Worst Pennsic XL Moments!

[Sigifrith Hauknefr]

Well, now that the buzz has worn off and (most of) the laundry is done...

On the first day of battle (Valley), Duke Frederick of Holland age 60-mumble was taken to Marshal's Court for "Assaulting an Archer". Duke Frederick, aka "Flieg" was an attendee at the First Event and is a stalwart member of the West Kingdom and the SCA. He harbors no animosity towards his foes - including and especially archers.

What happened (apparently) was that he was shot in the arm, then charged, then was shot in the other arm (the archer claimed "body") then "attempted to tackle the archer to take out her knees in a retributive attempt to injure".

Or really he was killed/pushed by a greatweapon behind him and he fell on her. Now, I have been fallen on by Flieg in battle and he collapses like a sack of potatoes.

Still, the archer got her Marshal's Court, and Fleig - who certainly has fewer battles left in his body then the rest of us - was banned from fighting the next day in the woods. Since we don't DO Marshal's Courts - we apparently didn't get the memo that "hey, it was an accident, sorry" wasn't going to cut it and Flieg was supposed to have witnesses corraborating "his story". Thanks to HG Palymar for pointing out how to handle a MC.

I don't know who the "plaintiff" was, what unit she fought with, where she was from... frankly I don't want to know.

[Konstantin the Red]

Flieg can be snappish and brusque, but he knows better than that. I'd believe him getting pushed violently in melée -- if he weighs over a hundred-eighty I'd be surprised. A big fighter could pinball him around pretty smart.

[zippy]

I cant imagine Fleig ever intentionally assaulting anyone.

[Nissan Maxima]

Total suck: I burst a blood vessel on the outside of my left eye while doing pickups. Made my eye itch something feirce the rest of the war, especially when I got sweat in it, which was all the time.

Combination good bad moment: Good. Caught a peer in a big lie about a friend of mine. Bad. Had to catch a peer in a big lie about a frind of mine. I already thought this guy was a dick, but he still managed to throw agravation my way while I was on vacation.

[Alan Tynneker]

To paraphrase someone, I don't remember who...
"I don't understand thieves and liars."

[olaf haraldson]

Effed up my elbow on Wednesday and ended my fighting for the war.

[mordreth]

Fleig and I have never really hit it off, that being said I refuse to beleive that he would attempt to hurt an archer with a cheap shot body check.

Other hand I wish those whiney little bitches (of either sex) would figure out that they either should or should not participate in a full contact martial art.

[Kilkenny]

Interesting, Sigifrith. Can't imagine Flieg intentionally trying to injure anyone, and certainly not in retribution for something they did to him within the rules of the game on the list/battle field.

OTOH, I definitely did witness someone deliberately tackle another fighter in the course of the third bridge battle, right at the very, very end. And directly in front of a marshal. I sincerely hope that fellow got a timeout for the rest of the war, because it was entirely clear he deserved and needed it.

[Sir Guy]

I would like to find out who the archer was...

Well, now that the buzz has worn off and (most of) the laundry is done...

On the first day of battle (Valley), Duke Frederick of Holland age 60-mumble was taken to Marshal's Court for "Assaulting an Archer". Duke Frederick, aka "Flieg" was an attendee at the First Event and is a stalwart member of the West Kingdom and the SCA. He harbors no animosity towards his foes - including and especially archers.

What happened (apparently) was that he was shot in the arm, then charged, then was shot in the other arm (the archer claimed "body") then "attempted to tackle the archer to take out her knees in a retributive attempt to injure".

Or really he was killed/pushed by a greatweapon behind him and he fell on her. Now, I have been fallen on by Flieg in battle and he collapses like a sack of potatoes.

Still, the archer got her Marshal's Court, and Fleig - who certainly has fewer battles left in his body then the rest of us - was banned from fighting the next day in the woods. Since we don't DO Marshal's Courts - we apparently didn't get the memo that "hey, it was an accident, sorry" wasn't going to cut it and Flieg was supposed to have witnesses corraborating "his story". Thanks to HG Palymar for pointing out how to handle a MC.

