The Armour Archive

So heres the deal. I havn`t been to war in over a decade, and last time I was there, it was very much a live hand to mouth situation on my own.
Also the last time I was there, there were the three main battles on the last weekend, with other things happening through the last week. I made it for the last three days.
Also, also, My wife, who is not really SCA oriented will be coming too. We will be bringing our daughter who will be two at the time.
My best freind Auto is also coming back to the SCA after almost a decade, and his wife who will be fighting and there nine year old son will be there too. We will be camping together, but we are working on finding a larger group for us all to camp with.
Now my questions;
I was wondering if anyone has a general rundown of a shedule of events for Pennsic so I can plan when we should get there. We have about a week to play with, but we have some non-SCA things we want to do with that week off too. I really want to fight in the Castle battle, woods battle, and field battle. I have a crossbow arriving today and I will want to participate in target archery too. I don`t know what other battles there are going to be or when any of them are, so I need that info to plan.
Also, I would like advice from anyone who has done this with a toddler. This is virgin territory for us and we don`t know what to expect, bring, plan for ect. And obiously, we need to camp somewhere child friendly, but me and Auto are working on this.
Also Also, I want this to be a good experience for my wife. As I said, she isn`t much into the SCA (after ten years of trying, I am just now finaly getting her to try participating.)Any advice for making Pennsic more fun for the non-SCA oriented who is finaly checking it out?
Also, also, also, From the pics we have seen on websites, seems there are a lot more tents with a period flavor than last time I was there. We are trying to afford a wall tent, but if we can`t swing it, how out of place will we be with a big ol` nylon land pimple? We have some camping stuff too, but mostly modern stuff (folding chairs, folding tables ect.) again, how much will we stand out. We have limited funds to play with and I need to get pretty much everything, including garb for three. What should our prioritys be?
BTW, we are planning on making at least one day trip event, one camping event without baby, and one with baby before war so we will have a bit of a clue before we have to settle in for several days of Pennsic.
I look foward to all suggestions and advice that y`all can give. I can really use it.
Thanks in advance
John

Last year there was a Pennsic website. Having changed computers a few times, I've lost the link, but you can probably get it from the Midrealm or East Kingdom site.

With baby, plan for a lot of extra water and diapers.

Thanks Hush, I have checked the website but it is very sparse yet. Not a lot of help yet.
If I figure about how many diapers she goes through in a week and bring double that, you think that`ll be enough? Also what about stollers, playpens, toys, Elmo dolls, other modern baby essentials?
Thanks!
John

besides pennsicwar.org, you could check out pennsic.net for less official, but no less useful, info...

if you get to pennsic maybe friday or saturday, you'll get the major battles and activities... i don't have children yet(hoping to), but my friends who do, occaissonally take the kids off site to give them some alternatives; lake muraine for swimming and boating, mcconnell's mill to walk through the woods and see a mill... you can take them to the movies in newcastle... plus, there are several organized children's activities at pennsic, and a playground... also, set up a seperate shade tent in camp for your kids, with a kiddie fence if needed...
you can always pick up more kid supplies at the mega-wallmart...near the the home depot, country buffet, liquor/beer store, etc...
good luck, i bet your kids have loads of fun!
bela (camping in E01, house kaffa)

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lord bela ot kaffa,
squire to Baron Sir Fum,
member of House Kaffa
resident of the Eastern Kingdom and Bhakail

Only people without children will complain about the baby stuff. Bring whatever she needs to stay warm at night and cool in the daytime. Remember, she will fuss, just accept it and camp with people who understand. She will also do her darnedest to give you gray hair by wandering away, trying to play with all the pretty toys (y'know, fire, sharp knives, whatever was on top of that table she had to knock over to get at) and generally being baby. I suggest leading strings (i.e., a harness and leash). You know how fast those little legs can move. Find people to baby sit if you're going to be the least bit distracted, even if she's asleep(Me?). I can't tell you how many little ones have just danced up to me in Merchant's row when their parents were sure they were "right here".

Wet wipes are your friend, but still no substitute for soap and water. Bring all her meds, even if she doesn't need them. Her appetite will be off. Don't give her Pennsic water.

My wife and I brought my daughter when she was 10 months old...it was great.
We had the best time.
granted we couldnt party til dawn but we had a wonderful time.
Sunblock for the little one and shade to sit under...
some warm clothes for evening and extras for when it rains...
Also... if it is as hot as last year...a small inflatable pool is priceless... great for cooling off hot miserable little ones...
and your feet
Remeber that Pennsic is now 2 weeks long and the War starts the second Monday.
there are battles pretty much every day until Sat.
We were lucky enough to be camped right next to my daughters God Parents, so babysitting was'nt an issue for us so we did get one or two nights out.
Now my daughter is 3 and she loves going to see Grandma....so Pennsic is when she goes to Camp Grandma for the Week.
Dont let anyone ever tell you that its not fun at Pennsic with Kids....its different, but still fun.

