"The Sword in Two Hands by Brian Price" review wan

[Black Swan Designs]

Thankfully, I have no horse in this race. Having joined the SCA right about the time Chris Gilman was having his troubles, and being friends with the (uncredited) maker of the nice leg harness delivered, my opinion of Mr. Price got an abrupt and decisive jump start.

A couple of years ago I was in contact with the owner of Past Tents regarding the trailer full of his product which was 'stolen'. I helped him find a lawyer in Texas, but he decided to sell the company rather than pursue litigation.

I was in contact with Westland shortly after they came on the scene, and got the story about the shoe delivery to a 'US supplier'. They felt their interests were better served by keeping their cards covered and selling direct rather than pointing fingers and naming names. I believed their story, which is why I endorsed their sales.

Over the years, Jeff and I have managed to avoid falling victim by maintaining a very prickly demeanor to Mr. Price, and by plastering copyright / intellectual property disclaimers all over anything he buys. My heart is in my throat every time we ship him something, but I can find no legitimate reason to decline his purchases. I also don't want to set off the poo storm documented by others who have crossed him.

So while I have not been personally affected, I know what's been going on, and cannot begin to express the depth of my thanks to those who have stepped forward to bring these situations to light. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you gentlemen have done the right thing.

If you or anyone else questions whether your actions are 'chivalrous' or not, I submit the laws of one of the most famous chivalric orders in history, the Toison d’Or (Order of the Golden Fleece). The Toison d'Or permitted public denunciations of members for violations of their statutes as well as for dishonourable activities such as adultery and licentiousness.* 'Rene of Anjou, King of Sicily, and the Order of the Croissant, M.T. Reynolds ( Journal of Medieval History, 1993)

Gwen


(*licentiousness- 1. Lacking moral discipline or ignoring legal restraint, especially in sexual conduct. 2. Having no regard for accepted rules or standards.)

[Jeff J]

The trailer incident Gwen's references:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... ler+stolen

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, Mike F,

Such a lawsuit will take months or years and cost a large sum of money. At the end of the suit the judge can make decisions very similar to what you describe, or any other terms (within legal limits) to make sure the debts are paid but the payer isn't bled dry.

It comes down to what the judge decides is appropriate, assuming he finds evidence conclusive to there being a violated contract or a legally binding debt.

I don't think it's likely to be anywhere near as difficult concerning the claims of the uncompensated Chivalry Bookshelf authors as it might be in a commercial case. I agree with Conn Cullach, who's had experience in such matters:

This isn't primarily a collections issue, based on the aired grievances, it's an intellectual property rights issue, which is pretty easy to prove in court if there's evidence of a breach in contract (which Mr. Price's post may constitute, considering his admittance of nonpayment to authors their royalties, however small they may be).

The futility of legal action is more myth than fact. Especially in these kinds of cases. In the case of publisher breach of contract, authors are most likely looking at return of copyright, possible seizure of unsold stock, and/or payment of lost royalties in addition to legal fees. Chances of settlement are high.

Librarians pay attention to the abuse of authors by publishers (remember what happened with Michael Moore's second book when Harper Collins threatened to pulp it?), so I tend to follow situations like this very, very closely, and I've noticed over the years that judges tend to punish publishers who breach their contracts with authors. This is not a case, either, it seems to me, that could be dragged out for years especially given that Mr. Price has already admitted publicly to not paying at least some of his authors as required.

There's really nothing much to debate in that case, then, except how many books were sold in order to determine the amount of the past due royalties, and there are independent sources for much of that information, such as Neilson's.

But like Jeff alluded to, the lawyers will make tens of thousands of dollars on the deal, perhaps hundreds, and that will be payed by one or both parties.

Court cases between states are almost as difficult as court cases between nations. The legal systems are all different, you have to argue over where to try the case (and thus whose laws to use) and then travel possibly hundreds of miles to get to a court room.

This is why we have a Federal court system, and in most cases the plaintiffs get to choose which court to file suit in, so Mr. Price is likely to be the one having to travel.

Short answer: There are options. But you need to really want to do it and dedicate months or years to it.

