"The Sword in Two Hands by Brian Price" review wan

Charlotte J · Post by **Charlotte J** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:07 pm

Is there also a problem with the shoes or other goods? Or just books?

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:32 pm

They did mention that he'd (stolen) the masters to some jewelry like items, or made unauthorized copies, there are a few pages to go through.

But the question in my mind is, can I trust him in the other articles when I know he's been dishonest with so many things?

Phelippe du Peiregore · Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:39 pm

Baron Alcyoneus wrote:They did mention that he'd (stolen) the masters to some jewelry like items, or made unauthorized copies, there are a few pages to go through.

But until the people the original masters speak up and bring up proofs/contracts, it's nothing really "clear".

So, to Charlotte, there's hearsay of such, but nothing clear, at the moment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I might have missed something.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:41 pm

Aerimus is right...we need to get busted more often and called out when we screw up.

The RIGHTEOUS HEART will not hold chastisement against someone without rank if the offender WAS ACTING LIKE A DICK.

This is THE BIGGEST TEST of the chivalric heart.

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:41 pm

Phelippe du Peiregore wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, I might have missed something.

Fettered Cock spoke up somewhere up-thread, but I'm not sure about the Westland Crafts folks -- they might have spoken up before in Classifieds when they got started, but I can't recall.

Symon VanMoordrecht · Post by **Symon VanMoordrecht** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:20 pm

Chris Gilman wrote:With all this criticism of the SCA knights not taking action sooner and not “controlling their own”.
And as the knight who stood up 20 years ago in the belted circle that was considering Brian for Knighthood, and said, "If you consider me a knight, Brian, should be a Knight."
I offer up my belt.

And you have spent the last ten years speaking to everyone and anyone about what a scoundrel he is. You have tried to make him accountable for his actions. Your belt is right where it belongs.

Thorsteinn Raudskeggr · Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:32 pm

WHOOHOO!!!

I just won a used copy of The Swordsmans Companion by Guy Windsor.

Though it is going to ship from Ottawa, Canada so shipping could be pricey.

Still... I got it legit in a way the author requested.

-Ivan

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:44 pm

Good job Ivan.

I was outbid for a used copy of Fighting with the German Longsword.

Thorsteinn Raudskeggr · Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:44 pm

“No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that’s in the right and keeps on a-comin’”.
-Texas Ranger Captain William Jesse McDonald’s personal motto.

Jonathon More · Post by **Jonathon More** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:55 pm

Charlotte J wrote:Is there also a problem with the shoes or other goods? Or just books?

At this point in the game, why take a chance?

Stump · Post by **Stump** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:23 pm

The true essence of knighthood lies not so much in whether you believe you are a knight. The key is, do others believe you are a knight? If the answer to this question is yes, then I believe you can claim the title of knight. In so doing you also accept the duties towards acting with the right and striving towards the distant chivalric ideal. You thus become a brother to all those knights who have trod the road before and who will come after. Fine company indeed!

SirOlafr · Post by **SirOlafr** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:39 pm

Aaron wrote:
Aerimus13 wrote:And why did you lack the confidence in the KSCA to police one of their own?

My faith in the SCA knight has never been on really sound footing. I wouldn't gauge the SCA knighthood ethics by my view of them.

Some I've met have been wonderful. In fact I am happy to call most of them knights, in the best of terms in regards to knighthood.

But I think they do need to police their own, publish a code of ethics that applies to both in the SCA and out of the SCA and have a much tighter control.

If a knight is kicked out of the Order due to something that he or she did not do, the Order can offer an apology and ask the knight to return. Simple as that. Administrative leave if you will, like police forces and the military do sometimes.

If a knight is kicked out of the Order due to something that he or she did do, they can walk the long walk to redemption and eventually rise again to join the Order and gain the respect of those they lead and serve.

IMO it should not be just prowess. From the website of a knight (and comedian) I admire a lot:

http://chivalrytoday.com/knightly-virtues/

Courage
More than bravado or bluster, todayâ€™s knight in shining armor must have the courage of the heart necessary to undertake tasks which are difficult, tedious or unglamorous, and to graciously accept the sacrifices involved.

