The Armour Archive

It's always going to hurt, but more so for the first couple of years. Whether you just have insufficient pain tolerance for it is unclear. But there are always going to be horrible bruises. If I'm fighting once a week, I go to practice still wearing the fading bruises of the week before. I don't even want to talk about 2-3 practice a week. It's pretty much destroyed by ability to date non-sca fighter types or wear short sleeves or shorts without strangers talking to me about domestic violence.

If you are still interested enough in sca fighting to try some things, you can mitigate the beating you will take by adding padding under your armour like gambeson, crashpads, hexpads, etc. Also, I simply have to limit the amount of fighting I do based upon the beating. I've done it enough to know that I can only be hit so many times before the next ten days of my life are going to be miserable. So I stop. Sometimes that can happen in the space of 10 minutes, sometimes it's several hours. When it happens, I stop and rest up for the next practice.

Many people, especially women, only fight at wars. You will rarely receive much of a beating in melee combat because you usually do not get hit with as much frequency as you do at a practice. Also most people hit you in the head. Fighting in every point battle at Pennsic is usually comperable (in terms of physical damage) to a single two hour practie for me. If you go, it sounds like you are going to want to avoid pick ups.

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:Fel,

Both parties in question knew it was my first practice. The fighter with the glaive was instructing me personally for most of the practice, and I consider the hit to my leg to have been rather freakish although the intensity with which he was coming at me was a bit unbearable, although I tried to suck it up at the time!

Ed,

I think I may consult my doctor regarding the matter this week, now that I've brought it to attention and you think it's worth asking about. In addition to my typical chiropractic aid being less than useful as of late, bruises, cuts and other small physical nuisances have been lasting particularly longer since the mono, methinks. I know that a typical lasting symptom of the sickness is a low red blood cell count, which may account for the slow regeneration of my tissues?

-Gregory

Greg, be careful. There are plenty of people in this club who _LIKE_ to hurt people. Whether as a sign of skill, or simply sadism, I'm not sure. But sometimes saying "I'm new, and not at all good at this" is a red flag for them to pull out their most obnoxious, twattish freak shot and use it as often as possible.

I think it was bad padding, and you not being used to impact bruising.. as well as just possibly not being used to the effects of muscle trauma. You get over that after a while.. either by learning to to get hit there, armoring better, or just getting used to it.

I've found the _WORST_ to be when you get whomped, then get in a car for half an hour. The best is when you get the tar beat out of you at, say, Pennsic, then walk half an hour in your rig to get back to camp. Those, even though they were some of the worst bruises I've ever had, never seemed to bother me much.

Oh, and instead of vicodin, try just drinking a shitload of water when you get home. I've found it works better. Not sure if it helps the muscles deal with the bruising or what.

But I'd give it another try. It doesn't get "fun" until you start being able to hit people back, and make it count. At that point, though, the "Fun" vs "suck" chart totally inverts.

It sounds as if you like the idea of the game more than the game itself.

Pain is just a natural repercussion of fighting. Most SCA fighters I know wear their bruises as badges of honor.

There are other aspects of the SCA that are fun that do not involve fighting. You enjoy research and craft, so maybe that is your path.

Gregory,

I don't have any experience with mono, so I can't comment on that. However, it is absolutely true that your body will get used to fighting - it's unreasonable to turn your back on something after the first time unless your experience is so miserable (which it may sound like it is) that you simply cannot stand to try it again.

I started fighting heavy list at 16, and while I was a senior in high school I ran three seasons (cross country, winter and spring track) while attending regular fighter practices. Sometimes running with bruises on your legs sucks, but you get used to it and as you improve you'll get hit less and probably have less severe bruising from getting hit. For example, I was hit in the arm (just below the shoulder) with a bastard sword at practice Thursday night. All I was wearing there is a long sleeve t-shirt, yet I didn't even get a small bruise.

I think it's likely that your expectations may have been set a bit too high and perhaps your armor/padding isn't up to par.

For reference I am 5' 10" and about 140-145 lbs.

Adam

Thanks for all of the posts, guys. I appreciate all of the sentiment and the opinions you have displayed here, and am taking your considerations very seriously. I am specifically honored that so many local Westies have chimed in, and I appreciate the contact information that has been given to me, etc.

I am really bothered by the fact that when I woke up this morning I still have a slight limp due to the pain in my thigh. The pain when I press on the point of impact is still almost jolting. This has got to be some kind of sign that the mono is still grasping me, I think. I really don't know how I can overcome this kind of an obstacle except by armoring MUCH more sufficiently - which is not something I have time to do prior to Pennsic.

