"The Sword in Two Hands by Brian Price" review wan

[wilmot]

Hi,
I know Master Talbot and Viscount Menken and they are two of the best SCA peers I have known in the 35 years I have been involved with the SCA have never heard them speak this way of ANYONE BEFORE, EVER. Brian I urge you in the strongest possible terms to deal with these issues now and redeem what you can of your reputation or you regret all of this for many years to come.

Duke Ronald

[Gethin]

Has anyone shared this thread with the AEMMA or HEMA Alliance folks? I know it's on myArmoury and a few others but shouldn't they know? THe Schola Saint George folks I mean.

We of S.S.G. S.F. are aware.

[Ed Toton]

And that single reason is why this thread fills me with joy. It is a huge pleasure to see a house cleaning. I am filled with admiration for those who have spoken up here, told a painful truth at personal cost to do the right thing and warn others so that they are not victimized in turn. This is difficult to do. Go read Sir Vitus' thread "The Confessional" if you want to fully understand the mindset. The only way ugly things are destroyed fully is to shine a gigantic floodlight on them, paint a huge day glow X over them, and have everyone stare at it for a half an hour. That is the purpose of this thread, and again, it fills me with great joy.

This.

As much as it pains me to see that this sort of injustice has been going on for years, and I take no pleasure in other people's problems, I'm immensely pleased to see this thread. The truth needs to be known if justice is to be served, and potential victims are to be saved.

It probably should have happened sooner, but that hardly matters anymore. It's out now. And I'm glad for it.

[Talbot]

What I don't understand is if this person was so bad, why did it take this many years to report it to the community? If it is true what everyone is saying hasn't the silence (for this long a time) served to aid and abeit this wrong doing to others?

I have remained quiet because it is not in my nature to badmouth a person. I have been close personal friends with Brian for decades. My fondest memories of Pennsic involve a long rainy night where Brian and his wife Ann and myself and my wife Amy sat around telling stories. I have never laughed so hard in my life.

Brian and I drifted apart as business dealings soured and he became more and more closemouthed about my book and what was happening with it. Eventually, once I regained publishing rights to my book, we parted ways with a heavily strained relationship and have had no further communication. However, I am one who firmly believes in turning the other cheek. I am not vengeful or vindictive. I thought I was alone in being screwed over by Brian and it made me deeply sad rather than angry. I cannot conceive of how such a close friend as Brian had fallen to far as to betray his close friend like this. But this was all personal.

I have never spoken publically about this until this thread. Upon reading it I realized that I am not alone and this represents a pattern of behavior. I felt I needed to post so as to prevent others falling victim to Brian ways. I pray for him and fervently hope he can find peace in his life by making right what was wrong.

[juan]

Has anyone shared this thread with the AEMMA or HEMA Alliance folks? I know it's on myArmoury and a few others but shouldn't they know? THe Schola Saint George folks I mean.

Schola folks are aware. There's a number of us on the Archive. For instance, I am a member, and so is Brandr, who BTW is the SSG treasurer.

It should also be pointed out, in light of what Lady Charlotte, that the SSG has just been granted federal 503 tax-exempt status, which doesn't happen unless all the corporate paperwork is in order.

[Greg Mele]

Juan,

Having now gone through 501c(3) twice - and being in the process right now for a third time, the final grant often comes quite some time after determination is made. Ie: the IRS is often lagging behind how the corporate status appears with the state.

My issues are with Brian, not the SSG and I hope that all is resolved for the school. But if the SSG *does* have final 501c status, AND it *is* in arrears, then that opens a huge can of liability for the board and officers that you want no part of. The problem is that the Texas Comptroller's office seems quite confident that the SSG has been dissolved for tax delinquency.Even if this was a paperwork snafu, the fact that it has languished for over a year can be crippling to fix, depending on state statutes.

