The Armour Archive

I really like the idea of the tournament companies, but my persona is 9th Century Irish. My current plan is tenatively called the War Band of the Ba'n Reannag and would be based on 9th and 10th century Ireland (vikings as well as the irish) but I'm stuck on what to add. Any help would be apprecaited. Check out the website to see what I have so far.

http://www.dreamwater.net/edu/warband/index.htm

I have talked to some of you in chat but would appreciate any input you can give me!!

Thanks all,

Bran

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Courage is not the absence of fear, it's the ability to overcome it.

I'd look, but PSAB's net nanny seems to feel that all web hosting services are inherently evil and won't let me view. Are you intending to have the same standards for appearance as a torunement company? In other words, look damn good on the field? I think that there are lots of things that can be done whithin the early period time frame that look good and are effective sca armour, especially if you take the "period sca" approach that Norman advocates and I agree with. Make your "sport armour" out of period materials and make it good looking. Mkae what a meidieval person would have made whne confronted with our rules.
Slainte,
Fearghus

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"How long will we fight? We will fight until hell freezes
over. Then we fight on the ice."
Fearghus's Homepage

Great idea. Do you have any ideas what the Irish were using in terms of arms, armour, shields etc. at this time? Anyone I know doing this time period just uses Anglo-Norse style war gear with lots of plaid and saffron underneath.

*edit* I just read through the entire page, I really like the idea. If I could offer a few points for discussion;

you state that there were no signifigant changes in the equipment used between 800-1000, which is very untrue. The equipment of a Scandinavian professional warrior in say 800 compared to 1000 varied quite a bit, and mismatching would be wrong IMO. We can get into this via email if you like.

Secondly, what you have basically done here is chosen the two cultures with the biggest body of heroic literature in pre-feudal Europe, the Irish and the Scandinavians. It would be a real pity to simply adopt the generic half-medieval half-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle SCA version of the Warrior Code. Use some of the oaths the Jomsvikings swore, follow the teachings of the Havamal, or looks to the legends of Finn Mac Cumhall. Finn is pre-800, but those stories were almost gospel among the Irish at that time.

One interesting thought that occured to me is this; neither the Irish or the Norse practiced Squiring pre-1000, but it is a huge part of the SCA fighting community. What was practiced amont the warrior classes of both cultures was fosterage. Your war band could set up a system of senior members taking foster-sons from among the newer recruits, it would add a bit. Would you rather be Patrick O'Kelly, squire to Sir Olafr Ingbranðsson Hinn Hrafnbloð, or Bran MacScandlan, foster-son to Murchad Mac Brian. Sounds better, hmm?

This is a great idea, if I were more local to your club I would join in a hearbeat (it would give me an excuse to replace this aluminum lamellar if nothing else )

~Wil

[This message has been edited by Brodir (edited 05-30-2002).]

One more thing before I seek my bed, you stated that you would allow people to use shield baskets as a modern convenience. I can 't really think of any shield shapes in use in Ireland in the year 1000 that wouldn't have incorporated a shield boss. The kite shield is a possibility, but looking at the Bayeux tapestry (which depicts a battle 66 years after your cutoff), the kite is used exclusively by the continental Norman invaders, with the kite taking a backseat to the round with boss among the Anglo-Saxon forces. The Saxon armament was more likely to be what was currently fashionable than the Irish, yet the new 'kite' shape hadn't totally caught on by 1066. I would say it would be 99% impossible for an Irishman or a Norseman in Ireland to have had a kite shield before 1000.

Ban the shield baskets, it's more accurate and you're removing one more modern item from the field.

~Wil

I would very much like to see this happen. Be strong- don't let guys in bascinets fight in your events! In fact, don't even let people in high medieval garb WATCH.
-Vitus

Thanks for the great input so far!! Let me make a couple of clarifications.

Fearghus - Yes we are trying to get the tournament companies dedication to a more period look on the field and adapt it for early period. Sure that means alot of hidden armor, but isn't that better than smurf stuff??

Brodir - Everything I've seen so far says that the Irish were using alot of Norse gear due to the fact that Ireland is iron poor. I'm still conducting research however. Anyone with more information please feel free to share . I need the info

I'll have to adjust what I said if I said that there were not advances in armor between 800 - 1000. I MEANT to say between the last few years of the 8th century and 800 and again from 1000 to a few years later when the "viking age" ended. That was not anything but me uploading a file without realizing how it read.