Here's the deal. This morning I got up and read through the thread and talked to my dad for a while in earnest about whether or not I should try to get out on the field for Pennsic. The overall appraisal of the situation, between my armor deficiencies and the newly discovered idea that the mono is probably a culprit in this (I'm seriously no wimp, I've had my fair share of crazy accidents, etc, and I am totally weirded out by this pain as much as you people are) has lead us to decide that it is probably not a good idea.

Also, because the mono is not likely to just disappear after I return from Pennsic and move to San Francisco, I have to reconsider my course of action. I am going to withhold making any judgments about what to do upon arrival in the West until after I've spent an amazing time at Pennsic observing the different activities, but I will say that I have always been particularly interested in rapier combat and wouldn't mind if any San Fran locals can PM me regarding the activity in the area...

Cheers. And thank you so much. The thoughts you've put into your posts make me realize how much of a family you guys are. I feel like an idiot for having a problem like this and right now's about the closest to crying I've been because of this dilemma, but it's not due to the pain... It's because I know I want to be an involved member of this organization a lot. I like the idea of fighting and I even enjoyed the fighting experience the other evening and during high school when I attended practices, sans the typical new-guy giddiness. I want to wear armor around and show off my own work and get people interested in wearing more accurate harness, too. But the reason I want to be active in the SCA most is because of people like you.

-Gregory

(p.s. Blaine, regarding the madu... Yeah, oops! I just thought about it and he had his madu in his left hand and sword in right, opposite my left shoulder. So this was a series of downward hits on my shoulder with his sword, not the madu jabs.)

Everybody's given great advice so far, but you also said that you just really want to be an active member of the SCA and be involved. No matter what you choose to do, there's a lot to do in the SCA that isn't fighting either. So try not to get too discouraged. Early on when I first joined I wasn't really sure what to do with myself, and I limited my participation to only one area and in the SCA labeled myself 'I am this _____.' I had a lot more fun once I finally just took some time to explore doing a bunch of different things and my fun in the Society no longer became dependent on doing just that one thing.

And, just because you cannot fight right now due to the muscle issues, does not mean you cannot ever fight again in the future. Give this thing a few months to work itself out, if you have to. You spoke of wanting to keep up with your bike riding, and that could be your method of gauging your body healing itself. As time goes by, if you keep up with your bike riding and the pain and soreness affects you less and less, you could see about getting into armour again. But don't feel like you can't participate because of not being able to fight. There's still plenty to do, plenty of people to meet, and plenty of fun to be had. That, I can guarantee you.

I've been out of armour for two years, and it looks like it might even continue for another year to come. But that doesn't change the fact that I've got my gear, I've still got my basics I learned, and I still itch to fight and participate when I'm able to.

-Ed

Gregory-
From one Gregory to another-
It has to be the Mono. That does not sound
right at all. There is no way you should hurt
like that after a practice unless someone was
intent on beating you up.
But do not give up. This is the greatest game
in the world.
Get yourself authorized if you can, take it easy
at practice. Come to Pennsic and fight in the
big battles.
Keep yourself alive, and protect those around you.
Go light on the pickups this year.
Then go home and heal up.
Come back next year and be the Hector you know
yourself to be.

-Graedwyn

The vicodins could have made it worse the next day as well.

Maeryk wrote:Learn to block.

I know that's the standard answer, but I know what he's talking about. I was the same way for the first couple of years. It doesn't have to do with getting hit. It has to do with jerking your infrequently used muscle groups around at high intensity for an hour or so.

I would hurt like a toothache everywhere for the next 3 days after a fighter practice no matter how much I was hit. My knees ached. My ribs throbbed. Sometimes it would hurt to breathe. My arms ached. My back would get cramps. It was bad. It was also the main reason why I didn't go very often. I would have to budget my time knowing I'd be useless for a couple of days after practice. And I'd have to gauge that against my desire. Sometimes my desire to do this would lose. The notion of hurting that much would win out. I'd just say to myself "I don't want to feel that bad for that long so I'm not going."

The thing is though - it goes away if you stick to it. If you go to practice regularly the achy thing stops completely. You have to tough through it. It will go away once those little used muscle groups get used to the new demands you're putting on them.