Not always:

Judgment: (P) - for Plaintiff Judgment Amt: 250.00 7/3/07 PLAINTIFF APPEARED, DEFENDANT APPEARED. JUDGE TOOK CASE UNDER ADVISEMENT. 7/11/07 JUDGE RULED FOR PLAINTIFF; $250.00 DAMAGES, $322.00 ATTORNEY FEES PLUS $72.00 COURT COSTS. JUDGMENT FOR PLAINTIFF

That's from Denton County, Texas Case No. S07-076J3, KEVIN RICER vs. BRIAN PRICE (screenshot of docket attached, below).

Lady Charlotte

[Aaron]

If you or anyone else questions whether your actions are 'chivalrous' or not, I submit the laws of one of the most famous chivalric orders in history, the Toison d’Or (Order of the Golden Fleece). The Toison d'Or permitted public denunciations of members for violations of their statutes as well as for dishonourable activities such as adultery and licentiousness.* 'Rene of Anjou, King of Sicily, and the Order of the Croissant, M.T. Reynolds ( Journal of Medieval History, 1993)

Gwen


(*licentiousness- 1. Lacking moral discipline or ignoring legal restraint, especially in sexual conduct. 2. Having no regard for accepted rules or standards.)

There was one time I thought adultery and licentiousness were requirements for becoming a SCA knight. I have my bad days when I still think that, but more than half the knights I've met have been decent human beings.

How the KSCAs react to this will help me see if the glass is half-full or half-empty, and what was in that glass.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Some dickheads have the ability to behave just long enough to get what they want.

More coming on this topic.

[Maeryk]

Some dickheads have the ability to behave just long enough to get what they want.

More coming on this topic.

Shall we break it into another thread? you KNOW I have some thoughts to add.

[Galleron]

In Chronique Issue #10, Brian price reprinted my copyrighted illustrations from Elizabeth Bennett's translation of King Rene's Tournament Book without attribution or my permission, on pages 37, 43, and 60. You can see the the illustrations here:

http://www.princeton.edu/~ezb/rene/renehome.html

In the same issue, he reprinted illustrations from Claude Blair's European Armour without attribution on pages 46 and 49

[Chris Gilman]

Gwen put it “…and being friends with the (uncredited) maker of the nice leg harness delivered…”.
Interestingly Gwen, Brian did not in fact make that leg harness, it was made by a fellow named Gavin Danker. Over the years, many of the more highly acclaimed pieces of armour coming from Brian’s shop where made by Luke Apker or others. Luke worked for Brian for any years and produced some very nice work. At one point when Brian was renting a house in the san fernando valley here in LA., There was a barn where Brian had a shop. In the less secured section of the barn a number of friends and associates of Brian had fighter practice. Luke told me that one night he found his helmet had been stolen. People where quite shocked that someone in this “tight” group of friends would do this. There were many fingers pointed and feelings got hurt. The commotion calmed down over time and I had forgotten about it. Then one day a few years later the stolen helmet comes up in conversation with Luke and I, Luke tells me he ran into the guy at Pennsic who had his helmet. I was surprised, but not too surprised. Luke said he was about to “beat this guy up” when the guy claimed he had bought the helmet from Brian Price at Thornbird arms. It seems this guy had been waiting many many months for delivery of a helmet that “was just about finished” and was being given the A to Z of excuses by Brian on why his helmet had not been delivered. Including, “we sent it and UPS must have lost it”. The guy also told Luke that this was not the exact helmet he wanted, but settled for it because it was better than nothing. Because the guy got his helmet about the time Luke’s disappeared, Luke figured that Brian took his helmet, cleaned it up and sent it to this guy to get this customer off his back.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

...wow, just...wow.

[Maeryk]

And this is the thing.. I trust Chris. I trust many of the other people who have posted in this thread. I trust fettered cock, etc.

When the preponderance of evidence lines up, there's no other way to look at it.. that this many high profile names, that NOBODY HAS EVER STEPPED UP TO DEFAME will state line and verse of the injustice, one pretty much has to accept it at face value.

[Greg Mele]

Chris,

Your last post is really creepy, for two reasons:

1. I had a helmet made by Peter Fuller that was lost in the stolen trailer incident; now I will always wonder if that is really what happened.

2. I never met Luke, but heard this same exact story, only Brian told it to me and accused LUKE!!!!

Sigh.

Greg

[Black Swan Designs]

I was referring to Gavin, I just didn't want to drag his name into this too.

He told me the whole story at a party at your house, while looking at the armour in question.