I don't know who the "plaintiff" was, what unit she fought with, where she was from... frankly I don't want to know.

[Leo Medii]

Since we don't DO Marshal's Courts - we apparently didn't get the memo that "hey, it was an accident, sorry" wasn't going to cut it and Flieg was supposed to have witnesses corraborating "his story". Thanks to HG Palymar for pointing out how to handle a MC.

They (witnesses) wouldn't have helped. That archer should never be allowed to return to a full contact martial list. Read my sig line. That is all.

[BdeB]

Total suck: I burst a blood vessel on the outside of my left eye while doing pickups. Made my eye itch something feirce the rest of the war, especially when I got sweat in it, which was all the time.

Combination good bad moment: Good. Caught a peer in a big lie about a friend of mine. Bad. Had to catch a peer in a big lie about a frind of mine. I already thought this guy was a dick, but he still managed to throw agravation my way while I was on vacation.

Sadly my friend you have now belied one of your best catch phrases. You can't say that you can ignore the cookies and it takes away there abilty to f&*( with your good times. Douches and douches and they are everywhere.

I have a stupid story I might share about an act of douchebaggery. I have to think about if it is worth it or not.

[Leo Medii]

All I can think of in this is that when a man of honours words mean nothing, we no longer can make use of the honour system for our society. What I have read here, even though hearsay, makes me so sad for what we in the SCA hold do dear I find my belief in the game shaken to the core once more. I am still shaking my head when reading this.

[BdeB]

Really? You need to get out more.

[Leo Medii]

Really? You need to get out more.

I've had people do far worse to me than "fall and tackle" me in a melee. A simple, man, I'm sorry was all it took for the matter to be closed. The fact that it was the very offering to said archer and it was declined and made a spectacle of punishment for someone makes me cry.

If, by the above good Sir, you mean there are more examples like this, and i need to get out more to see them, no, I do not. I am still trying to re-adjust my SCA glasses for the last year so that I can see things from a less cynical and saddened lens. Stories like the unfortunate one above do nothing to help this for me.

[Riese Von Landsee]

I see nothing wrong with the outcome.

When I was in football, if I speared somebody with my helmet...I got punished by the referees, whether it was intentional or not. Sometimes an "oops, I'm sorry" does not out weight the injury that could of occurred, whether it's a full contact sport or not.

[Leo Medii]

Long ago, when I was a young and crazy uninsured unbelted champion, I was rushed and run over by a couple eastern guys, and in this, one was shoved and fell onto my ankles breaking a bone in my foot. Note that in this, I was facing away from them which could be seen as "bad".

I was out of fighting for the whole war. The champions battle was the very first day.

I never even considered complaining. Never considered a marshals court. Even when I saw the video and saw the two guys had run through a line, and then into my line facing the other way I never thought about it. It's a rough sport. Combat is dangerous, even fake combat and play combat. Your football anology is incorrect. We have no rule about people falling on each other. This all comes down to the fact that one person said they were sorry for the incident, and that it was an accident, and no harm was meant, and the archer person called them a liar.
In the end, it is a sad, sad testament to the body of warriors that use a system of honour to decide contests. A blow to the ideal that all who take up arms are people of honour.

[Cedric Adolphus]

The archer should have their card pulled. This is a fighting sport, shit happens. Get over it.

On a side note:

The worst thing for me was watching Capt Savaric de Pardieu tear his groin in the unbelted champions battle. His vacancy in our household unit was very much felt the rest of war.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

What we do involves risk. The risk is rarely high, it usually involves bruises, but more serious things happen(like broken bones), and very rarely serious, life-threatening injuries occur.

We accept a certain amount of risk because we like this game so much. We do NOT accept an unlimited amount of risk.

We have rules that everyone is supposed to follow. There are people that are stupid, or don't give a crap about their toys and so increase the risk to unacceptable levels. This might include people that think that winning a particular a particular fight or melee was so important that they'd risk breaking/damaging important things in your legs by clipping you, etc. Maybe those particular two were really, really stupid and didn't think that might actually hurt you. Or, maybe they were willing to "Sweep the leg, Johnny."