As for how to get through it, I recommend Ibuprofen. Take two an hour before practice (anti inflammatories work preemptively). Two more when you go to bed. Keep two more and a glass of water by your bed - you'll need them in the morning.

It sucks, I know. But you just have to tough through it. If you want it enough you can do it. The pain eventually lessens and then goes away altogether. It's a big surprise the first time you wake up the day after a big event and you feel okay. It was for me.

Yes, Loius.. that's why I put the evil smiley face there. It was meant as a tongue in cheek response. At least, I _think_ I put it there.

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:Thanks for all of the posts, guys. I appreciate all of the sentiment and the opinions you have displayed here, and am taking your considerations very seriously. I am specifically honored that so many local Westies have chimed in, and I appreciate the contact information that has been given to me, etc.

I am really bothered by the fact that when I woke up this morning I still have a slight limp due to the pain in my thigh. The pain when I press on the point of impact is still almost jolting. This has got to be some kind of sign that the mono is still grasping me, I think. I really don't know how I can overcome this kind of an obstacle except by armoring MUCH more sufficiently - which is not something I have time to do prior to Pennsic.

Here's the deal. This morning I got up and read through the thread and talked to my dad for a while in earnest about whether or not I should try to get out on the field for Pennsic. The overall appraisal of the situation, between my armor deficiencies and the newly discovered idea that the mono is probably a culprit in this (I'm seriously no wimp, I've had my fair share of crazy accidents, etc, and I am totally weirded out by this pain as much as you people are) has lead us to decide that it is probably not a good idea.

Also, because the mono is not likely to just disappear after I return from Pennsic and move to San Francisco, I have to reconsider my course of action. I am going to withhold making any judgments about what to do upon arrival in the West until after I've spent an amazing time at Pennsic observing the different activities, but I will say that I have always been particularly interested in rapier combat and wouldn't mind if any San Fran locals can PM me regarding the activity in the area...

Cheers. And thank you so much. The thoughts you've put into your posts make me realize how much of a family you guys are. I feel like an idiot for having a problem like this and right now's about the closest to crying I've been because of this dilemma, but it's not due to the pain... It's because I know I want to be an involved member of this organization a lot. I like the idea of fighting and I even enjoyed the fighting experience the other evening and during high school when I attended practices, sans the typical new-guy giddiness. I want to wear armor around and show off my own work and get people interested in wearing more accurate harness, too. But the reason I want to be active in the SCA most is because of people like you.

-Gregory

(p.s. Blaine, regarding the madu... Yeah, oops! I just thought about it and he had his madu in his left hand and sword in right, opposite my left shoulder. So this was a series of downward hits on my shoulder with his sword, not the madu jabs.)

Gregory,

Lots of good advice in this thread and I think you decision is a good one. If you push yourself and get hurt it may ruin the game for you permanently, if you take it slow and safe you may miss out on a little bit, but the best part of the SCA is there is always stuff to do. You should still go to Pennsic and take classes and enjoy the company of other cool like minded people. Personally I'd love to sit down with you and discuss the thought process behind your hidden gear seeing as our body types are very similar. That shot to the thigh/hip just over the cuisse really sucks and there are very few armour options for it. For us skinny kids it sucks extra since it usually is just skin and bone.

You may want to look into splinting or reinforcing the leather with metal or a similar material at some point because it will soften up with heat and moisture from your body.

Greg, shit or get off the pot

fight or not

I did not start until I was almost 40

Just sayin'

I'm going to go along with the others that blame the mono. I've gotten a shot that made me limp the next day exactly once, and that was a freakish spear thrust to the meaty part of my thigh as I was charging. Like others have said. It really shouldn't still be hurting that much.

As to padding, as time has gone on, I've realized that generally, those wacky medieval guys got it right more often than not. Everything modern I have used has not worked nearly as well as a period solution. That means ditch the high-tech mouse pads and get or make a linen gambeson with cotton batting. It'll breathe better too. If you still have issues, look into supplementing with modern gear specifically designed for this sort of thing, like the hex pad stuff.

This thing is not for everybody. It is not supposed to be. If it is not fun for you, don't do it.

If you have an interest in rapier, this might be a good time to try it. Bruises will be much smaller and less painful. However, rapier is pretty demanding of your cardiovascular fitness, so you may need to pace yourself if the mono's still causing fatigue. I know of a number of people who have moved between heavy and rapier, so at least some of what you learn in rapier, especially footwork, should be usable in armored fighting when/if you go back to it.

