graded to avoid this?
cent # 2 Look at the maces from the makijiwaski ( sp?) bible. looks 'bout like what we fight with almost.
cent # 3 I have taken powerfull shots to the sturnum with a del tin( by the way they are much heavier then period blades. look at an atrim) the shot but a little crease in my armour but nothing like what rattan does.
Ulrich:
This is the whole reason I posted this thread -I have been told by the elite fighters that I take blows to lightly, unclean, etc.
As you said, if i have a problem -I'm sure several people will let me know. I do plan on telling my opponents ahead of time (in tournements) that I am taking harder/solider shots then normal and to plant one on me if they can. Hopefully no problems will arise with my up front honesty.
(^_^)
This is the whole reason I posted this thread -I have been told by the elite fighters that I take blows to lightly, unclean, etc.
As you said, if i have a problem -I'm sure several people will let me know. I do plan on telling my opponents ahead of time (in tournements) that I am taking harder/solider shots then normal and to plant one on me if they can. Hopefully no problems will arise with my up front honesty.
(^_^)
V -- only dozens of hours? Man, you've got -years- to go *eg*!! Seriously, if you have input that has not already been offered, there are many here who might benefit from your insight. Remember, you don't have to respond to any critiques your post might draw ("I'm sorry, I can't hear you!!")...
Hjalmr -- Your "conclusive" post that you will push your calibration to "stout" is probably one of the saddest thing I've ever heard. Perhaps I misunderstand you, but the idea is not to be the hardest or the lightest, but to establish an understanding with your opponent that is acceptable to both of you. This is a difficult lesson, especially if you have other objectives distracting your attention (winning specific tournaments, getting a belt). The real test of your success is whether, over time, you earn the reputation of being a "fun" fight by the other fighters. Rhinos and "lighters" (new term!) are usually not fun.
Our fighting -depends- on our opponent to a degree unknown in any other sport. Setting your calibration according to what you think you need to prove is selfish and in desperate need of a vowel. Try fighting according to what your opponent needs to test their honor in a reasonable and 'safe' martial environment. You might discover it's not nearly as hard as it sounds, and the rewards -- lifelong friendships and your peers admiration and respect -- are, IMnsHO, more important than any brass hat or strip of white leather can ever be.
-cheval-
[This message has been edited by cheval (edited 02-19-2002).]
Hjalmr -- Your "conclusive" post that you will push your calibration to "stout" is probably one of the saddest thing I've ever heard. Perhaps I misunderstand you, but the idea is not to be the hardest or the lightest, but to establish an understanding with your opponent that is acceptable to both of you. This is a difficult lesson, especially if you have other objectives distracting your attention (winning specific tournaments, getting a belt). The real test of your success is whether, over time, you earn the reputation of being a "fun" fight by the other fighters. Rhinos and "lighters" (new term!) are usually not fun.
Our fighting -depends- on our opponent to a degree unknown in any other sport. Setting your calibration according to what you think you need to prove is selfish and in desperate need of a vowel. Try fighting according to what your opponent needs to test their honor in a reasonable and 'safe' martial environment. You might discover it's not nearly as hard as it sounds, and the rewards -- lifelong friendships and your peers admiration and respect -- are, IMnsHO, more important than any brass hat or strip of white leather can ever be.
-cheval-
[This message has been edited by cheval (edited 02-19-2002).]
cheval:
According to how I interpret your definition, I would currently be a "lighter"
as I take way to light of a hit -as least so I'm told. I'm not saying that I'm gpoing to Rhino my way around the SCA, just that I'm going to try accepting a more solid (not necessarily harder) blow from my opponent.
(^_^)
According to how I interpret your definition, I would currently be a "lighter"
as I take way to light of a hit -as least so I'm told. I'm not saying that I'm gpoing to Rhino my way around the SCA, just that I'm going to try accepting a more solid (not necessarily harder) blow from my opponent.
(^_^)
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Rorik Galbraith
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by hjalmr:
<B>cheval:
According to how I interpret your definition, I would currently be a "lighter"
as I take way to light of a hit -as least so I'm told. I'm not saying that I'm gpoing to Rhino my way around the SCA, just that I'm going to try accepting a more solid (not necessarily harder) blow from my opponent.
(^_^)</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haljmr, I would suggest this method instead...if you get hit by a blow and you DON'T want to be hit like that again.....take the bloody thing. If it is too light for your opponents liking...they will tell you and you can explain that it was way good enough for you. I have yet to have this argument poo poo'd by anyone. After all....it is your body and your pain threshold eh?
------------------
An oath, like an arrow, can not be recalled once loosed....think well before uttering such bindings and then stand fast to them.
<B>cheval:
According to how I interpret your definition, I would currently be a "lighter"
as I take way to light of a hit -as least so I'm told. I'm not saying that I'm gpoing to Rhino my way around the SCA, just that I'm going to try accepting a more solid (not necessarily harder) blow from my opponent.