I heard a very similar story about pieces which had never been sent being reported as 'lost in the mail' from GW, who also worked at Thornbird Arms at the same time Luke was working there. I've seen the same 'lost in the mail' story come up in relation to Thornbird/Chivalry Bookshelf/etc. at least a dozen times in the years I have been reading this forum.

Although I have dodged a bullet in regard to being burned by Brian, I feel like I have been party to a very dirty secret for a lot of years. I can't even express how glad I am that it is finally out in the open.

Gwen

[Maeryk]

Chris,

Your last post is really creepy, for two reasons:

1. I had a helmet made by Peter Fuller that was lost in the stolen trailer incident; now I will always wonder if that is really what happened.

2. I never met Luke, but heard this same exact story, only Brian told it to me and accused LUKE!!!!

Sigh.

Greg

Sidetrack: But every year stuff gets stolen. And every year "fringies" are accused. I wonder how many people have discovered that our trusting nature and family attitude give them free reign to be skullduggerous arse pirates.

[Chris Gilman]

I was referring to Gavin, I just didn't want to drag his name into this too.

He told me the whole story at a party at your house, while looking at the armour in question.

I heard a very similar story about pieces which had never been sent being reported as 'lost in the mail' from GW, who also worked at Thornbird Arms at the same time Luke was working there. I've seen the same 'lost in the mail' story come up in relation to Thornbird/Chivalry Bookshelf/etc. at least a dozen times in the years I have been reading this forum.

Although I have dodged a bullet in regard to being burned by Brian, I feel like I have been party to a very dirty secret for a lot of years. I can't even express how glad I am that it is finally out in the open.

Gwen

Oh, right, I get it, I read "uncredited" as meaning the armourer who I didn't name in my post from 2003, not as Uncredited - "the person who did not get credit for making the legs." Sorry about that.
Gavin is working for me currently. I mentioned this tread and he just grimaced.

[Black Swan Designs]

I expect there are a lot of people grimacing right now, for a lot of different reasons. This is a pretty ugly story, and I have a feeling it's not going to get any better looking with time.

Gwen

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, "John Smith",

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Every man has an inalienable right to life, liberty, a Jaguar, an Escalade, Mcmansion, collection of rare books and artifacts, and to use other people's works without compensation or credit.

Indeed, I suppose the Chivalry Bookshelf authors should also be ashamed of expecting to have received timely payment of their royalties given the terrible financial deprivations the Prices have undergone since late 2006, given, as Mr. Price explained above,

We paid royalties until late 2006, when the cash-flow for CB came sharply down...

And...

...one has to be in a position to have sufficient cash-flow to pay said debts, and as I will outline below, I have fought for the last four years to re-achieve such a position.

And...

As may be clear from the above, the structural problems with the CB business were evident in 2005 but were starkly clear in 2006. We had already moved our house from CA to TX in 2004 in order to reduce expenses, and there was no further we could cut once we found ourselves beset by business opponents and my error in doing In Service of the Duke

And...

...We did not find ourselves with financial options aplently, so we fed the Revival business and tried to eke out enough to pay the bills, but made little progress, even with new products. Every step forward seem to yield exactly one step backwards...

And...

...The Bookshelf went onto the back-burner, further reducing revenue possibilities (although I'd already concluded that it wasn't going anywhere and was in a rapid decline anyway). The plan was--and is--to add enough income that we can pay off the outstanding royalties, which we will be able to do in March and April, happily. We thought we had this licked last year, but things fell through...

And...

Our only income stream was until recently Revival, and it has survived, but not with any significant growth. It chews almost all of the capital brought in, leaving us with very little flexibility, chiefly because of servicing the business debt built up by the Bookshelf....

*dabs at tears*

How could anyone reasonably fail to understand that "there was no further [Mr. Price] could cut [expenses]" as he "tried to eke out enough to pay the bills"! Indeed, how could anyone have expected him to apply the $700 to royalties that he'd made in political contributions in the last third of 2006 while "the cash-flow for CB came sharply down"???

(see screenshots of Federal Election Commission filings attached below as FEC 28990022624 and FEC 28930017757)

How could anyone reasonably fail to understand that while paying past due royalties is optional, passing up on the purchase of miniatures of "Frodo & Sam in orc armour" and "Radagast" could never be, much less virtually an entire several-hundred-dollar collection of Lord of the Rings Miniatures???