It sounds like, at the very least, you should consult a doctor about the pain and slow healing issues. Even if you postpone doing heavy fighting, you'll still be at risk for falling off your bike if you ride regularly, so you still need to be able to heal like a normal person.

(Also, if you ever happen across the Dagorhir [foam-weapon] group in the Bay Area, there's a cool older guy named Kyrax [Tim Burgess] who's an avid bike racer. I know him from when he lived on the East Coast.)

It sounds like, at the very least, you should consult a doctor about the pain and slow healing issues. Even if you postpone doing heavy fighting, you'll still be at risk for falling off your bike if you ride regularly, so you still need to be able to heal like a normal person.

This was another issue for me as of late, as I have not been riding much because at the beginning of summer I pushed to get back on the bike and do some good miles, but after a couple of weeks my left thigh started to hurt around my groin. I went to the doc and he said I'd developed a bit of tendinitis as I'd stressed my left leg riding. This was wild, because I was a track junkie in high school and was riding my life away just a year previous - the mono is definitely playing with my body when it comes down to it, and the tendinitis was just another wake up call.

For a few, it seems as though you think I'm considering not going to Pennsic due to whatever choices I may make. This is certainly not the case. I will be attending Pennsic even if Yellowstone blows up and the sky darkens permanently before it starts. No worries there!

The main question is whether I'll fight there, and I think I will not to the full intent of the term... I am going to get authorized these coming two weeks, as my group promised they would do for me, and am going to get to Pennsic without armour and enjoy the spectacles of the event for two weeks. I'm going to return home, move to San Francisco, settle in and then start to attend the BART pratice and others as regularly as my schedule will allow. I'll be taking five upper-division Medieval history classes, though, so I don't know how much time that'll end up being!

Cheers!

-Gregory

I'm mostly on the side of guys like Nissan in this, in that it may not be for everyone.

But, as you say, you are not used to pain. The bruise you've shown us really isn't that serious in the continuum of bruising. Part of the tolerance of pain is that, like any tolerance, you build it up over time. I'd be willing to bet that your bruising isn't so serious as to actually hinder the performance of your muscles. That isn't to say it doesn't hurt, because it does. But I'd be willing to bet that you could run up those stairs if you had a reason.

What you may need to think on is whether your tolerance is going to grow or not, and whether you can stand waiting around until it does.

Battle-hardened is not just a fancy term, it's a real description.

Gregory J. Liebau wrote: am going to get to Pennsic without armour
-Gregory

I think you will regret this decision. You are going to miss an opportunity to be on a battle field with hundreds of people. It is a rush like no other.

You generally get much fewer bruises in melee than you do in singles practice.

My advice is to bring the armour otherwise why bother getting authorized before you go.

Uric

Hmmm, yeah, might as well take it just in case...

-Gregory

I've skimmed the thread.Nothing new to Add.

cept, One practice is a little early to call it done.Don't call it yet.

yea that level of pain happens,should not be any every event/practice thing though.

Get better padding,maybe metal shoulders.
I have a boney built body.Any place where God did not grace you with padding needs it.

I started wearing an arming Cote recently. I can not belive the amount of protection it offers.I used the same kit with it that I've used for way to many years and it is just amazing at how much better the old kit works.

Also When you move, from the sound of the post in this thread they are more than willing to help you though this.

Now life should always come first.Loved ones ,work (or school) gotta be first.

Blackoak wrote:

Gregory J. Liebau wrote: am going to get to Pennsic without armour
-Gregory

I think you will regret this decision. You are going to miss an opportunity to be on a battle field with hundreds of people. It is a rush like no other.

You generally get much fewer bruises in melee than you do in singles practice.

My advice is to bring the armour otherwise why bother getting authorized before you go.

Uric

+1

If you are going to authorize you might as well bring your armour and try the melees at Pennsic. My worst bruises are always at practice....except one awesome one from Sir Johannes two Lillies ago.

Give yourself time for complete recovery from the mono, then decide.

It may not be for you. But if mono is screwing with your pain tolerance and healing abilities, there main be extenuating factors.

So, wait.

Nissan Maxima wrote:This thing is not for everybody. It is not supposed to be. If it is not fun for you, don't do it.

+1

Here is one with some good texture.

Bruise thread necromancy!
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... ght=bruise

Gregory,
Sorry to hear about this.
I've been quite enjoying your posts. It seems your heart and mind are in the right place, with time I hope your body falls in line.
Until that day, as others have said there are many aspects to this game, hopefully a young man with your talent and intellect can enjoy them while you are biding your time.