(^_^)</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haljmr, I would suggest this method instead...if you get hit by a blow and you DON'T want to be hit like that again.....take the bloody thing. If it is too light for your opponents liking...they will tell you and you can explain that it was way good enough for you. I have yet to have this argument poo poo'd by anyone. After all....it is your body and your pain threshold eh?
------------------
An oath, like an arrow, can not be recalled once loosed....think well before uttering such bindings and then stand fast to them.
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Vitus von Atzinger
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Otto von Teich
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Otto von Teich
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Otto von Teich
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I cant seem to get my witty pesponse to post, but I'll try one moe time. We shouldnt need guns.To do this right,the bout should end when one of the combatants[A]begs for mercy [B] rolls on the ground screaming or [c] just lies on the ground motionless. I would optfor choice A before it got to the point of B or C......Ottoman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SyrRhys:
Sorry, but Michael takes as hard as he gives and vice versa; how is this cheating? </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But it is cheating. If the group, PTB, we, say a good blow is force 5. And Michael throws a force 8 shot and only takes a force 8 or higher shot. He is cheating.
Now if he throwing a force 8 shot but taking a force 5 shot; he not cheating but why is he throwing a force 8?
Just because he can take as good as gives does not mean he is not cheating. He just being fair when he cheats.
------------------
If Hollywood did the 20th Century like the middle ages;
Pappy Boyington would be fighting the Red Baron, over the trenches of Iran.
Howard Cosell and Snoopy would be the ace reporters in the Gulf war.
Sorry, but Michael takes as hard as he gives and vice versa; how is this cheating? </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But it is cheating. If the group, PTB, we, say a good blow is force 5. And Michael throws a force 8 shot and only takes a force 8 or higher shot. He is cheating.
Now if he throwing a force 8 shot but taking a force 5 shot; he not cheating but why is he throwing a force 8?
Just because he can take as good as gives does not mean he is not cheating. He just being fair when he cheats.
------------------
If Hollywood did the 20th Century like the middle ages;
Pappy Boyington would be fighting the Red Baron, over the trenches of Iran.
Howard Cosell and Snoopy would be the ace reporters in the Gulf war.
Absolutely.
A fighter is required to abide by SCA guidelines, not the other way around.
If the standards of force used by the majority aren't good enough for you, then I would suggest that it is the INDIVIDUALS duty to change their calibration, not have everyone in the SCA step up to their force levels.
Sorry if that busts someones bubble, but..........
The SCA isn't about the top 5% doing whatever the hell they want, just because they want to.
VvS
A fighter is required to abide by SCA guidelines, not the other way around.
If the standards of force used by the majority aren't good enough for you, then I would suggest that it is the INDIVIDUALS duty to change their calibration, not have everyone in the SCA step up to their force levels.
Sorry if that busts someones bubble, but..........
The SCA isn't about the top 5% doing whatever the hell they want, just because they want to.
VvS
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Vitus von Atzinger
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Vermin-
It's not even the top 5%, dude. Any handful of individuals who are so self-centered that they insist that the other 19,999 members of the fighting population play their way...that is just not cool.
There are TONS of dangerous monsters who know how to find the middle ground. How many famous jerks are there out there? 5? 10? Are we going to say that these ten guys are the only talented fighters in the Known World? There are people out there showing gentlemanly restraint- and they still win fights!!! Almost ALL the fights!
Rhys does not hit too hard, or require an unreasonable blow. Trust me. Does he think that the majority of SCAdians could turn it up a notch? Yes- this is what he is saying.
Talking about Duke Michael is another kettle of fish. Sorry.
-Vitus
It's not even the top 5%, dude. Any handful of individuals who are so self-centered that they insist that the other 19,999 members of the fighting population play their way...that is just not cool.
There are TONS of dangerous monsters who know how to find the middle ground. How many famous jerks are there out there? 5? 10? Are we going to say that these ten guys are the only talented fighters in the Known World? There are people out there showing gentlemanly restraint- and they still win fights!!! Almost ALL the fights!
Rhys does not hit too hard, or require an unreasonable blow. Trust me. Does he think that the majority of SCAdians could turn it up a notch? Yes- this is what he is saying.
Talking about Duke Michael is another kettle of fish. Sorry.
-Vitus
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SyrRhys
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vermin:
<B>"Rhys does not hit too hard, or require an unreasonable blow. Trust me. "
I agree.
I've known Rhys for about 9 years....
We're both from Eisental.
He's a psuedo "uncle" of mine......
V</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn't know that! What's your SCA name?
------------------
Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"
<B>"Rhys does not hit too hard, or require an unreasonable blow. Trust me. "
I agree.
I've known Rhys for about 9 years....
We're both from Eisental.
He's a psuedo "uncle" of mine......
V</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn't know that! What's your SCA name?
------------------
Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"