Polearm Construction Advice Needed - Northshield/Calontir

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:09 pm

I was about to make a new 6' polearm when news of the rule changes broke. After following the recent rules changing thread, I'm left totally confused. (and I've been playing this game we all love for a while...)

A picture is worth a thousand words. I've attached a picture of the weapon I want to replicate as well as my SCA interpretation of the weapon. I am asking for input as to whether this will pass in Northshield and Calontir under the current rule set AND the proposed rule set. Thank you in advance.

Stephen du Bois · Post by **Stephen du Bois** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:07 am

Based on my conversations with the NS KEM (we are both pole arm Knights) is it looks legal in NS depending on how (dimensions) the back spike on the false edge is constructed.

Stephen

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:15 am

It LOOKS like it would be legal in Calontir. HOWEVER, I see a few things that could be issues.

1. Thrusting tip on end of the By My Hand crepe foam. I don't think this is illegal, but I can see it as being a weak point in construction, something that will fail in short order.

2. Foam clacker striking surface. Calontir regs say Minimum of 1/2" progressive give while NOT bottoming out. So, if you ONLY have 1/2" of foam on the edge, it probably will not work. Add the clacker to the edge you will have to be extra careful about the progressive give.

3. The back spike could not be used to strike at all.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:09 am

Thank you for the replys, the input has been very helpful.

InsaneIrish wrote:1. Thrusting tip on end of the By My Hand crepe foam. I don't think this is illegal, but I can see it as being a weak point in construction, something that will fail in short order.

This was a point of concern for me as well. I can deviate from the original by extending the pole the full length and attaching the thrusting tip in the traditional manner.

The back hook is a bit exaggerated in the photo. My plan was to make just enough of a nub to grab shields with, not to strike with in any manner.

While at Lilies War this summer I found that people were legitimately unaware that they had been struck by my padded polearm with no clacker. Several fighters stopped by later to apologize which was very thoughtful, but unnecessary. No harm, no foul. It's very difficult, in the heat of melee, to realize that the "push" you felt was a padded polearm and not some guy running into you. Since many of us also rely on sound to judge a hit, I feel the need to add a clacker. I just want to do it right.

Again, thank you for responding and any more comments would definitely be welcome as well!

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:23 am

InsaneIrish wrote:2. Foam clacker striking surface. Calontir regs say Minimum of 1/2" progressive give while NOT bottoming out. So, if you ONLY have 1/2" of foam on the edge, it probably will not work. Add the clacker to the edge you will have to be extra careful about the progressive give.

I agree. If I use 3/4" of softer foam under the clacker, I should easily meet the 1/2" progressive give rule. Thank you!

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:55 pm

Scott H. wrote: While at Lilies War this summer I found that people were legitimately unaware that they had been struck by my padded polearm with no clacker. Several fighters stopped by later to apologize which was very thoughtful, but unnecessary. No harm, no foul. It's very difficult, in the heat of melee, to realize that the "push" you felt was a padded polearm and not some guy running into you. Since many of us also rely on sound to judge a hit, I feel the need to add a clacker. I just want to do it right.

Again, thank you for responding and any more comments would definitely be welcome as well!

Were these Calontir Fighters that missed the shot? From my experience fighters coming from kingdoms with unpadded poles have a harder time judging a good hit with our padded poles. Our own fighters usually have no problem. If you are having problems with in kingdom fighters taking your shots, I would look to the construction of your padding. Take it to a practice and talk with the more experienced fighters and see what they think.

clackers are not illegal in Calontir they are just newer in use. The rule allowing them has been on the books for a long time, but only recently have their use become popular.

My only advise is to make your squishy foam bit more squishy than normal as a clacker transfers more force than straight padding.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:06 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:...I would look to the construction of your padding.

You are very intuitive! My umpteenth polearm build after more than a dozen years ended up with a very "squishy" head. Time was short and the war wagons were heading south so I left it the way it was.

Off Topic: Lilies War is the highlight of my SCA year, every year. I can't wait for the next war. The welcoming atmosphere, fighting, camping, vendors, fireworks and parties all combine to create and ideal experience for me. Primarily a melee fighter all these years, I branched off and fought in a tournament (the Children's Tournament) for the first time. What fun! I only made it to the second round, but I'll make a better showing next year.

Thank you again.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:24 am

If you see me at Lilies (or other event) make sure to say hi!

I look like this:

(I'm the fat guy in the purple dress.)

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:39 pm

Well met InsaneIrish! We fought together on the field. I was the only guy with a barred houndskull visor bascinet. You are more than welcome to my camp next war for a beer or twelve.

sha-ul · Post by **sha-ul** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:29 pm

Scott H. wrote:Well met InsaneIrish! We fought together on the field. I was the only guy with a barred houndskull visor bascinet. You are more than welcome to my camp next war for a beer or twelve.

do you have a side view of that visor?