Who could have reasonably have expected Mr. Price to have responded to such an offer other than, "If these are not sold, I'll take all of the above. I can pay you via Paypal or whatever works best for you"???

Or to have responded other than, "What would you like for the lot?" when faced with an opportunity to purchase a collection of Ral Partha minis (which he got -- oh frabjous day! -- except for the three missile crawlers!!)

And who could have reasonably expected Mr. Price not to purchase breeding pairs of the finest angelfish he'd ever seen, connoisseur that he evidently is, especially when he has such as impressive assemblage of fish tanks:

90 gallon mostly amazon community
5 platinum angels, 1 koi angel, 1 L01 sailfin pleco,
1 breeding pair bristlenose, 4 silver dollars, 3 platy refugees,
various pleco fry
20 gallon angel breeder + 2 bristlenose plecos
20 gallon w/four Nicaraguan red point cichlids
20 gallon L46 zebra pleco
20 gallon L46 holding

Lovely album too: http://www.dfwfishbox.com/forums/produc ... lbumid=677

Who could reasonably expect Mr. Price to have paid past due royalties to his authors while "eking out" enough to pay such bills??



Lady Charlotte

[Trevor]

More seriously, I withhold judgement, until such time as it may fall to me to do so as a matter of survival.

I'm not sure I get your gist here; do you mean to say that you withhold judgment until such time that it would fall to you to withhold payment from suppliers of intellectual property *for years* as a matter of your survival?

Clearly, these are matters of survival and should be taken to appropriate venues - that is our social contract (however flawed by barrier costs). Are you suggesting that I should condemn a man's reputation based solely on the contents of this thread?

I think I see where you're coming from now.

That said, what is reputation other than what others say about you?

Certainly we have heard from over a dozen people who are not unknown to the Society, indeed, most have quite a bit of reputation of their own.

In a court of law, these would be known as "witnesses".

Make of it what you will.

These matters belong in front of a judge or a court of chivalry in matters sca.

They've been taken to *two* kingdoms without redress: Caid and the West. Let's see what Ansteorra does with it-JP is on this board.

Hopefully, there will be some sort of judicial proceedings, as well. There is ample evidence that can be obtained to determine if intellectual property has been stolen, and if contractual obligations have been met. Brian already has admitted that he is at least 4 years in arrears with royalty payments.

I count myself fortunate that we don't live in such a tar and feathers world. Or do we?

Rather seems that it's a "Let's look the other way for 20 years because we like the guy" kind of world, to me.

If a man has done wrong then let him pay for those wrongs.

Regards

Avery

I agree. Let the chips fall where they may. Reputation has been the first chip to fall, it seems.

[Galleron]

I don't spend a great deal of time on this forum, but when I am here I find it to be a treasure trove of information. I certainly appreciate the work everyone running this forum and contributing to it put forth.

I was directed to this thread from another forum, and I'm quite surprised by what I found. Like Mr. Willis, Admittedly, it's not on the same scope as some of the other dealings mentioned here, so I feel no need to become deeply involved in the conversation of business ethics centered around Brian.

What I will comment on is the overall taste this thread leaves in my mouth. From an outsider looking in, there does seem to be something of an "angry mob" mentality going on here. I have noticed that the fire is largely being fed by the same people over and over again, but that's beside the point. In my opinion, and maybe mine alone (which is fine), this is not the place to air dirty laundry. If you have a problem with Mr. Price (especially one of this scope), seek redress elsewhere.

Mr. Tobler: Regardless of your noble intentions for speaking up on internet forums, it simply does not seem particularly "chivalric" (since that seems to be the word of the day). I've always held you in some esteem Mr. Tobler, and what goes on between Mr. Price and yourself doesn't interest me a great deal, but this whole public posting business seems like it should be beneath you.

To put things plainly, I don't much care what has gone on, or is going on. It will all come out in the wash, just as these things always do. I can say that as a casual visitor to these forums I am aghast at the hateful manner with which these posts are being written. I may be completely ignorant to the details of what has gone on between Mr. Price and many of the people posting on this thread, but I will say this one last time: There is a place for issues like this to be decided, and a public forum is not one of them.

