The Armour Archive

dukelogan wrote:but its not cheesy to come to a fight with a polearm and then sneak someone by changing it to a dagger fight? feels sneaky to me. if you want to fight with daggers then, by all means, lets do the man dance. now if someone grabs the haft, somehow shoves it away, regains their polearm and cracks me in the neck..... thats fine. its the grabbing and wrestling around that i object to. if we were allowed to respond in kind (with te wrestling) i dont think i would object. or, if when you are grabbing at your dagger i could grab your wrist and manipulate it i wouldnt object. i wouldnt object if i could smash your hand when you grabbed my polearm either. but i cant.

now, ive never had anyone do what is being described. ive had one fight in which every time we swung on each other my opponent would close and then grab my polearm trying to wrench it away. since i was unable to forceably remove him or his grip i simply let him have the weapon he so clearly wanted. several times this happened and each time i asked him if he wanted to fight or wrestle. being lower on the op he was allowed to choose the weapons form (a practice i dislike greatly) but then he didnt want to fight with the weapon he choose. he had no "back-up" weapon. it left a bad taste in my mouth.

in a spear dual i had a guy charge at me with his spear, slip his lead hand off of his spear and grab mine, pull a dagger and draw it back as he closed clearly intending to stab me. i was pretty screwed save taking my spear haft and slamming it across his chest (which our rules say i cant ). before he was able to stick me two of my guys hit him (one on each side of me). he fell at my feet, looked up, and said "well shit, i thought i was gonna get you logan". i smiled at him and walked off to the side with him calling myself dead. that didnt feel dirty. but that is very different than what we are talking about.

i hope that makes sense.

regards
logan

Hrolfr wrote:Your Grace, if you carry a backup weapon, then be releasing your pole arm, you ARE NOT 'helpless' (you still have a weapon ), you doing a stratagy

Releasing a weapon that has been grasped in order to get the fight 'reset' is cheesy (and against the spirit of our 'combat')

Releasing a weapon so you can stab the other person in the face with your dagger, is full of love

dukelogan wrote:yep.

if you can grab, boom, best then by all means im fine with that. if you grab and want to wrestle i will let you have the weapon since i am forbidden to wrestle back or lift you and throw you to the earth. some call me a coward for it which is cool but i bet you wont call me that to my face. if so, lets reset and i will let you grab my weapon and try to wrestle again only this time i wont let go and i will, i promise, send you into the sky only to find the earth shortly after.

grab it, move it, then do something to end the fight...... im fine with that. but creating a wrestling match that i am not allow to engage in because of our rules is bullshit.

regards
logan

Thomas MacFinn wrote:Edited for clarity:

Jurgen wrote:I grab polearm hafts on ocassion, and it is a useful technique in certain situations ... Interestingly, I'm rarely tossed around when I grab ... Even that is rare, because usually when I grab, the fight is over almost immediately.

I would guess this is because you are "doing it right". In my lone opinion, a grab to a polearm should be part of a two-part move by someone who can kill you one handed. If you go grab, boom, opponent dead; you are doing it right.

If you go grab, then wrestle around for ten to twenty seconds while you try to figure out what to do next or struggle to draw a too-well-secured dagger, that is when people get tossed around or polearms dropped.

olaf haraldson wrote:I applaud you for calling yourself dead...
but if you ever catch me pulling that on you, I hereby give you permission to spear check my ass into next week.

Olaf

dukelogan wrote:but its not cheesy to come to a fight with a polearm and then sneak someone by changing it to a dagger fight? feels sneaky to me. if you want to fight with daggers then, by all means, lets do the man dance. now if someone grabs the haft, somehow shoves it away, regains their polearm and cracks me in the neck..... thats fine. its the grabbing and wrestling around that i object to. if we were allowed to respond in kind (with te wrestling) i dont think i would object. or, if when you are grabbing at your dagger i could grab your wrist and manipulate it i wouldnt object. i wouldnt object if i could smash your hand when you grabbed my polearm either. but i cant.