As for the "warrior code", as I said on the site...that's until I work something else more specific to the era. Thanks for the good idea of where to look.

I REALLY like the idea of fostering though. Nice touch!!!

Also, sheild baskets are just until folks can upgrade to the bosses. I am also trying to get in touch with a living history group that has pictures of Irish warriors (modern not period in any way) with a strapped shield. I want to find out if they have documentation for that or if they are just guessing (I know all re-enactments are not created equal ).

Thanks again...Keep the idea's coming!!!!!!

Bran

"). No visible plastic is allowed. It is preferred that plastic not be worn at all, there are more period materials available that will offer plenty of protection."

If your gonna be authentic, ban it completely. If you don't you will have the same genericelts in plastic and mucking great tunics that flood the regular fields of the known world.

At least leather and gamboised badding are technologically possible for your period.

Being thats your boys are high muckty mucks in their cultures remember that mail is the thing, lots of mail. IMO we probably see preportionatly waaaaaayyyyy more lamalar on "Celts" than they would have worn. I mean you'd think we issued leather lamalar here in Meridies. Besides almost anyone can make butted mail. And it's getting pretty cheap to just buy it.

Also unless someone can document the SCA kidney belt, i'd make them have to be hidden. Closest i've ever heard of is the "celtic war belt" and thats no where near the width of most SCA K-belts.

"Shields should be of the appropriate style used during the War Band's time period"

Which also means no aluminum shields. You gaotta ban that. We did, it took a bit.
We had this one goober that just refused to ditch his aluminum oval until it damn near fell apart, when it was shaped more like a fried egg than an oval i, eh um i mean , HE finally went to a hardwood shield.

There are Lots of EP guys in Meridies to recruit from. Sir Ian is already to your standrds, so is Viscount Sir Camric (but i think he's Norman)
Sir Max might be Roman i'm not sure, Duke John the Mad Celt might help ya. Then there are all the guys up in Net er Dywiddion most of my Squire Brothers are Vikings, so is my Knight.


I'd borrow as much info from Regia as is possible they are the cream of the early period crop.

great idea! the site was well done and if I lived in your area I would get involved in a heatbeat.
Now if only we had an EP tourny company here in the West Kingdom. hmmmm....

Engenulf

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It would seem fitting for a Northern folk, deriving the greater and better part of their speech, laws and customs from a Northern root, that the North should be to them, if not a holy land, yet at least a place more to be regarded than any part of the worldbeside, that howsoever their knowledge widened of other men, the faith and deeds of their forefathers would never lack intrest for them, but would always be kept in remembrance.
- William Morris

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Murdock:
<B>"). No visible plastic is allowed. It is preferred that plastic not be worn at all, there are more period materials available that will offer plenty of protection."

If your gonna be authentic, ban it completely. If you don't you will have the same genericelts in plastic and mucking great tunics that flood the regular fields of the known world.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm still debating on that one and will probably do just that. There are to many other options out there
<B>").
"Shields should be of the appropriate style used during the War Band's time period"

Which also means no aluminum shields. You gaotta ban that. We did, it took a bit.
We had this one goober that just refused to ditch his aluminum oval until it damn near fell apart, when it was shaped more like a fried egg than an oval i, eh um i mean , HE finally went to a hardwood shield.</B>[/QUOTE]
I should ammend that quote to say authentic style AND material. Good one

Bran



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Courage is not the absence of fear, it's the ability to overcome it.

Any other ideas??? ANYONE?????

I need help here

Thanks for the help so far folks....everything has been great. Now I just have to fix the goofs that I made...oh well...that's what weekends are for right?

Bran

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Murdock:

<B>Sir Ian is already to your standrds, so is Viscount Sir Camric (but i think he's Norman)
Sir Max might be Roman i'm not sure, Duke John the Mad Celt might help ya.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Murdock, would you be willing to skim through the appropriate Kingdom and/or Baronial website photo galleries, and find me some pics of the four men you mentioned above? I'd be really interested in seeing what they've done with their kits, Viking Age done well in the context of SCA combat greatly interests me. Thanks,

~Wil

I'll give it a shot man.

There are people on the board that are in local groups with at least some of them. They might have pics.

Some things have been updated....what do you guys think? A lot is gonna be left sorta as-is until I have some other info but please check it out and let me know!!

Thanks

Bran

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Courage is not the absence of fear, it's the ability to overcome it.