Based on what I've read so far, I wouldn't be particularly surprised with many of the responses which people might toss my way after this post. I'll happily continue to drop by this forum for useful and enjoyable information from time to time. Unfortunately, a great deal of "negative renown" is now attached to many people I had previously held in high regard simply for the manner/s in which they've purported themselves here. Say what you like, I highly doubt I'll be checking this thread again.

No, "Dave Smith" you don't spend a lot of time on this forum, since according to your profile this seems to be your first and last post ever.

I note that your profile is remarkably thin. It's the kind of profile I would leave behind if I was a sock puppet that wanted to be untraceable. And if I was the kind of person that thought that I could create a sock puppet to speak for me without anyone noticing the lack of independent evidence for my existance.

[John Smith]

Hello, "John Smith",

Hello. I unravel with a pull of a string.

PM sent

[Leo Medii]

Hello, "John Smith",

Hello. I unravel with a pull of a string.

PM sent

OooooooOOOooOOOooOOooOOo! It's like a game...like Clue!

[David Teague]

Remind me never to piss off a research librarian...

I'm in awe.

Cheers,

David

[John Smith]

I note that your profile is remarkably thin. It's the kind of profile I would leave behind if I was a sock puppet that wanted to be untraceable. And if I was the kind of sociopath that thought that I could create a sock puppet to speak for me without anyone noticing the lack of independent evidence for my existance.

Yeah, what kind of sicko creates sock puppets?

See ya this weekend at the meeting, Wil? I'll make extra bacon.

[Jeff J]

Indeed, I suppose the Chivalry Bookshelf authors should also be ashamed of expecting to have received timely payment of their royalties given the terrible financial deprivations the Prices have undergone since late 2006, given,

You forgot to mention the Holland America cruise in 2009.

[Christian H. Tobler]

Dear all,

While I fully understand the desire to revel in knocking this miscreant down an increasing number of pegs...

Let me suggest: let's stick to the facts, our direct, personal experiences, and/or what we feel we can prove - because, at the end of the day, this is about safeguarding others from this kind of disgusting behavior. To that end, the less hyperbole and less off-topic jibes on this thread, the better the case will be made.

It is important that justice be done - in the court of Chivalry, the court of justice, and the court of public opinion - for us all to emerge the better for this tragic story.

In service, I remain,

Yours,

Christian

[Talbot]

I just sent Brian the following email. I will let you know how he responds.

Brian,
In the “Sword in Two Hands” thread on the Armour Archive, you stated, "Regarding your armour bits, yes, I do acknowledge the debt for these." and later suggested, "With Talbot, Vitus, or any other individual who feels personally wronged, I warmly invite you to contact me directly and we'll work out a solution." I am taking you up on this.

As far as I am concerned the other matters are in the past. I have stated my feelings about them and you have responded. In that matter I am done. However, there is the matter of the outstanding armour pieces. If you wish to make good on this I would welcome it. I fully understand that while completing your doctorate you do not have time to get into the shop to make these items for me. I certainly would not have had time while completing mine. I would be glad to accept other items you have in stock in compensation so we can put this matter to rest. We would have to determine a mutually agreeable fair market value for the items owed.

One reasonable thing you could do would be to provide me with copies of books by Christian Tobler, Dr. Forgeng, Guy Windsor or other authors who are owed royalties. I could then pass them on to these authors thereby allowing them to sell them personally and receive some measure of compensation for their work. This would not in any way relieve you of debts owed to them but it would make me feel as if I am helping out in some small way. I am open to other offers if you prefer. I await your reply.

Dr. Douglas W. Strong
1 Wooded Lane
Hawthorn Woods, IL 60047
doug-strong@comcast.net

Hi Talbot, can you keep us informed how this turns out? I'd like to know if I have a chance of seeing my deposit or some gauntlets at some point.
Thanks!

Well, he responded about 4 hours after I wrote him on February 23rd. He proposed a figure of $1500 as what he owed me and apologized for any hurt he may have caused me while rationalizing what happened between us. He then went on to explain why others were wrong to expect compensation from him and represented himself as the wronged party.

I replied to him the next day (Feb 24th.) Here was my response.

Brian,

I honestly know very little of the bad blood between you, Greg, Nicole and Christian. I had previously heard bits and pieces but I was not interested and had little desire to know. Since they knew that you and I were friends they did not regale me with stories of the split and I was content with that.