Eamonn · Post by **Eamonn** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:31 pm

I really like that kit Scott.

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:55 pm

I checked both Society, and Calontir's(2007) Marshal's Handbooks.

One or the other (at least, maybe both) at one time specifically stated (IIRC) that thrusting tips had to be attached to the rattan shaft, now it is more implied.

From the two handed section (and the single handed mirrors this):

5. When thrusting tips are used, they shall be no less than 2 inches (50.8 mm) in diameter/cross-section and have 2 inches (50.8 mm) of resilient material in front of the rigid tip of the weapon, thereby providing progressively resistant give.

I think that you will have unsatisfactory results with any striking or thrusting surface that is not directly connected with the rattan. Even if you put leather on the sides of the head, it will probably flex more than you want- if your goal is to have your opponents recognize that they have been solidly struck. The same goes for thrusts, but even more so.

Make the head completely backed by rattan, and taped/etc to look like the picture you have if you want happy fighting results.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:43 am

sha-ul wrote:do you have a side view of that visor?

Yes, I've attached it below. I bent the rod and made the hinges; a buddy welded it up for me. It's easily interchangeable with my real houndskull visor (as seen in my avatar).

Eamonn wrote:I really like that kit Scott.

Thank you. It's been many years in the making. I left off the hauberk, real houndskull visor and sabatons for Lilies War. Man, it gets HOT down south!

Baron Alcyoneus wrote:Make the head completely backed by rattan, and taped/etc to look like the picture you have if you want happy fighting results.

Yes, I've come to that conclusion as well. I originally toyed with the idea as diagramed above in an effort to have something as close to the original as possible. The practical concerns you and others have pointed out have made me rethink the design.

I appreciate everyone's input. I'm off to the local "rattan furniture superstore" this afternoon, and not to buy a chair.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:11 am

Scott H. wrote:I left off the hauberk, real houndskull visor and sabatons for Lilies War. Man, it gets HOT down south!

Lilies is "down south"?

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:19 am

Jestyr wrote:
Scott H. wrote:I left off the hauberk, real houndskull visor and sabatons for Lilies War. Man, it gets HOT down south!
Lilies is "down south"?

When you live in Minnesota, everything is "south".

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:36 pm

If "I" were making such a weapon I would design the head as such:

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:41 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:If "I" were making such a weapon I would design the head as such:

Nice! May I ask what program you are using for making illustrations? You posted an excellent helmet padding illustration on another thread recently. Well done.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:43 pm

Scott H. wrote:
InsaneIrish wrote:If "I" were making such a weapon I would design the head as such:
Nice! May I ask what program you are using for making illustrations? You posted an excellent helmet padding illustration on another thread recently. Well done.

I am a graphic Designer by Trade. I use the full Adobe Suite. For stuff like this I use Adobe Illustrator CS3.

DukeAvery · Post by **DukeAvery** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:48 pm

The one in front, carrying the attack to the 'foe'?

Nice dress.

InsaneIrish wrote:If you see me at Lilies (or other event) make sure to say hi!

I look like this:

(I'm the fat guy in the purple dress.)

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:44 pm

It makes his ass look big.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:53 pm

Baron Alcyoneus wrote:It makes his ass look big.

Why are you looking at my ass?

Benedek · Post by **Benedek** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:49 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:
Baron Alcyoneus wrote:It makes his ass look big.
Why are you looking at my ass?

Don't get too flattered, he does that to everyone.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:54 pm

Benedek wrote:
InsaneIrish wrote:
Baron Alcyoneus wrote:It makes his ass look big.
Why are you looking at my ass?
Don't get too flattered, he does that to everyone.

FLATTERED? no...SCARED?......maybe.

Hrolfr · Post by **Hrolfr** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:03 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:
Benedek wrote:
InsaneIrish wrote:
Baron Alcyoneus wrote:It makes his ass look big.
Why are you looking at my ass?
Don't get too flattered, he does that to everyone.

FLATTERED? no...SCARED?......maybe.

Alcy and Alejandro. The thought of them make MANY things worried

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:17 pm

Holy cow.

Step away from the computer for a few hours and ... well ...

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:09 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:
Benedek wrote:
InsaneIrish wrote:
Baron Alcyoneus wrote:It makes his ass look big.
Why are you looking at my ass?
Don't get too flattered, he does that to everyone.

FLATTERED? no...SCARED?......maybe.

Maybe I shouldn't but...here's a true story.

I went to Estrella c2002, and my then wife asked me to say hi to Eringlen *in a particular fashion* (because she often did this with him). I...agreed to do so.

So one night, I walked up behind him, and grabbed a handful of his left buttock. He turned saw it was me and very much looked like a deer in the headlights. I said "Maeve says 'Hi!' ", and the relief on his face was very great when he realized I was grabbing for her, and NOT for me!