How you all handle that is up to you, and I really don't think that is our business. But I'd make damn sure with a live human from that office that this is truly resolved, and for the love of God, don't rely on Brian's word! This is precisely the sort of "dog ate the homework" tales that always surround him, and it affects far too many people.

Best of luck.

Greg

[Talbot]

I just sent Brian the following email. I will let you know how he responds.

Brian,
In the “Sword in Two Hands” thread on the Armour Archive, you stated, "Regarding your armour bits, yes, I do acknowledge the debt for these." and later suggested, "With Talbot, Vitus, or any other individual who feels personally wronged, I warmly invite you to contact me directly and we'll work out a solution." I am taking you up on this.

As far as I am concerned the other matters are in the past. I have stated my feelings about them and you have responded. In that matter I am done. However, there is the matter of the outstanding armour pieces. If you wish to make good on this I would welcome it. I fully understand that while completing your doctorate you do not have time to get into the shop to make these items for me. I certainly would not have had time while completing mine. I would be glad to accept other items you have in stock in compensation so we can put this matter to rest. We would have to determine a mutually agreeable fair market value for the items owed.

One reasonable thing you could do would be to provide me with copies of books by Christian Tobler, Dr. Forgeng, Guy Windsor or other authors who are owed royalties. I could then pass them on to these authors thereby allowing them to sell them personally and receive some measure of compensation for their work. This would not in any way relieve you of debts owed to them but it would make me feel as if I am helping out in some small way. I am open to other offers if you prefer. I await your reply.

Dr. Douglas W. Strong
1 Wooded Lane
Hawthorn Woods, IL 60047
doug-strong@comcast.net

[Marco-borromei]

Please understand my comments here are NOT IN ANY WAY meant to take sides. I'm just urging that individuals reading this be cautious.

Some people involved have stated they're taking legal action. Good. I assume that's based on edvidence and will be handled fairly by the courts. I look forward to the result.

For the rest of us not directly party to a lawsuit, there is a lot of risk for BOTH sides of this argument in treating anything here as "evidence." I fall for it sometimes, too, and I sometimes deal with investigations for a living. These accusations, while brutal, are not necessarily "evidence."

Anyone can register an account as Price or Tobler and say whatever they want. Courts will determine the quality of evidence, not make a decision based on this thread.

The records on the Texas web site could be out of date or in error. On the other hand, email announcements on other lists could be false, careless, anticipitory, or hopeful. Courts will sopena the actual records to make a decision.

I have never personally seen Internet Wayback Machine results accepted as evidence by a court. I've only seen two occasions where an attorney tried. Maybe a different court and a different case would.

Even comparison of texts, while damming, may or may not be actionable.

Regardless, I'm glad that people are stating FACTS they know first hand. SOEMTHING is wrong, and it wil finally come to light in court. People with firsthand FACTS will be involved in that.

Something is wrong, and it may affect some of us. If so, go ahead and take precautions. That might mean you change your spending habits, stop makign referrals until you can be certain, or just ask more questions. I've posted on the SSG board asking for details about the insurance baceuse that's what may impact me. I have no facts to offer about royalties, rights, or contracts.

Keep airing your first hand experiences, and offer assistance to whichever main characters you may be able to help.
Ask questions about stuff that effects you.
Make decisions about what YOU will do differently.

Wait for the legal action to finish.

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, juan,

Schola folks are aware. There's a number of us on the Archive. For instance, I am a member, and so is Brandr, who BTW is the SSG treasurer.

It should also be pointed out, in light of what Lady Charlotte, that the SSG has just been granted federal 503 tax-exempt status, which doesn't happen unless all the corporate paperwork is in order.

I'm afraid your confidence is misplaced.

Unfortunately, the grant of 501(c)(3) status is not a reliable indicator whatsoever of whether "all the corporate paperwork is in order" at the time that exempt status is granted by the IRS.