[This message has been edited by sarnac (edited 02-28-2002).]

Last year woods batlle was tuesday second week. Field battle was on wednesday. bridge battles on thursday and castle battles on monday and friday. If my memory serves me that is. Archery can be done anydayof the second week I believe.

Try to camp with someone with an enclosed camp. That way kids cant wander far. Bring lots of clean fresh water. Shade is a must. bring her/his favorite games and toys. They will get bored but there is lots too see, puppet shows etc. Plus just walking around will keep them entertained, and wear them out. If you are camping by yourselves I suggest camping up on the hill by the archery. it was very quiet up there at night. And they have a hay wagon that comes around about every 20 minutes during the day so you dont have to walk down or up. (A huge plus!) It is very shaded up there too just watch out for poison ivy, check your site thourghly and clean as necessary before setting up.

Be careful about your sitters. I snatched a little one up out of traffic last year (nearly got run over) and it took ten minutes to find her "guardian"-a ten-year-old who was no more than ten feet away, but completely absorbed in something else. I could have been out the gate and long gone…

Thanks guys! Keep it coming, I`m taking notes!
Hush, don`t worry about the quality of sitters we choose. I`m quite neurotic about whos watching Rhiana (our daughter) and Alicia (my wife) is only slightly less so!

Too bad you don't have a dog trained for that. And I always wanted a puppy-cart. They don't let you do that anymore (sigh).

Actualy Hush, My housedog Tessa would be a great sitter in so far as no one or nothing would come near her without me there. She is very protective of the baby! And if I get time this summer, I do plan on building a cart/wagon for Poison or Tessa to pull Rhiana in. Problem is I can`t bring them anywhere around other dogs. I already have a harness for them and they have done some pulling training. No dogs at war tho. As you said,"sigh".
John

The last Saturday 8/17 is becoming more and more of a breakdown day. The main action battle wise tends to be Wed - Friday 8/14-8/16, although Sunday through Tuesday are having more and more action.

If you can camp with folks who have kids as well, and have somewhat simillar parenting styles. Kids are great, but some singles (certainly not all) just don't mix well with them.

If you are getting a period pavillion, (it will vastly improve your Pennsic experiance)you can camp in the sunny areas like the Serengetti and still have it be pleasant. If you have a modern tent, I'd encourage you to camp in one of the tree heavey areas.
(see the map on the Pennsic web site).

Even if you have to miss a battle, make sure your wife has at least few hours a day without the kid, let her go off and wonder the merchants, take a class, or something. Even just an hour or two seems to vastly improve the Pennsic experience.

Lastly, if it gets rough, and you are miserable (Pennsic 23 with all the rain) go home or maybe a hotel, camping with a 2 year old can be miserable, and you don't want that to be your wifes primary Pennisc memory.

Oh yeah try and do a couple of weekend events to break in your gear and get the kid and wife used to camping. My girlfriends 3 yr old just loves to camp now, but we started slowly when she was 2.

Asbjorn

In the last couple of years,I've seen more than a few kid-wagons. For children too small to really hike the site, a "Radio Flyer" rigged with a half-canopy can be a godsend.

A knight in my barony knocked together a folding frame (1x2's, I think) which attached to his daughter's wagon with HomeDepot spring-clamps. She had room enough to sit, stretch out, or even nap.

While there are tons of period pavillions on-site, modern tents are also common.

I've noticed that the camp-sites which most "require" canvas tents (the treeless Serenghetti, for example) are also most conveniently sited for shopping, battles, etc. Especially if you're toting a child, being only "three streets" away from the Merchant's Quarter, the A&S tents, and the battlefields can be handy.

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"Or, a pall inverted surmounted by an orle Azure counterchanged"
mka: Sam Pearce

"Don't give her Pennsic water"

Don't give anyone Pensic water!

I agrre about dogs, i miss my babies for the whole 2 weeks. When i used to take them to events they barked for about 15 minutes and then went to sleep.

If you need the dog try getting it registerd as an assitance animal. Like a seeing eyey dog, then they have to let the dog in.

find some other local parents going and just trade of watching them. I know of a sitter or two that would take them for a few hours a night. try and find some one with a large tent that is willing to share is also an option just to have a place out of the sun for the little ones during the afternoon. rember that the sun can be a pain. bring just enuff water and food for the first day. after that run in to town and buy it there the price is about the same plus it has not set in your car for the drive time. plan to go in about very two or three days. bring a lagre cooler. plan to run for ice in the morning and posible again in the after noon. if you can find like minded people take turns cooking. for camping with children try and stay in the seringety preferably near the market. I hear some where that the land lots above the battle field were going to be reasigned as archery. and that last years archery was going to be camping for indaviduals and unregestered people.
but that was just a rumor.

