Tsubas: Cost vs Quality

[Thomas MacFinn]

As most of you know, I have a brisk business selling carved rattan wasters. I have never been satisfied with the crossguards on the market because most of them are designed to fit a 1.25" round rattan rod, often using a pipe that extends part way up the blade.



I've been trying to design crossguards built specifically for a carved sword. The crossguard should allow the blade to snuggle up against the arms of the crossguard and should have a 'not-round' hole to prevent the crossguard from twisting on the blade.





My first attempt was a simple stainless steel disk, designed to fit down the blade of a carved gladius. I consider it a success.




My second crossguard is a tsuba. My first prototypes were laser cut from mild steel.





The tsuba on the left was relatively inexpensive but weighed 12.2 oz; heavy for a katana. The tsuba on the right has holes burned in it. I can redo both tsubas, using a more expensive but much better technique, out of aluminum for $38 and $110 respectively (for just the tsuba). Add ~$45 for the carved rattan. Should I bother?

Have I surpassed the amount that people will pay?

[Maeryk]

I've seen Katzbalger S guards go for more than that, but they are twisted and BIG.. I'm not sure a Tsuba that _small_ is going to get a lot of interest.. but I could be wrong! Because our blades don't "catch" on a tsuba like they would on a real one, we tend to outsize crap to protect our fingers.

Good luck to you!

[Nissan Maxima]

Where do I send my check for two of the fancy tsubas?

[Thomas MacFinn]

Where do I send my check for two of the fancy tsubas?

Dan Mackison
640 Lynn St
Louisville, KY 40217

Or you can paypal dan.mackison@pobox.com

[Aaron]

I've paid more (I won't give the exact price) for my pollaxes. And the price has been worth it every time.

-Aaron

[Nissan Maxima]

Where do I send my check for two of the fancy tsubas?

Dan Mackison
640 Lynn St
Louisville, KY 40217

Or you can paypal dan.mackison@pobox.com

How much should I add to ship to 60101?

[Thomas MacFinn]

How much should I add to ship to 60101?

$5.20

They will fit in a small flat rate box.

[Thomas MacFinn]

How much should I add to ship to 60101?

$5.20

They will fit in a small flat rate box.

Make that $5.00 even. The post office has a discount for ordering online.

[Nissan Maxima]

Done

[Tomburr]

Nissan,

will you show us how your blades look when you get the chance to mount those?

Thomas,

those are waaaay cool, and there is a serious dearth of good Japanese hardware fittings for SCA. I think the idea of a non-circular opening is far superior. But I think the price alone will prevent these from being a regular seller. I would have a small batch on hand for the occasional dedicated Japanese SCAer and merchant booths at wars, but I'd see about selling them all before investing in any more. You'd get occasional sales, but probably never more than that.

Keep up the good ideas, though. You really could develop some hardware that will make everyone instinctively reach for their wallet when they see it.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Done

Thank you Nissan. Your answer did more to convince me to keep at this than a dozen 'good job' messages.

[Oscad]

Money tends to have that effect...

[Thomas MacFinn]

I've seen Katzbalger S guards go for more than that, but they are twisted and BIG.. I'm not sure a Tsuba that _small_ is going to get a lot of interest.. but I could be wrong! Because our blades don't "catch" on a tsuba like they would on a real one, we tend to outsize crap to protect our fingers.

How about this? It is 4.25" diameter.



BTW, the hole is oriented correctly. The narrow part of the handle fits in your palm or between your thumb and palm.

You can, of course, stair step it if you want a smaller handle.

[Maeryk]

THat's gorgeous.

[Sean Powell]

Now you need to cut a pair with the House Clovenshield symbol in the tsuba and get Nissan to come back for another round.

I've switched almost exclusivly to the Windrose Schivona IIb hilts. They are pricy but hold up well enough (I haven't dented one yet but did break a tang after 5? years) and they look damn sweet. Anything anyone does to make the SCA look better is great in my book. I hope you get lots of buyers.

Sean

[Thomas MacFinn]

Now you need to cut a pair with the House Clovenshield symbol in the tsuba and get Nissan to come back for another round.

I thought about it. If you look at the initial tsuba doodles at the Foxknife page on Flickr, you will see something similar. I even sent Nissan an email back then asking if he had a personal mon (but didn't tell him why I wanted to know).

The biggest hurdle has been converting scale drawings to dxf files for the cutter; a hurdle we recently overcame in a big way. Once I make sure we can make it to production without any more obstacles, we should now be able to cut 4.25" wheels, 3.25" cranes and almost any other design for those willing to pay for them.