I'm in the process myself of shepherding a 501(c)(3) application through the IRS on behalf of a non-profit on whose board I serve, and it can take well over a year from the time the application is submitted until the time that the IRS grants or denies it. Moreover, the IRS only requires that the applicant include a copy of the original articles of incorporation, not any subsequent physical or documentary evidence of whether the corporation remains in good standing with the state of its formation at the time of application or, often, much later, at the time the IRS makes a determination of exempt status.

From page 7, first column, of the IRS's Instructions for Form 1023 (Rev. June 2006) Application for Recognition of Exemption Under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code:

Certification of filing. If formed under state statute, your articles of incorporation must show certification of filing. This means your articles show evidence that on a specific date they were filed with and approved by an appropriate state authority. The document must be an exact copy of what is on file with your state.

This means, of course, that an application could have been correctly filed with the IRS prior to August 9, 2009 and only just now have been granted despite the forfeiture of SSG's status by the State of Texas (a copy of which is attached to my previous post).

The IRS, by the way, so regularly revokes 501(c)(3) determinations that it advises anyone checking an organization's status in its database (the "Cumulative List") to check, as well, Recent Revocations of 501(c)(3) Determinations - Latest Additions and Table of Links.

I take no pleasure whatsoever, mind you, in this situation as it affects the students and other instructors of SSG, but given the potentially significant liabilities and penalties that "organization managers" may be subject to for violations of IRS regulations, I hope such folks at SSG will promptly seek expert advice for their own sakes. For example,

The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.

Lady Charlotte

[Kel Rekuta]

Has anyone shared this thread with the AEMMA or HEMA Alliance folks? I know it's on myArmoury and a few others but shouldn't they know? THe Schola Saint George folks I mean.

Yeah, we know he's a weasel. What's that got to do with AEMMA? Unfortunately I have been unable to ween the newbs off of Price's crappy fencing gloves. Someone else might have better luck.

[Christian H. Tobler]

Hi Kel,

They can get them from Purpleheart, who are *not* getting them from Brian.

Cheers!

Christian

[Vitus von Atzinger]

This thread has been so depressing.

[Aaron]

This thread has been so depressing.

The Furious Wheel turns sir.

-Aaron

[Christian H. Tobler]

This thread has been so depressing.

Agreed Vitus. But here's my challenge, from knight to knight: Let's let this reminder of how things *shouldn't* be done spur us towards ensuring our dealings with others are all the more on the up and up in the months that follow.

Even a negative example can be a fine teacher. (And yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but we all sometimes need to hear once more what our hearts already know.)

Take care,

Christian

[David Teague]

Hello All,

I've know of this since 2007...

I've heard the sad tales of dealing with BP from a number of my WMA friends face to face at events: Christian, Greg, Hans Heim, Paul Wagner... while I don't know the owners of the Fettered Cock I did have another vendor tell me face to face that BP has stolen his buckle and strap designs with cheap knockoff castings (I'm not saying the person's name as they have not chimed in on this thread).

A while back Westland started offering their goods direct to AA members as they had been stiffed for a large sum after making delivery... guess who? At the time Westland didn't say Who but it didn't take Dr Watson & Sherlock Homes to solve that mystery as a certain internet company had announced they had just received a large shipment of goods 45 days before.

I for one am glad the genie is out of the bottle.

Yours,

David

[Woodsende]

For personal reasons, Brian Price has stepped down as President of the
Schola Saint George and left the Schola Board of Directors.

In response, the Board of Directors has called an emergency meeting
and will issue a statement within 48 hours. We ask for your
forbearance during that time.

In addition, we are asking all SSG members to suspend official Schola
Saint George practices, training and activities until the Board of
Directors has resolved any possible issues with our insurance.

Robert Holland
Schola Saint George Founder, Provost & Vice President

[David Teague]

Hello All,

I use my own insurance policy to teach WMA with (Selohaar does have it's policy) as my group also does living history.