John I have some thoughts on this, give me a call tonight or tomorrow if I am online all night. We camped on top of Mount Aislin last summer it had some real plusses and a few minuses. Going up after a day of fighting was not the most fun thing I have done at Pennsic. But the air was cleaner up there on the couple of still nights that seem inevitable. I know a couple of people from the barony with little ones are going, but they are likely to camp with the barony which generally means right on the highway. Which would also guarantee that your wife would be unhappy with the whole experience, unless she likes semis hitting the jake brake, air horn and rumble strip in unison at two in the morning.

I have one problem with Mount Eislinn-Eislinn's ashes are scattered there. That kind of makes that a cemetery, and I hate to see portajohns and garbage piles up there.

You know if it's your wifes first Pennsic and you want her to have FUN and maybe COME BACK next year....

Maybe rent a hotel/motel room instead of camping?

The amount of brownie points you will rack up with "little" things like...oh...running water, HOT water, flush toilets, heat/AC, NOT having to wonder if the storm will soak everything you own and make you miserable..... you know.....stuff like that.

Have fun at war during the day, and at night sleep the sleep of comfortable bliss.

Just a thought.
VvS

I vote that way--unless the Mrs. actually likes to camp.

"I have one problem with Mount Eislinn-Eislinn's ashes are scattered there. That kind of makes that a cemetery, and I hate to see portajohns and garbage piles up there."

Wow, really? I didn't know that. I knew that the hill was named after her, but not that she was burried there. That's cool! I proposed to my fiance on top of that very hill! Kinda wierd - I proposed in a cemetary!

I don't know how she'd a felt about it, but if it was me, I'd be maybe even happier being camped on with all the port-o-lets and stuff than being all off by my lonesome. I think I'd rather be caught in the middle of Pennsic than watching it from afar.

But then, I'll be dead and somewhere else so I guess it wouldn't really matter, eh?

Cool info. Thanks!

Steve

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Forth Armoury
The Riveted Maille Website!

Having never been to pennsic, this advise only counts for longterm camping:

Block Ice lasts longer than cubed or chipped ice. It wont hower chill things as fast. If possible, rig some sort of grating to suspend the food above the ice, keeping it out of the water.

Coleman has a new line of coolers they claim will keep ice for 5 day in 90 degree weather.
Click here--Coleman Xtreme coolers
And here are the guidelines for achieving this feat:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/xtreme.asp

-+G

Wow, Thanks guys! keep em coming! As to the camping thing, Alicia has been wanting to try camping for some time now, so thats not a problem.
Thadeus, I am just now sitting at my computer at eleven o clock p.m. I will call you tommorrow tho. I was out all day and just got back a little bit ago. ironicly I was in your neck of the woods all evening!
Thanks guys!
John

sodium is your friend. as soon as you can go to the market and buy a hat. know where your going and where you are. geting lost on the side of the road with out all of your facultys is not a good way to spent the night.
beer on tap.

I haven't done Pennsic, since I'm over here in Europe, but my wife and I have done lots of 2 and three week camping excurions throughout the "touristy" places here. Shade pavillion/rainfly over the table, small tent to store your food, cooking supplies, cooler etc. rugs for the tent floor, good sleeping arrangements (my wife and I swear by army style cots)
Slainte,
Fearghus

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"How long will we fight? We will fight until hell freezes
over. Then we fight on the ice."
Fearghus's Homepage

just noticed something we missed; one of the most commonly repeated(and for good reason) bits of advice about pennsic is get good footware! wear them, make sure the shoes are broken in and comfortable... the roads/paths at pennsic can be tricky, and there is always something to step on(tent spikes!)...
damage to the feet, and damage from heat, are probably the most common malady's at chiurgeons point... so bring sunscreen also! (and store it in the ice chest on hot days, it feels reeealll good going on the skin)

bela

Definitely not a good place to try out new shoes. The ice chest is also a good place for your candles, if you watersafe them first.

The "point battles" will be over by Friday. Typically there are a few fun battles on Saturday, with last year having the "invade the castle" battle that day. However, with Coopers requiring that we be totally off site by 3 pm on Sunday, much of the activity winds down by saturday and folks start to leave by saturday evening. Just keep that part in mind, depending on what you'd like to participate in.

Food and drink are plentiful by way of merchants, if you don't mind standing in line with many other folks. Shopping for groceries requires a 20 minute drive and the walk to and from the car. (parking was at an extreme premium last year, and they anticipate the same this year, plan to walk a great deal.)

We took our (then 2-yr old) daughter to week 1 last year, during the hottest part. It's really no different than camping anywhere with a child. We had a wading pool available which helped with the heat. Good shoes.. you WILL walk a lot. Pennsic is HUGE.. much larger than it was when I started going. (we're camping in the old parking lots now.) I can't stress enough the use of the "baby wagons." Strollers just won't survive. It also doubles as an "ice wagon" and an "armor wagon" and an "any other thing wagon." Sunscreen is imperative, even if it's cloudy. And don't forget toys for the little one. Children can get quickly bored, and bored children are .. well.. unhappy. *smile*

Enjoy the trip.

..Malcolm

Oh, and middle-aged ladies with no children will try to hug your child. They don't mean any harm.