The Armour Archive

Hello, I am new to the re-enctment-combat world, I have a few questions about the events held at a typical medievil torney,
I am a pastor by trade, and more familiar with boxing and wrestling than sca type combat though I have been practicing for the last 8 months(sca), (not to different from sparring in the boxing ring suprisingly)
My question is from the movie a Knights tale, is there a form of combat like the scenes in which the main character competes in the sword on foot catagory, I am looking for ideas for a youth program I am starting and if you could help I would greatly appreciate it, I like the scoring with white flags part of the torn., if this is not purely historical lisc. could someone describe how it worked.

thank you
rev. J.C. Mullooly

the sca should not be considered a re-enactment society in any regards. a living history or "enactment" society perhaps. but simply stated we do not 're-enact' anything (being something specific). the proper spelling is actually "medieval" (the common modern inclination to put the word "evil" into it is incorrect). 8^)

all those little things aside, you will find many similarities between sca combat and boxing. being a boxer (well, an ex-boxer) myself i found many cross over benefits. as a practiced wrestler (more submission stuff used in a modern setting) i think that wrestling is also very important in the modern sca combat structure. explore both of those as far as you can and you will find, i am sure, great benefits with your sca fighting. not sure about your question though. can you elaborate a bit?

best regards
logan

I used to do Tae Kwon Do and the scoring was based on what the judges saw. As I interpreted the scene you are talking about in Knight's Tale, the judges were doing the scoring. The problem is that judges don't see everything. They sometimes seem downright blind. Like the guy throwing a punch that doesn't even land, giving a loud kiai and getting a point scored. What?

Now, the reason I like SCA fighting so very much is that there is a level of trust between the fighters. I trust the other guy to be fair in calling my blows, just as he trusts me to do the same.

For a youth program, I would personally want to promote the personal honor and trust aspects that you get in SCA combat. If it doesn't feel good, don't take it. And trust the other guy to take the good ones, too. With a referee doing all the scoring (even if there are spiffy little flags - I like them, too) the need for trust is gone and people won't be taking the blows unless they get called on them.

Instead of the SCA-style falling down and dying when hit, maybe a counted-blows tourney would be best. The guy getting hit calls out when there is a good shot, just saying "one" or "two" or whatever number of times he has been hit. The scorekeeper can still do the little flags so it is easy for the audience to see what is going on, but all of the scoring is still done on the honor system.

Just some thoughts.

-Patrick

For a good idea of tourneys and personal combat I would recomend the Sword and the Centuries by Alfred Hutton, it is an excellant read full of first and second hand sources.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/185367513X/qid=1062509051/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-9251335-7868113?v=glance&s=books

I would also recommend:Jousts and Tournaments
and Book of the Tournaments, both of which you can get through Chivalry Bookshelf.
http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com/

If this is a youth program you may want to consider padded weapons. Flonzy on the Archive here has made some really nice looking ones in the past that are pretty safe for children. Several years of enthusiastic testing by kids from 6 on up have shown them to be safe and fun.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy/boffers.html



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"As long as there are fanatics there will always be heretics"
http://www.caerdubh.com/coeurdeleon/index.html

Going back to your original question, most SCA tournament combat is more like the foot combat in the movie than the jousting, simply becasue we do not use horses for fighting.

The main difference, apart from the judging point alrady mentioned, is that we do not use right of way. In the movie, the first fighter gets seven blows while the other guy sdefends, then they change over. SCA combat is usually simultaneous with both fighters hitting and defending at the same time and may end after a "good" blow to a lethal area (head, torso) or after a prearranged number of good blows to any legal target. (There are other options of course).

Another big difference is that SCA fighting usually allows a mix of weapons. Weapon and shield is most common (usually with a sword as the "weapon" although mace or axe are also seen). However, you will also see fighters with greatswords like in the movie, pole weapons (halberds etc), two swords, mid-length axes and so on. Spears (very long thrusting weapons) are usually confined to "wars" (multiple-participant combat), as are all types of missile weapon (bows, javelins) and war machines. Some tourney formats specify matched weapons, but usually each fighter will take his favoured form.

Try to visit an SCA tourney if you can, to get a better picture of what goes on. Alternatively, there are videos online of individual tourney bouts.

Cheers

Adam L
/aethstan /sca drachenwald

From a purely spectatorial viewpoint, I would hate to see the "deaths" fade away. Beats just having to be told who won anyday.