Once these are complete, my next task will be developing something mid-level price-wise.

[Thomas MacFinn]

I'd love to see somebody take the stuff I can do and hand carve them further into something like this:

[Broadway]

Try talking to Sir Marc d'Aubigny of Atlantia (Mark Green)

Only contact info that I have is his facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1175390584

[Konstantin the Red]

Very JAL-looking heron there.

[Thomas MacFinn]

It is not an original idea. Japan Airlines and I may have been borrowing from the same source.

[Glaukos the Athenian]

How about a Tsuba in the manner of Miyamoto Musashi ...?

[Thomas MacFinn]

Are you saying "I think this would be a good design to keep costs down (for somebody else to buy)" or "I want one of these" ?

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Are you saying "I think this would be a good design to keep costs down (for somebody else to buy)" or "I want one of these" ?

Both! if it is not expensive. The design is a classic, and if you can find out costs, I can try to do a twofer with a katana waster.
No rush. When you can.

[Vilhelm550]

Any plans for anything larger than 4.25, say 5.25? the leather tsuba on my nodachi-style greatsword may need replacing soon...

[Godric of Castlemont]

Wow that is pretty!

From a business model perspective $110 seems like an awful lot of money for a guard. But seeing as people are rushing you checks maybe you can make it work, far be it for me to question the public demand. I wonder if you could get a machine shop to do a lot production of a few hundred/thousand for a reasonable amount?

[Thomas MacFinn]

Any plans for anything larger than 4.25, say 5.25? the leather tsuba on my nodachi-style greatsword may need replacing soon...

Anything I have done can be scaled up.

[Thomas MacFinn]

I wonder if you could get a machine shop to do a lot production of a few hundred/thousand for a reasonable amount?

I'm certain I can, however do you want thousands of tsubas? I don't.

Last April, I had an idea for mass producing Pompeii gladii and selling them in batches of six for a whopping 25% discount (that offer is still up on foxknife.com). At that time, I ordered 25 stainless steel guards specifically for these swords. I still have 22 of them. Which is not to say business has been bad; the turned handles originally earmarked for gladii are very popular on other things like maces. I'll stick with making the tsubas one or two at a time.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Aluminum Basic Tsuba
3" diameter, 4.4 oz, 1/2" thick: $38.00 (a HUGE improvement weight-wise over the 12.2 oz mild steel)


First prototypes of black plastic tsubas
Basic (left): 3" diameter, 1" thick, 3.6 oz
Wheel (right): 3.25" diameter, 1" thick, 2.3 oz



I'm thinking future versions will be 1/2" thick but the same price (1" thick was what was lying around). Basic $38, Wheel $60. Weight, of course, will be halved.
Until the plastic is time-tested, I will not be offering plastic in larger diameters.

Aluminum Wheel (Chrysanthemum) tsuba
3.25" diameter, 2.7 oz, 1/2" thick: $110.00

[Thomas MacFinn]

How about a Tsuba in the manner of Miyamoto Musashi ...?

I should have a quote for you soon.

[Andrew Sterner]

60 bucks is very doable for any budget. For people of Japanese persuasion, who give a damn about their appearance, 110 is manageable. I'm still a few years from worrying about my Japanese kit.

And yeah, there's no reasonable option other than doing a handful at a time, letting them sell, then make another handful. I hope these bastards sell, I need them to be around for a bit.

[Glaukos the Athenian]

How about a Tsuba in the manner of Miyamoto Musashi ...?

I should have a quote for you soon.

Wow. Even in laser cut steel that should not be heavy. Looking good.

[Thomas MacFinn]

How about a Tsuba in the manner of Miyamoto Musashi ...?

I should have a quote for you soon.

Wow. Even in laser cut steel that should not be heavy. Looking good.

$20 for a "squared off" mild steel version of that design (the original looks rounded).

[Thomas MacFinn]

$10, $20, $38, $60, $110, crane (which am still getting quotes on) ... I think that should cover any budget.

[Vilhelm550]

What would be the thickness of the $20 squared off mild steel Musashi tsuba? Price for a 5.5 inch version?
One could go over it with files and sandpaper, polish it up or paint it and have one spiffy sword!

[Thomas MacFinn]

All of the designs are 1/2" thick. I'm a bit concerned that a 5.5" tsuba would be long enough to make it inside a helmet.

Please remember that I am a woodcarver who just wanted something nice for the swords I sell. I'm going to slow down on the price quotes until I get more orders for the seven alternatives I already have.