I recall hearing about an Ansteorran knight that had her collar bone broken at GW years ago. The KSCA spearman that broke her had taped over the rattan he was using for a spear but had no padding on it at all. I wonder if it was inspected, and if the marshal had told him that it was a little stiff. Probably not. I was told that karma visited him in the woods in the form of a rather good beating.

I also recall hearing about a combat arrow at GW being found in a following year that had a target point on it under the padding. Perhaps after that was found they decided that all CA bits had to be marked with the names of their owners. (I'm not picking on GW, these are just a couple incidents that I can recall specifics on.)

I also recall hearing about rattan that had been hollowed out so that rebar could be inserted.


None of these three examples were legal under our rules. They greatly increase the risk, well beyond the acceptable levels.

[Ranif]

Lemme see.
A heavy fighter, a duke, states "A" occurred, an archer, a female, states "B" occurred. The Marshal's Court decided in favour of the "B" statement.
SCA war is a full-contact martial activity, with to be expected "full-contact" hard play. Suck it up, archer!
BUT, there are Rules of Engagement. Written rules.
Go outside these & expect to get your arse hauled over the coals.
Banned a days play = a wrist slap. Suck it up, fighter! Not the same as having your auth card pulled.
Ranif

[LR of E]

My worst Pennsic moment? I missed Fizzball. Never again. And I can't go into details on this public forum as to why that makes me sad.



Morgan

[Ewen MacSuibhne]

My worst moment was when I found myself involved in an impromtu game of anvil soccer whilst walking through camp in the dark trying to locate my beer mug. I clipped the anvil with one toe, and did quite a number on it. Made unit movements for the rest of the war interesting after that .

From what I heard the archer had their knee injured from the tumble, and to smooth things over the Duke got a slap on the wrist, probably to placate the archer. But this is third-hand gossip knowledge, FWIW.

[Baron Eirik]

Effed up my elbow on Wednesday and ended my fighting for the war.

Got my shoulder wrenched that same day during the Battle of Hastings. Same result. A tendon is strained.

[BdeB]

I recall hearing about (SNIP)

I also recall hearing about (SNIP)

I also recall hearing about (SNIP)

Man, i'm not picking on you, really. But everything you say after that is invalidated. If you didn't witness it, you don't know what you are talking about. Folks getting broken, either on purpose or by mistake? Sure, it's a contact sport, it happens.

Hollowed out rattan for rebar?

I've been in the SCA for a little while and I've heard scadians tell all sorts of tales. Usually the ones telling the tales 'heard' it from someone that 'heard' it from someone that one time, at band camp...

In Combat Sports, folks get amp'ed up and do stupid things, sure. There are always ways to sneak illegal of just plain stupid weapons out there, sure.

Overall however our sport is very safe and 99.9% of the participants play by the rules. S#$% Happens!

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Effed up my elbow on Wednesday and ended my fighting for the war.

Got my shoulder wrenched that same day during the Battle of Hastings. Same result. A tendon is strained.

Hey since we are old guys complaining, I got a close encounter with a two handed Saxon axe on my leg during the same battle. It was a good and legitimate hit, but it left me limping for the rest of the war and afterward. I still felt it on Monday during my run... Gotta recover before cranking up the PTs again...

And yes, Sir B is right. When you consider the type of sports related injuries associated with other sports such as Football or its cousin Rugby on a very regular basis, then our statistical number of injuries are very, very low.

[Baron Eirik]

Hey since we are old guys complaining, I got a close encounter with a two handed Saxon axe on my leg during the same battle. It was a good and legitimate hit, but it left me limping for the rest of the war and afterward.

I'm guessing it was Nissan's, since I wound up not hitting much of anything this year.

[MJBlazek]

My worst Pennsic XL moment.... not being at Pennsic XL!!!!!!!

[olaf haraldson]

Funny thing... since it was Hastings... it was worth it.

Effed up my elbow on Wednesday and ended my fighting for the war.

Got my shoulder wrenched that same day during the Battle of Hastings. Same result. A tendon is strained.