Justice
A knight in shining armor holds him- or herself to the highest standard of behavior, and knows that â€œfudgingâ€

Stump · Post by **Stump** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:42 pm

"I believe that this essence of renown is a spark that burns brightly in those knights who share the common bond of seeking a distant ideal, and that this spark can be recognized instantly by others who travel the same road. Some of them are formally known as knights while others are not. It is a comforting thing to know that it does not require an institution to continue the chivalric tradition, but is entrusted to a thing far more durable and pure--the human heart." -Brian R. Price

From "Who is a Knight"

http://www.chronique.com/Library/Knights/Whatknit.htm

SirOlafr · Post by **SirOlafr** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:45 pm

To follow up with Aaron a step further, Whitebelt.com currently lists 1954 knights in the Society. How many do you know in order to have confidence to paint with such a broad brush?

Olafr

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:49 pm

Today, Brian's compensation for the armour owed to me but never delivered arrived. I have several cases of books. There are three titles present.

Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship by Christian Henry Tobler
In Service of the Duke by Christian Henry Tobler
Arte Gladiatoria: 15th century Swordsmanship of Filippo Vadi by Luca Porzio and Gregory Mele.

Brian's debt to me for this armour is settled.

I will now work with the authors to figure out what to do with them. The good news is you will soon be able to purchase them free from guilt. If anyone is looking for copies please PM or email me. Once I have gotten them to the authors we can get you the books.

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:57 pm

Very cool. It's like the trainwreck spread fertilizer, and a giant field of previously thought extinct flowers is sprouting in it's wake.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:00 pm

Maeryk wrote:Very cool. It's like the trainwreck spread fertilizer, and a giant field of previously thought extinct flowers is sprouting in it's wake.

What art thou smoking this afternoon?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:04 pm

SirOlafr wrote:Aaron,

I'm sure you are a swell fellow, but you repeatedly throw barbs at SCA knights on this board, and then repeatedly have to come back with a mea culpa because you wrote something nasty that gets you beat down. Perhaps you should consider this before you start your posts along this line. I don't know who broke your belief in knights, but I really think your barely controlled disdain is significantly misplaced.

Olafr

Sir Olaf,

I do believe I mentioned that the KSCAs are helping me.

It wasn't until a KSCA tried to ban me from fighting that tossed me over the edge. I was enranged like I've never been before in my life...and I never want to be that angry again. But I remember what set me off and work to avoid it.

Some good KSCAs have tossed me a rope to climb back up from the edge I tossed myself off, as I cited in the post you cited.

I should just avoid the mea culpas or the subject entirely and let them sink on their own. Or should I help and toss them a rope to help, as they've helped me?

Aaron wrote:My faith in the SCA knight has never been on really sound footing. I wouldn't gauge the SCA knighthood ethics by my view of them.

Some I've met have been wonderful. In fact I am happy to call most of them knights, in the best of terms in regards to knighthood.

But I think they do need to police their own, publish a code of ethics that applies to both in the SCA and out of the SCA and have a much tighter control.

...

Nothing will replace my shattered faith in the knighthood, but I can pick up the pieces and some good KSCAs have been helping me duct tape it back together. It's not great but it's not in shards either.

To translate: Don't judge the KSCAs from my views, because my views are skewed and I know it. I suggested a ethics rule for KSCAs to assist in helping out the populace view of them (or at least mine). I understand that view might not be for all.

I'll PM you my phone number if you'd like to chat.

Have a great weekend,

-Aaron

azure d'or · Post by **azure d'or** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:07 pm

Black Swan Designs wrote:Greg, Christian et al.

It seems that Chivalry Bookshelf will be at Gulf Wars. Could you please post a list of the titles for which you have not been paid royalties, please? Zubeydah has a good idea which can be expanded on. A succinct list of the affected titles, as well as any other goods which are apparently not CB's to sell can then be disseminated to the various lists. I posted a link to this thread on my FaceBook page, and would do the same with a list of titles.

There will be a lot of us at Gulf Wars, and we won't be afraid to reference this thread when a friend seems inclined to walk in.

I agree with the other Gwen, post a list of titles and products - we will be happy to make sure word gets out.

Gwen, Meridies

Luca Sogliano · Post by **Luca Sogliano** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:11 pm

Who cares if some of Brian's stuff isn't stolen? Boycott it all.

Boycott Brian Price.

Broadway · Post by **Broadway** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:25 pm

In Service of the Duke is friggin aweseme btw. I've got number 238 of 900. Amazing book. Got it right when it came out. Hope you get your cut of it Christian. Its well deserved.