My primary difficulty with you stems from the end of our business arrangements. You were unreliable and IMPOSSIBLE to contact. You ignored dozens of phone calls and emails. I know it is hard when you feel your back is up against a wall and the easiest path is to ignore it. This never works. It just alienates people. It changed my opinion of you from someone who was overwhelmed and doing the best he could to someone who was knowingly being dishonest. I was hurt and offended that you could do this to someone with whom you professed to be friends. Whatever trust I had for you was gone. Nevertheless, I have remained quiet about this and have never spoken or written about it publicly. When I read the thread I discovered that this has constituted a pattern of behavior with many other people. I was shocked and was moved to publicly come out and share my experiences with others.

You have an opportunity here. No path is set in stone. Find a way to make amends with those you have wronged. I'm sure you believe you have not intentionally wronged others but I challenge you to take a good hard look in the mirror. If this many people are feeling wronged by you then you have done wrong. I work with students who cannot or will not take responsibility for their actions. Until they learn to accept the fact that their actions have hurt others (intentionally or not) they will never be able to move forward. You are in the identical position right now. Until you accept that your behavior has harmed others you will not be able to move on and grow. You are about to embark on a new phase in your life. You will soon be Dr. Price. This can be a wonderful thing. However, storm clouds are gathering and they are heading in your direction. You can still make this right. There are people out there to whom you owe things and who have been wronged. Make it right. Sell some things and pay off the royalties. Consider it an act of penance. Publicly admit what wrong you did and seek to make it right.

Here is the first step.

If you were proposing a monetary payment I would accept the $1500 amount you had proposed. However, I was actually thinking that the figure should be closer to $2000 in merchandise. Either way cash or merchandise is fine with me. I am concerned, based on your track record, that your offer may prove to be empty. Please prove me wrong. Then take that good hard look in the mirror. I await your response.

Doug

It is now March 2nd and a week has passed since the contact. I have not heard anything since. I am guessing I will not see any money or merchandise. Perhaps he will surprise us all.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

I am guessing I will not see any money or merchandise. Perhaps he will surprise us all.

I think it is uninspiring and against the grain of your second email to come back here and propose that he's probably not being honest about his offer. Perhaps you're right, perhaps he won't change... But if you want Brian to turn a new leaf, the first thing you need to do is have a little faith in him. Let's hear it for his prompt reply and offer of negotiation.

-Gerhard

[Stump]

Trust should be earned not given.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Trust should be earned not given.

Who said anything about trust?

[Talbot]

Gerhard,
While I take your point, I disagree.

Given that his first response came mere hours after the initial email and the fact that the dozens of unanswered emails and phone calls is the exact pattern of behavior that prompted the disolution of our business relationship (as stated in my letter to Brian above) I beleive that a week is sufficient time to begin to despair of ever getting a response. Perhaps I am wrong but I feel I have been here before. I hope I am wrong.

Should he reply I will gladly notify this board.

[Rey]

Welp,

Time to go put my Wife's Silver Pelican Medallion we got From Brian Price in a Safety Deposit Box, That Baby is going to be a Collectors Item one day.

Not everyone has a Pelican Medallion Designed By........Satan. (Then again Maybe they all are)

Never had any issues with Brian myself he was always friendly enough when we were purchasing items from him. But Hey, what salesmen aren't.

Rey

[Gerhard von Liebau]

I beleive that a week is sufficient time to begin to despair of ever getting a response.

Sorry Talbot, I missed the February 24th date on the last email. In that case, I agree to disagree with me, too.

[Talbot]

I beleive that a week is sufficient time to begin to despair of ever getting a response.

Sorry Talbot, I missed the February 24th date on the last email. In that case, I agree to disagree with me, too.

I went back and edited my earlier post to make the timeline more clear.

[Stump]

Trust should be earned not given.

Who said anything about trust?

Would you have faith in a man that has lost your trust? Faith is after all the held belief of the trustworthiness of a person.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Would you have faith in a man that has lost your trust? Faith is after all the held belief of the trustworthiness of a person.

I suppose. When I say "have faith" in such an uncontrollable circumstance it seems far less consequential than "trust." If I wanted Talbot to trust Brian, I might as well have told him to place a new order with him...

-Gerhard

[Baron Alcyoneus]

I'd call that "Blind Faith".