Hey since we are old guys complaining, I got a close encounter with a two handed Saxon axe on my leg during the same battle. It was a good and legitimate hit, but it left me limping for the rest of the war and afterward. I still felt it on Monday during my run... Gotta recover before cranking up the PTs again...

And yes, Sir B is right. When you consider the type of sports related injuries associated with other sports such as Football or its cousin Rugby on a very regular basis, then our statistical number of injuries are very, very low.

[Kilkenny]

Lemme see.
A heavy fighter, a duke, states "A" occurred, an archer, a female, states "B" occurred. The Marshal's Court decided in favour of the "B" statement.
SCA war is a full-contact martial activity, with to be expected "full-contact" hard play. Suck it up, archer!
BUT, there are Rules of Engagement. Written rules.
Go outside these & expect to get your arse hauled over the coals.
Banned a days play = a wrist slap. Suck it up, fighter! Not the same as having your auth card pulled.
Ranif

Let's look at that again, shall we?

Party A says one thing, Party B says another. That's pure one person's word against another and so the decision gets to be based upon things like perceptions of individual credibility and the biases of the audience.

Nothing there to say prove that anyone did anything outside the rules of engagement, so let's look again at that part about being hauled over the coals.

Are you, personally, prepared to be hauled over the coals because someone claims that what you did was against the rules of engagement, when in point of fact you know absolutely that you did not violate them whatsoever, in any manner at all?

That's more than likely the nature of the situation reported. An accusation was made and accepted as factually correct while ignoring (largely) the accused's statement that the accusation was untrue.

When someone does something wrong, I am all in favor of them getting their just desserts.
An accusation does not mean something wrong was done...

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Amazing that folks get to spend a week doing stuff we LOVE, and then focus on the WORST things that happened.

Especially the he said / she said stuff.


I too, feel the worst thing about Pennsic XL to me was that I missed it.
.

[Baron Eirik]

It's called venting. Studies show anecdotal evidence that it may be good for the spleen.

[AndreasMorgan]

In response to the original post. Folks need to get their facts straight not speculate. I know the archer personally. I do not believe it was she who called for the marshal court but a field marshal and a knight who witnessed the incident. If it is necessary I can dig up the details on this or have her commander elaborate.

Regards,
Andreas

[Uneg]

My worst Pennsic XL moment(s): Going up to McDonald's after getting the kids put to bed so I could keep up with the classes I'm taking.

Schoolwork and vacation do not mix.

[InsaneIrish]

What happened (apparently) was that he was shot in the arm, then charged, then was shot in the other arm (the archer claimed "body") then "attempted to tackle the archer to take out her knees in a retributive attempt to injure".

Or really he was killed/pushed by a greatweapon behind him and he fell on her. Now, I have been fallen on by Flieg in battle and he collapses like a sack of potatoes.

This will not change the outcome. But:
1. If she were an archer and she shot him, twice, I am assuming she was using shafted arrows? Sooooo, she would have had to be a minimum of 10ft away for the shot to be legal?

2. IF she were 10ft away, how the hell did a NO ARMED man get close enough to her for him to fall on her?

Me thinks Sir Flieg was made an example for the politik of Pennsic.

[Oscad]

The worst thing for me was watching Capt Savaric de Pardieu tear his groin in the unbelted champions battle. His vacancy in our household unit was very much felt the rest of war.

That's too bad, Savaric is a good man; I hope he is doing well now.

Plus, I hate it when injuries happen in the Unbelt battle.

[maxntropy]

Long ago, when I was a young and crazy uninsured unbelted champion, I was rushed and run over by a couple eastern guys, and in this, one was shoved and fell onto my ankles breaking a bone in my foot. Note that in this, I was facing away from them which could be seen as "bad".

I was out of fighting for the whole war. The champions battle was the very first day.

I never even considered complaining. Never considered a marshals court. Even when I saw the video and saw the two guys had run through a line, and then into my line facing the other way I never thought about it. It's a rough sport. Combat is dangerous, even fake combat and play combat.

And I believe shortly thereafter you became pretty good friends with some of them Eastern Unbelts...

Max Von Halstern