I recall seeing somewhere on the archive calling for evidence that men fought on foot with big shields. I've been meaning to post this, but I kept forgetting. Here goes.
I believe there is pictorial evidence of the latter in Nicolle's "Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era." Granted, it could be argued that some of these are just of dismounted cavalry, it would still count in my mind. Of these, I have listed the pages in which they are actually shown fighting, as opposed to just posing. Also, some of the illustrations (e.g., p.363) that depict shields that could not have possibly been for cavalry use.
Here are the pages showing men on foot with shields:
pp. 361, 363 (in addition to the huge shields mentioned above, it shows a guy fighting with a two handed axe and a shield on a guige strap), 364, 365, 367, 373, 375, 379, 382, 388, 394, 400, 415, 417, 418, 419, 425, 429, 434, 436, 438, 463 (men in ranks, all with big shields, but carrying a variety of weapons), 470, 475, 657, 481 (men in ranks, all with big shields and spears), 483 (ditto), 482, 484, 485, 486, 487, 489, 490, 491, 493, 498 (one guy is fighting with shield and what looks to be a falchion in a reversed, point down grip), 500, 501, 503, and 505.
That would seem to me to be quite a lot of pictorial evidence, all the more convincing since it comes from many different countries.
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The defining characteristic of fanaticism is the inability to understand why everyone else is not a fanatic.
Footmen with shields
Noe,
I don't have the book but thanks for the information. I was one of the guys who argued that historical footmen used larger shields in combat than many of us use today. If you realize that the shields were larger, then you realize the fighting styles had to be developed to match that style of shield.
Vebrand
[This message has been edited by Vebrand (edited 11-24-2002).]
I don't have the book but thanks for the information. I was one of the guys who argued that historical footmen used larger shields in combat than many of us use today. If you realize that the shields were larger, then you realize the fighting styles had to be developed to match that style of shield.
Vebrand
[This message has been edited by Vebrand (edited 11-24-2002).]
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FrauHirsch
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Asbjorn Johansen
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Do they give context for any of the pictures? Are they showing combat in battle or in tournament?
Determining if large shields (not the odd shields that are sometimes shown in judicial combat) were ever commonly used in foot tourneys at any time in Europe before 1600 is one of my personal interests. There are a few interesting references, but so far I have found nothing to indicate that the practice was in any way wide spread. Most of the literary references I have found so far have been to a combatant first being unhorsed, and then continuing the fight using his sword and shield.
I really have to get my hands on a copy of that book some day.
Asbjorn
Determining if large shields (not the odd shields that are sometimes shown in judicial combat) were ever commonly used in foot tourneys at any time in Europe before 1600 is one of my personal interests. There are a few interesting references, but so far I have found nothing to indicate that the practice was in any way wide spread. Most of the literary references I have found so far have been to a combatant first being unhorsed, and then continuing the fight using his sword and shield.
I really have to get my hands on a copy of that book some day.
Asbjorn
Determining if large shields (not the odd shields that are sometimes shown in judicial >combat) were ever commonly used in foot >tourneys at any time in Europe before 1600 >is one of my personal interests. There are >a few interesting references, but so far I >have found nothing to indicate that the >practice was in any way wide spread. Most >of the literary references I have found so >far have been to a combatant first being >unhorsed, and then continuing the fight >using his sword and shield.
Not usually much other than the source and the armour being depicted. As I said, there were many that I did believe were unhorsed nights; however, there were also many that were depicted as fighting in groups and with shields that would not have worked very well on horse. As I said, particularly telling in my mind is the fact that it is so depicted across a number of years and countries. It seems a little too widespread to be just local artistic convention. See if a friend will loan you a copy.
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The defining characteristic of fanaticism is the inability to understand why everyone else is not a fanatic.
Not usually much other than the source and the armour being depicted. As I said, there were many that I did believe were unhorsed nights; however, there were also many that were depicted as fighting in groups and with shields that would not have worked very well on horse. As I said, particularly telling in my mind is the fact that it is so depicted across a number of years and countries. It seems a little too widespread to be just local artistic convention. See if a friend will loan you a copy.
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The defining characteristic of fanaticism is the inability to understand why everyone else is not a fanatic.