The Armour Archive

Guys,

I am thinking about the subject of trust as it pertains to training. Each fighter has to trust their opponent, a student has to trust their trainer, and each fighter has to trust themselves.

Have you ever inadvertantly betrayed the trust of a student or an opponent?

Have you ever given your trust to someone that did not deserve it?

Have you ever not trusted someone enought to train with them? Have you ever had a student that was unable to trust you, no matter what you did or didn't do?

Have you ever not trusted somebody enough to fight them?

The reason this is on my mind is that I have a student that is entering that "Puppy Stage" where they seem to be viewing me as somebody that is somehow unable to betray their trust. This student, when we were discussing her buying their first suit of armor, actually told me "tell me what to buy." I was struck by how much trust that implied. This got me thinking about how much we have to trust one another.

freiman

I must admit when I first started I did not trust anybody. Hence why I'm still not a good fighter nearly 2 and a half years later. I didn't trust my trainers enough to truly learn from them. Trust is important but to be honest I don't think I could ever trust someone enough to let them make my armour decisions. There should be a few limits. But I'm not sure if thats in trust or just in personal choice.

Bjorn Swiftaxe

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Snaebjorn Haakonsson, called Swiftaxe. Son of Haakon Thorvaldsson, called Oaktall. Son of Thorvald Jarlsson, called Greybeard.

Boy I have a long name.

Have you ever inadvertantly betrayed the trust of a student or an opponent?

Not that I am aware of.

Have you ever given your trust to someone that did not deserve it?

Yes.

Have you ever not trusted someone enought to train with them?

Yes.

Have you ever had a student that was unable to trust you, no matter what you did or didn't do?

Not that I am aware of.

Have you ever not trusted somebody enough to fight them?

Yes.

The reason this is on my mind is that I have a student that is entering that "Puppy Stage" where they seem to be viewing me as somebody that is somehow unable to betray their trust. This student, when we were discussing her buying their first suit of armor, actually told me "tell me what to buy." I was struck by how much trust that implied. This got me thinking about how much we have to trust one another.

Very early on in my training of students, I make sure that they are aware that I am not the fount of all fighting knowledge and training. I encourage them to actively seek out other experienced fighters and see what they can learn from them. My fighting style and techniques have been shaped and developed through more than 26 years of SCA combat and the countless opponents that I have fought.

All that being said, I offer my opinion and guidance when asked. I don't offer it as gospel, but merely my opinion (unless it is a safety and standards issue with armour or weapon construction).

-Keith/Austin.

I used to attend a practice where there was this fighter I no longer trust at all, on or off the field. He was significantly better than I and I tried to learn from him as a trainer.

He asked to use borrow some of my gear and all 3 occasions, resulted, or nearly resulted in the loss of the loaned item.

First time, He asked to borrow my sword as his had just broken. I did, and he returned it to me in pieces. It may have been simply equipment failure, so I didnt hold this against him at first.

Second time, I left the field, and he asked to use my sword. He left it on the field, but made sure his own items were taken care of.

Third, Someone was showing a new person how it doesn't get hurt to be hit in armor, and asked this guy to hit him as hard as he could. He looked at his own sword, set it down and without asking, picked up mine, and hit the demonstrator's helm so hard, I saw the rattan wrap around his head. It didnt break, but he didnt want to risk HIS gear.

If I hit him, he "punished" me to make sure I knew he was still the better fighter so, I was cup shot, or shinned or butt-wrapped. He would tell me that he was only going to throw one type of shot this fight to make it a challenge for him. After several hits I would learn and he could not do it anymore, so I was cup shot, or shinned or butt-wrapped.

He told my wife that her garb was only worn by whores in period. (No one knows where he got this as it was a very common dress for SCA events, and very little flesh was showing)Later he would corner her and go to great lengths on how he and his wife had an understanding and he could see other women. I was not there for this.

The list goes on much longer.

I will no longer fight him, under any circumstance even though I now can hold my own with him. I have no trust or respect what so ever for him. He will not touch anything that belongs to me.
While this may seem off topic , to bring it back, because of him, I am slow to trust any new trainers I meet. I armor my shins every time I fight.
Just because they are better than you does not always mean that they are worth learning from. I am slowly over coming this mentality as I have met a very nice group of fighters recently, but it lingers in the back of my mind. One bad apple....