Talbot wrote:Today, Brian's compensation for the armour owed to me but never delivered arrived. I have several cases of books. There are three titles present.

Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship by Christian Henry Tobler
In Service of the Duke by Christian Henry Tobler
Arte Gladiatoria: 15th century Swordsmanship of Filippo Vadi by Luca Porzio and Gregory Mele.

Brian's debt to me for this armour is settled.

I will now work with the authors to figure out what to do with them. The good news is you will soon be able to purchase them free from guilt. If anyone is looking for copies please PM or email me. Once I have gotten them to the authors we can get you the books.

Greg Mele · Post by **Greg Mele** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:26 pm

Morgan and Gwen,

I am sorry, I have been away from a computer most of the day. Gwen asked for a list of books, and my thanks to Galleron for posting them to his blog.

Morgan wrote:
Are these the only books in question of which anyone is aware?

Jousts and Tournaments
Deeds of Arms
Fighting with the German Longsword
Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship
In Service of the Duke
Arte Gladiatoria: 15th century swordsmanship of Filippo Vadi
The Art of Dueling
The Art of Medieval Swordsmanship
The Swordsmanâ€™s Companion
The Duelistâ€™s Companion

Those are the titles related to the authors who have banded together to file a lawsuit. I can tell you from direct correspondence that Mark Rector claims that he was paid $150 for his work on "Highland Swordsmanship" and "Highland Broadsword", and his co-author, Paul Wagner, received nothing. Stephen Hand states that he was never paid for "English Swordsmanship", and that Brian is in arrears for "Medieval Sword and Shield", which was again co-authored with Paul Wagner.

Agilitas.tv is the producer of the two DVDs and asked us (Freelance Academy Press) to become their distributor because they state that they had never been paid by Mr. Price.

This is what I can attest to from direct correspondence with the creators of the above works. I cannot speak to David Lindholm, Luis Preto or Antonio Preto's books, nor Bill Wilson's "Arte of Defense", as I have not spoken to any of these gentlemen about the matter.

So, whether a party to the proceedings or not, there are additional authors who are not being compensated.

Best,

Gregory

Black Swan Designs · Post by **Black Swan Designs** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:09 pm

Thank you Greg. I will post this list and the notes to my personal FB page, as well as my BSD page. Since our colleague Jeffrey Forgeng has been affected, I will also post it to the WorldJoust Tournaments page. We're announcing the competitors for this year's tournament next week, so I will include a note to check out the WJT page. There's another 5K people from all over the world on my WJT mailing list , so that will help spread the word.

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:26 pm

Charlotte J wrote:Is there also a problem with the shoes or other goods? Or just books?

There are current disputes about some of his goods as well.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:29 pm

Luca Sogliano wrote:Who cares if some of Brian's stuff isn't stolen? Boycott it all.

Boycott Brian Price.

I don't think that some who were asking for specific titles were talking about buying SOME stuff from Brian, but instead were worried about buying other items through other venues that weren't as obvious, like how Ivan got the book for which he was looking.

Greg Mele · Post by **Greg Mele** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:32 pm

Dear All,

Christian is on a video shoot today and then teaching a seminar tomorrow, so I wanted to extend a thank you to everyone who has expressed concern, outrage, honest inquiry, or even asked us to provide proof and "put our money where our mouth is" in what began as labors of love and have become a very bitter subject.

To kill any speculation and since it was brought up here already, after hearing that a number of people from here had contacted the Gulf Wars staff, I decided it better that they hear it from the horses mouth, and contacted the autocrat, merchant liaison and the related kingdom seneschals, since I wasn't really sure whom ultimately would have to deal with this. I told them that there was a dispute and I was not really sure if any legal actions we were taking would have an immediate impact on Gulf Wars. I did not demand that they take any particular course of action, just be aware and consult their own counsel on the matter.

Nancy-Ellen Martin aka Duchess Mary-Grace of Gatland responded to me within a few hours, and copied Thomas Hughes, the current president of the SCA, Inc. Mr Hughes also responded quite swiftly and very clearly. Their position is very straightforward: the SCA considers merchanting issues to be a mundane affair and they do not become involved in mundane legal affairs unless they are either plaintiff or defendant.