now, ive never had anyone do what is being described. ive had one fight in which every time we swung on each other my opponent would close and then grab my polearm trying to wrench it away. since i was unable to forceably remove him or his grip i simply let him have the weapon he so clearly wanted. several times this happened and each time i asked him if he wanted to fight or wrestle. being lower on the op he was allowed to choose the weapons form (a practice i dislike greatly) but then he didnt want to fight with the weapon he choose. he had no "back-up" weapon. it left a bad taste in my mouth.

in a spear dual i had a guy charge at me with his spear, slip his lead hand off of his spear and grab mine, pull a dagger and draw it back as he closed clearly intending to stab me. i was pretty screwed save taking my spear haft and slamming it across his chest (which our rules say i cant ). before he was able to stick me two of my guys hit him (one on each side of me). he fell at my feet, looked up, and said "well shit, i thought i was gonna get you logan". i smiled at him and walked off to the side with him calling myself dead. that didnt feel dirty. but that is very different than what we are talking about.

i hope that makes sense.

regards
logan

Hrolfr wrote:Your Grace, if you carry a backup weapon, then be releasing your pole arm, you ARE NOT 'helpless' (you still have a weapon ), you doing a stratagy

Releasing a weapon that has been grasped in order to get the fight 'reset' is cheesy (and against the spirit of our 'combat')

Releasing a weapon so you can stab the other person in the face with your dagger, is full of love

dukelogan wrote:yep.

if you can grab, boom, best then by all means im fine with that. if you grab and want to wrestle i will let you have the weapon since i am forbidden to wrestle back or lift you and throw you to the earth. some call me a coward for it which is cool but i bet you wont call me that to my face. if so, lets reset and i will let you grab my weapon and try to wrestle again only this time i wont let go and i will, i promise, send you into the sky only to find the earth shortly after.

grab it, move it, then do something to end the fight...... im fine with that. but creating a wrestling match that i am not allow to engage in because of our rules is bullshit.

regards
logan

Thomas MacFinn wrote:Edited for clarity:

Jurgen wrote:I grab polearm hafts on ocassion, and it is a useful technique in certain situations ... Interestingly, I'm rarely tossed around when I grab ... Even that is rare, because usually when I grab, the fight is over almost immediately.

I would guess this is because you are "doing it right". In my lone opinion, a grab to a polearm should be part of a two-part move by someone who can kill you one handed. If you go grab, boom, opponent dead; you are doing it right.

If you go grab, then wrestle around for ten to twenty seconds while you try to figure out what to do next or struggle to draw a too-well-secured dagger, that is when people get tossed around or polearms dropped.

Tomburr wrote:In a duel/tournament, I think its just good form to mention to your opponent that you are carrying a backup weapon, i.e. a dagger. That way, there will be no misunderstanding if you have to resort to using it at some point.

I like having a dagger. It feels much more "real" to me if you have a close-range knife/axe to use in a desperate moment. But I don't condone using it to pull a "bait & switch" on your opponent. If you agree on polearms, be honorable and fight with polearms.
However, if yours gets locked up or otherwise rendered ineffective and your choices are 1)die 2)break da rulz and grapple 3)let go, or 4)go for the dagger, I choose four. It seems the most natural thing to do. I know others don't feel the same way, and would rather let go, inducing a hold, and reset. That seems like a technique that is more on the "sport" side of things. The dagger option seems more on the "history" side to me.

dukelogan wrote:well i thought it was a ballsy move and while he was trying it i kinda froze, unsure of what to do.

and dont worry, i dont let people yield to me unless they are afraid to fight me or ive bested them.

regards
logan

Dietrich von Stroheim wrote:

dukelogan wrote:well i thought it was a ballsy move and while he was trying it i kinda froze, unsure of what to do.

and dont worry, i dont let people yield to me unless they are afraid to fight me or ive bested them.

regards
logan

Hah, reminds me of the time your squire hacked the tip off my spear, and I was the last guy alive on my team. @$%@ yielding, I pulled out my shiv and charged you. Got pretty damn close, I think, but you jacked me with a heavy wrap shot just before I was able to land one on ya.

Fun times! I'll take a glorious death over 'oh well, I don't have a weapon anymore' anyday.