Hedinn

*He told my wife that her garb was only worn by whores in period. (No one knows where he got this as it was a very common dress for SCA events, and very little flesh was showing)Later he would corner her and go to great lengths on how he and his wife had an understanding and he could see other women.*


Dude what the hell? Where do you guy's practice at.

<B>
Have you ever inadvertantly betrayed the trust of a student or an opponent?</b>
Well I am pretty sure my opponents trust me to not do permenant harm to them. (Be they friends or not) And I do must best to keep that trust.
My students trust me to know what I am doing or saying. And I try my best to.

Have you ever given your trust to someone that did not deserve it?
Oh hell yeah. And I am sure that some of them, think I am the betrayer. Mostly in a non martial art environment.

Have you ever not trusted someone enought to train with them?
Not anyone I would really want to train with anyways.

Have you ever had a student that was unable to trust you, no matter what you did or didn't do?
Don't think so, they would probably not be a student for very long.

Have you ever not trusted somebody enough to fight them?
Oooh that is a tough one. When it comes to steel, there are few that I know personally that would be safe enough to spar with, but that is only based on their skill and judgement not normally on personality.
If it is in more of an SCA sport type situation, well...I'll fight them but it may not be pretty.

Your student is probably looking at you as the best guidance for her, because of your experience and that she may feel that you have a better gauge of her strengths and weaknesses than she does.
The very fact that you even recognized let alone ponder the impact of her trust in you, makes you a pretty good role model for her.
The reason this is on my mind is that I have a student that is entering that "Puppy Stage" where they seem to be viewing me as somebody that is somehow unable to betray their trust. This student, when we were discussing her buying their first suit of armor, actually told me "tell me what to buy." I was struck by how much trust that implied. This got me thinking about how much we have to trust one another.

freiman</B>[/QUOTE]



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"As long as there are fanatics there will always be heretics"
http://www.caerdubh.com

Actualy, let me clear something up and say that I have moved and do not live there anymore. I am now in NY and there are many nice people here.
I do not want anyone to think I was refering to anyone where I now live.
As to the last place I lived, most people there were nice as well, so I dont want a stigma attached to them as a whole.
Still, like I said, it only takes one person to make a bad experience. Trust being the subject, it takes a bit before I give it.

Hedinn


Dude what the hell? Where do you guy's practice at.[/B][/QUOTE]

I dunno man if I had a wife and some dude treated her like that at a fighter practice he'd get destroyed. Glad you were able to get out of that situation.

Hedinn-where are you located now in NY? I happen to live in the state of to damn cold as well. Send me a line sometime. I know you and your lady would be more than welcome up here in Coppertree at any time.

Bjorn Swiftaxe

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Snaebjorn Haakonsson, called Swiftaxe. Son of Haakon Thorvaldsson, called Oaktall. Son of Thorvald Jarlsson, called Greybeard.

Boy I have a long name.

comments are interspersed and preceeded by >>>>>LOGAN


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by freiman the minstrel:
<B>Guys,

I am thinking about the subject of trust as it pertains to training. Each fighter has to trust their opponent, a student has to trust their trainer, and each fighter has to trust themselves.

Have you ever inadvertantly betrayed the trust of a student or an opponent?

>>>>>LOGAN
not that i am aware of. of course that is what inadvertantly means.... ;^)

Have you ever given your trust to someone that did not deserve it?

>>>>>LOGAN
unfortunatly yes. glad it happened though.

Have you ever not trusted someone enought to train with them?

>>>>>LOGAN
no


Have you ever had a student that was unable to trust you, no matter what you did or didn't do?

>>>>>LOGAN
no


Have you ever not trusted somebody enough to fight them?

>>>>>LOGAN
no


The reason this is on my mind is that I have a student that is entering that "Puppy Stage" where they seem to be viewing me as somebody that is somehow unable to betray their trust. This student, when we were discussing her buying their first suit of armor, actually told me "tell me what to buy." I was struck by how much trust that implied. This got me thinking about how much we have to trust one another.

freiman</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>