Bring your armour to Pennsic... you will kick yourself if you don't.

During the first few days you are there, before you go fight, make some friends who are fighting in the battles and are experienced war fighters. (There are lots of us on the Archive who will be there) Fight with these people in the battles. Their advice and the protection of their unit will make a huge difference and limit the chances of anything bad happening.

Ieuan Gower
Prince, Tir Righ

P.S. I will be in the An Tir Royal Encampment and you are welcome to come say hi.

No.

Find a mentor.

Bring your armour to Pennsic and ask for fighting and armour advice. Write their main advice down. Take Duke Paul's class. Ask the retired fighters about their views.

If you go to Pennsic and find nobody to help you and nobody you would like to fight, then I would say you don't want to fight. The world visits Pennsic. Your mentor is there somewhere.

And videotape the Battle of 30.

Fight, don't fight. Only you can answer that. It sounds like you had your answer before you asked the question but who knows. Keep in mind that you will get hit a lot more frequently in one on ones than you will in melee. I would advise authorizing and giving pensic a shot, just so you know what you are giving up.

Domnall wrote:Here is one with some good texture.

Not bad...



Mail + Hexpad

Ingvarr wrote:Fight, don't fight. Only you can answer that. It sounds like you had your answer before you asked the question but who knows. Keep in mind that you will get hit a lot more frequently in one on ones than you will in melee. I would advise authorizing and giving pensic a shot, just so you know what you are giving up.

I'll second what Ingvarr says. Get authorized and get to Pennsic...even if all you do there is network with other archivers and fight in one battle it will be worth it...and at least you will know what you are dealing with. From my own experience you get hit way harder in singles than in melees, especially if you don't feel the need to be at the centre of the action.

Fighting isn't for everybody. It may not be for you but only you can answer that.
If that practice was your first time in armor, nobody did you any favors ther letting you fight the range of weapons you did. You don't have the experiece to know what to do and your body doesn't have the experience moving the way it needs to with all that gear. Find another practice and take it slow. At your level I would have you fighting nothing but experienced sword and shield fighters who have the restraint to keep things just a hair above your skill level and who will hit you on the light end of "good" Pummeling a newbie lacks class. Find another practice.
Take some time to decide if you really want to be a fighter or if its one of those things that looks good in theory. The only way you can do that is to get some helmet time in. (Some time back I had to make that decision regarding riding bulls. Turns out its one of those theory things for me but I did get a couple of funny stories out of the experience!)
If you really have the bug, and you are working with competant people who will teach you well and not just play whack a newb, then you will know it soon enough. When that happens, Ranger up, take the bruises and persevere. They are part of the game and they will teach you a lot.
If however you just don't feel it, walk away without shame. You may just be more sane than the rest of us in the end. If its not for you, its just not for you.
Me, I've got the bug. I've had it for over twenty years now and while sometimes I have taken long stretches off, I always come back to it. I have fought with ribs cracked from fighting days before, I have finished tournys with broken fingers, I have fought to exhaustion, dehydration and heat exhaustion. All were my own fault BTW. Some would say I am not too smart-they may be right. But I have the bug and there is nothing else I can do. If you catch it, you will know. But find another practice where your body will be given time to catch up to your dream.
Peace
YiS
Drefan

Authorize and bring your armor to Pennsic. Remember you really only get hit once per battle, and it's an experience you won't want to miss.

Plus if you have it there you can get some good training in and meet a lot of the people who you've been chatting with for years.

g-

Gregory,

Getting hurt sucks. The constant battering I took nearly put me off rattan fighting for good. But I armoured up until I could get better. For about $50, you can get one of those blue plastic trash barrels and a foam camp/exercise mat to pad it with, sewn inside a gambeson made from a king size bed sheet from goodwill. It can go under your armour and protect you very very well until you can get better, or make a different decision.

In fact, a complete trash barrelt will make about 3 sets of armour.

I think you should look in to what you are eating as well. I know people think they are eating well or correctly but it is also about timing of what you eat. You just might not be getting what you need to be healthy.

Also, if you were sick recently as you stated you most likely lost all your muscle mass. So you could be "hurting" on two fronts.

If you were my boy I would say, "are you Hurt or injured; if you hurt shut up if you injured go to the doctor." in the end that is the only two real conclusions I feel.

Hope you feel better

-H