If you find the need to get insurance may I recommend:

Francis L. Dean & Associates as a 2 mil policy cost $465 and covers up to 50 students (instructors are covered with out count) there is a extra fee per student over 50.

Cheers,

David

[Payn]

Hello All,

I use my own insurance policy to teach WMA with (Selohaar does have it's policy) as my group also does living history.

If you find the need to get insurance may I recommend:

Francis L. Dean & Associates as a 2 mil policy cost $465 and covers up to 50 students (instructors are covered with out count) there is a extra fee per student over 50.

Cheers,

David

Awesome information. Thanks for it!

[Jon Barber]

Hello All,

I use my own insurance policy to teach WMA with (Selohaar does have it's policy) as my group also does living history.

If you find the need to get insurance may I recommend:

Francis L. Dean & Associates as a 2 mil policy cost $465 and covers up to 50 students (instructors are covered with out count) there is a extra fee per student over 50.

We also use F.L. Dean (have for years) and have always been very pleased with the coverage and service.

[Jonathan Mayshar]

Dean carries the HEMA Alliance policy as well. Good service, and a great price-flexible solution for us with affiliates of different sizes. Several of our members have positive experiences with them from before we existed, including HEMA, JSA, and other martial arts.

[JoshLittle]

Not to be a "me too" bird, but Ars Gladii also uses F.L. Dean for our insurance. We've had good dealings with them over the years, but thankfully never in terms of claims service so I can't speak to that. I will say that we did not have any issues with the local school district we are now renting space from accepting their policy.

[Aaron]

Hello All,

I use my own insurance policy to teach WMA with (Selohaar does have it's policy) as my group also does living history.

If you find the need to get insurance may I recommend:

Francis L. Dean & Associates as a 2 mil policy cost $465 and covers up to 50 students (instructors are covered with out count) there is a extra fee per student over 50.

Cheers,

David

This is great news! Thank you!

-Aaron

[Adrielle Kerrec]

Is there anyway to let the SCA major wars Merchant liasons aware of the concerns noted in this thread?

[Leo Medii]

I just sent Brian the following email. I will let you know how he responds.

Brian,
In the “Sword in Two Hands” thread on the Armour Archive, you stated, "Regarding your armour bits, yes, I do acknowledge the debt for these." and later suggested, "With Talbot, Vitus, or any other individual who feels personally wronged, I warmly invite you to contact me directly and we'll work out a solution." I am taking you up on this.

As far as I am concerned the other matters are in the past. I have stated my feelings about them and you have responded. In that matter I am done. However, there is the matter of the outstanding armour pieces. If you wish to make good on this I would welcome it. I fully understand that while completing your doctorate you do not have time to get into the shop to make these items for me. I certainly would not have had time while completing mine. I would be glad to accept other items you have in stock in compensation so we can put this matter to rest. We would have to determine a mutually agreeable fair market value for the items owed.

One reasonable thing you could do would be to provide me with copies of books by Christian Tobler, Dr. Forgeng, Guy Windsor or other authors who are owed royalties. I could then pass them on to these authors thereby allowing them to sell them personally and receive some measure of compensation for their work. This would not in any way relieve you of debts owed to them but it would make me feel as if I am helping out in some small way. I am open to other offers if you prefer. I await your reply.

Dr. Douglas W. Strong
1 Wooded Lane
Hawthorn Woods, IL 60047
doug-strong@comcast.net

Hi Talbot, can you keep us informed how this turns out? I'd like to know if I have a chance of seeing my deposit or some gauntlets at some point.
Thanks!

[Christian H. Tobler]

Dear Robert,

I'm sorry that you and the SSG have to go through this.

Please know that I hold the members of your school in high esteem and hope that these matters can be resolved in a way that allows SSG to move forward.

Yours,

Christian

[Kel Rekuta]

Hi Kel,

They can get them from Purpleheart, who are *not* getting them from Brian.

Cheers!