While many here have and will debate the pros and cons of the corporation's position, that is their position, and folks should quit filling their email bins. They are aware of this thread, have read or are reading it, and feel it is in their best interests to not get involved. And to be fair, their soul purpose is to protect the interests of the SCA, Inc, not seven authors, most of whom are not members of the organization. So, whether one agrees with the perspective or not, please respect that it is their decision to make.

Speaking of judgments, as we are now going to go to court, contact additional authors who wish to join, etc, Christian and I probably won't have much more that we can say or report here other than things like which titles were affected, who is involved, etc, beyond what we have already; at least not until things have moved further along. Since this thread is largely now about what Archive members think about these revelations and want to do from a social perspective (as opposed to the SCA corporate one), perhaps that is for the best anyway.

I can speak for all seven of us to say that we are deeply appreciative that our work has had value for so many people and even more so that many of you who have never read it or necessarily even have interest in the subject have lent your voices and your deeds to demand that we get compensated for our work. It helps affirm our decision to push forward.

Best wishes,

Gregory Mele

Chiara · Post by **Chiara** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:38 pm

Galleron wrote: --snip--
http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.co ... valry.html
--snip--
I've added an update, with the list of books.

Thank you!

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:09 pm

Charlotte J wrote:Is there also a problem with the shoes or other goods? Or just books?

Doesn't matter, love - we're not going to be buying anything from the Price family, or any vendor associated with them. Now and in perpetuity. And we'll recommend the same to our friends.

Regarding the SCA Board: apparently, they haven't read the Charlotte-the-attack-Librarian's post on legal precedence of similar cases. Further sales of stolen or pirated goods post notification seems to be tantamount to complicity in the act. The ostrich position isn't going to protect the SCA legally.

Kith · Post by **Kith** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:55 pm

Just wow! This thread has been a bit surreal.
I guess the best price is no Price at all!

(tshirts forthcoming!)

Charlotte J · Post by **Charlotte J** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:59 pm

No, I certainly never plan to darken his shop door again, even for so much as a free bookmark. Rather, if people are compiling a list of known problem items, it would be beneficial to have all goods on there. I would recommend to anybody to not shop there at all, however, when asked for details, it is nice to be able to be precise.

Galleron · Post by **Galleron** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:06 pm

Broadway wrote:In Service of the Duke is friggin aweseme btw. I've got number 238 of 900. Amazing book. Got it right when it came out. Hope you get your cut of it Christian. Its well deserved.

And I have #406. Which is interesting, considering Brian's claims of how few he sold.

Others?

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:08 pm

One thing that is interesting in the Adrian Empire is that they have a dispute resolution process and a code of conduct expected for all members.

There is also a way for several members of the Chivalry to charge a Knight for an ongoing pattern of behavior that is an offense to the Order and the concept of Knighthood. There are some people who've had their belts removed and been put under various censures or banishments.

The accusers must have prima facia evidence and there is a very unpleasant complaint and trial process that one doesn't get into lightly, however it is a way to remove "false Knights" from the Peerage. Not that this happens often, but it can and has.

When it comes down to it, I think in any group from a motorcycle riding group to a golf club, you'll find most people will be loath to get involved in any kind of dispute on their "hobby time".

Galleron · Post by **Galleron** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:20 pm

Charlotte J wrote:No, I certainly never plan to darken his shop door again, even for so much as a free bookmark. Rather, if people are compiling a list of known problem items, it would be beneficial to have all goods on there. I would recommend to anybody to not shop there at all, however, when asked for details, it is nice to be able to be precise.

I might darken his shop door. I might loom just outside, and hand out explanatory pamphlets explaining Important Facts You Should Know About Chivalry Bookshelf, and perform sock puppet street theater featuring Mary Rosh Smith for a limited time only.

I'm not promising, mind you. But I might.

DukeAvery · Post by **DukeAvery** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:22 pm

I strongly urge Brion to get right with the lights of chivalry who have declaimed his actions here. With fraternal love I also suggest he consider matching his brothers in acts of charity that may build bridges when all other methods have failed.

Regards

Avery

Ed Toton · Post by **Ed Toton** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:35 pm

I for one will not be doing any business with CB/revival.us again in the future.

Thanks Greg, for keeping us informed and for your very thoughtful and professional approach to this. Both you and CHT have handled this very rationally, and I'm glad to see that the wheels are in motion to find a just resolution.

I've been quietly cheering you on, while reading this thread.

"The Sword in Two Hands by Brian Price" review wan

All Please Read