Christian

I'd rather they didn't get them at all. They are clumsy, hot and leave the wearers' hands black and blue from the cheap dye job in the cheap upholstery leather the things are made of. Oh, but they're BLACK and therefore ubber cool. Piffle.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I've done enough. Good luck, everyone.

[Hrolfr]

What I will comment on is the overall taste this thread leaves in my mouth. From an outsider looking in, there does seem to be something of an "angry mob" mentality going on here.

HMMMMM

Do you feel the same way about Bernie Madoff???

They are one and the same

Conmen and thieves

[Gaston de Clermont]

Hrolfr- I feel they're fundamentally different. Madoff created a pyramid scheme whose intent from the beginning was simply to make himself a ton of money at the expense of others. I think with Brian he started out with the best of intentions. He wanted to share some great historical work and armour with people because it's something he's passionate about. I know there are a lot of great books on my shelves, and armour in my shop that are a direct result of the good work he has done. Some of his ventures failed, and he's done some painful flailing trying to fix the situation, and made it far worse. He's screwed up, lost a lot of his reputation and many of his friends, and it's clear that he knows it.

This thread feels like seeing a man set himself on fire (it has to be by accident, clearly he didn't want this) and criticizing him for not going through the stop, drop and roll routine right away. He's burned other people in the process. He's saying things like, "I deeply regret the failure," "My communications during this time have been poor, I will freely admit," and "I have always said that chivalry is not a matter of acting with perfection (although I wish I were better at it), but is rather a question of making suitable amends after a wrong has occurred."

People may doubt the sincerity of his words given the scope of this, the number of well respected people who have been injured here, and the amount of time that has past. But it looks to me like he's down. It's time to stop kicking him. If there are legitimate law suits going on, fine, that's what our legal system is for. The contracts that authors and manufacturers have with him should be honored. Some of the other cries I'm hearing here of "burn the witch!" just seem mean. The witch is already on fire.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

>The witch is already on fire.


WOW! What a great quote!!!

[Gerhard von Liebau]

I agree. That quote is the most prophetic thing to come out of this thread. Friggin' awesome! I'd like to add that last year I had my only transaction with Brian, and although there was a problem because I was shipped the wrong item (which turned out merely to be the wrong size, but looked quite different than what I expected as well) I was offered a full refund and promptly paid for it. Shipping both ways was on me, though. So I have a rather neutral feel towards the guy from personal experience... I think the main issues here revolve around his big business practices, rather than his attention to smaller, menial tasks expected from running his company. If he had a product of little value on his site that I really wanted, I would probably still purchase from him.

-Gerhard

[Greg Mele]

Dear Robert,

I am sorry that it came to this, but very glad that the SSG Board is aware of the problems and acting swiftly to resolve them. As I said before, I have nothing but good to say of yourself, Colin and the SSG students who have taken classes from me, and I would hate for someone's non-feasance or malfeasance to endanger the entire organization.

Since Brian is no longer a part of the Schola's administration, I can only assume - and hope - that no one will say any more about it here, and will let the school sort out its corporate issues, so that it might turn back to the far more desirable issue of training in the martial arts.

Best wishes to you all,

Gregory

[freiman the minstrel]

The astonishing thing is that I believe I have seen the complete destruction of a man's reputation in ten days.

I am just sitting here stunned.

f

[Baron Eirik]

In this case, it appears that it has been a false reputation fro some time and he is earning the reknown of his deeds.

[Greg Mele]

In ten days but twenty years in the making. That's the part that needs to be remembered: it was a reputation that wasn't deserved. Either that or a whole lot of people with good reputations of their own, some of whom have no contact with one another, are amazing liars.

There is nothing here to take pleasure in; only that these repeated abuses of people's goodwill and trust, the theft of their intellectual property and money, is coming to an end.

In the "Book of the Tournament", Brian wrote to eloquently of the mechanism of renown; sadly he has now proved the negative example of how it works.