Ibelieve that SCA fighting will change after the Battle of the Nations, I am however not sure of how.
It has shown that live steel fighting can be done reasonably safe, it has shown that full body targeting except knees, neck and some other places work, it has shown that there are alternatives to a "good" shot, offensive shield work is used to great effect, as are throws and takedowns. Single fights are timed bouts and scored by refs.
I do not like all of the aspects I see in the BoTN I do not think that we need to change our game but I believe this influx will change the SCAs game, any ideas on how?
Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
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edricus
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Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Fight like a unit
Die like a unit
Win like a unit
Hus Halfdan
Squire to Sir Vitus Polonius (the other Sir Vitus)
Die like a unit
Win like a unit
Hus Halfdan
Squire to Sir Vitus Polonius (the other Sir Vitus)
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
I hope not. I'd rather swordfight than play, "who can trip who first".
dulce periculum
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
No.
it might add a new category years down the line.
maybe a 5th peerage?
it might add a new category years down the line.
maybe a 5th peerage?
Last edited by mrks on Tue May 01, 2012 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sirmrks
mostly retired but still producing as a hobby.
am tired of making Titanium and 301 SS finger gauntlets
but still offer DIY shaped 301SS fingertip kits for $60 shipped.
usually can ship next day.
mostly retired but still producing as a hobby.
am tired of making Titanium and 301 SS finger gauntlets
but still offer DIY shaped 301SS fingertip kits for $60 shipped.
usually can ship next day.
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Sean Powell
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Agreed. I suspect that there will be a schisim in the upper echelon fighters between those who treat the SCA as training for full targeted steel fighting and those who feel the BOTN style of combat lacks elegance and weapon skill. They are both right, it's just a matter of preference.
IMHO what the US team lacked seems to be situational awareness in fractured melees as a result of SCA engagement rules. This was both in getting blindsided and in how to blindside others. I suspect you will find a number of packyard practices throw out engagement rules all together.
Also imho BOTN shows that you can push, trip and even tackle a person to the ground without excessive risk of injury... or at least it is safer to tackle a person to the ground then to force them to submit through repeated head trauma.
There is easily the potential to fight 90 second judged and counted fights. Aaron and I did one to 75 solid blows as counted by the outside marshal. Very tiring but we both had very protective suits and there were breaks for armor repair to help us catch our breath.
I DON'T think the SCA will ever adopt offensive shield use and I highly doubt it will drift away from participants calling their own shots good in single combat. As such knee fighting will remain except in counted-blow fights.
Those are my guesses but I would have made many of those guesses without BotN. BotN will however speed things up from a cross-polination standpoint.
Just my guesses...
Sean
IMHO what the US team lacked seems to be situational awareness in fractured melees as a result of SCA engagement rules. This was both in getting blindsided and in how to blindside others. I suspect you will find a number of packyard practices throw out engagement rules all together.
Also imho BOTN shows that you can push, trip and even tackle a person to the ground without excessive risk of injury... or at least it is safer to tackle a person to the ground then to force them to submit through repeated head trauma.
There is easily the potential to fight 90 second judged and counted fights. Aaron and I did one to 75 solid blows as counted by the outside marshal. Very tiring but we both had very protective suits and there were breaks for armor repair to help us catch our breath.
I DON'T think the SCA will ever adopt offensive shield use and I highly doubt it will drift away from participants calling their own shots good in single combat. As such knee fighting will remain except in counted-blow fights.
Those are my guesses but I would have made many of those guesses without BotN. BotN will however speed things up from a cross-polination standpoint.
Just my guesses...
Sean
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edricus
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Thank you for your thoughts.
I find the subject interesting.
I find the subject interesting.
Fight like a unit
Die like a unit
Win like a unit
Hus Halfdan
Squire to Sir Vitus Polonius (the other Sir Vitus)
Die like a unit
Win like a unit
Hus Halfdan
Squire to Sir Vitus Polonius (the other Sir Vitus)
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Said ibn-Ali
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
My take on it.
No.
The biggest issue is, if the SCA were to adopt a BotN style of combat with real steel and force heavier armour requirements, you would drive off the people who are already barely able to afford to play. You then turn the game into what it was never intended to be, a money game.
As the BotN fights have shown injuries already happen at a larger percentage than in SCA fights of the same size. There were 5v5 and 1 out of 3 fights ended with someone hurt, even if it was a minor injury.
Without having to beat a dying horse the style of combat doesnt do much for me. Its nice to watch the game of push and trip, but its not medieval combat. Its a game of armoured team trip match.
No.
The biggest issue is, if the SCA were to adopt a BotN style of combat with real steel and force heavier armour requirements, you would drive off the people who are already barely able to afford to play. You then turn the game into what it was never intended to be, a money game.
As the BotN fights have shown injuries already happen at a larger percentage than in SCA fights of the same size. There were 5v5 and 1 out of 3 fights ended with someone hurt, even if it was a minor injury.
Without having to beat a dying horse the style of combat doesnt do much for me. Its nice to watch the game of push and trip, but its not medieval combat. Its a game of armoured team trip match.
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Baron Conal
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
I hope not.
( and I wear more armor than most ( not most here.... most SCAdians on the field ))
BoN makes the SCA's hardest fight seem polite and I'm OK with that.
( and I wear more armor than most ( not most here.... most SCAdians on the field ))
BoN makes the SCA's hardest fight seem polite and I'm OK with that.
Baron Conal O'hAirt
Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
“Each is given a bag of tools,
A shapeless mass,
A book of rules;
And each must make-
Ere life has flown-
A stumbling block
Or a stepping stone”
― R L Sharpe
Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
“Each is given a bag of tools,
A shapeless mass,
A book of rules;
And each must make-
Ere life has flown-
A stumbling block
Or a stepping stone”
― R L Sharpe
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Greenshield
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
I don't know about the SCA as a whole, but I can see it changing the Battle of the 30 and The Deed. Could make things quite interesting . . .
G
G
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
BOTN is a completely different sport/hobby than the SCA. They may share some common themes but that is it. SCA becoming more like BOTN is like saying Basketball will become more like Golf because both sports use balls and wear shoes.
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Syrfinn
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Actually, I would think this was closer to the real thing than what we do.
Knock guys over so you can get to the underparts easier and they cant get back at ya.
Just my thoughts if I was in a real medieval fight, forget this standing across from each other thing, if I can get ya to the ground, so my buddy can get under your arm or crotch, or bash your head in against the ground, I wouyld be doing that.
Knock guys over so you can get to the underparts easier and they cant get back at ya.
Just my thoughts if I was in a real medieval fight, forget this standing across from each other thing, if I can get ya to the ground, so my buddy can get under your arm or crotch, or bash your head in against the ground, I wouyld be doing that.
Finn O'Shannon KSCA
AEthelmearc
"In each of us are Two Wolves. One Good, One Evil. Which one do you feed most?"
AEthelmearc
"In each of us are Two Wolves. One Good, One Evil. Which one do you feed most?"
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FrauHirsch1
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
There are a lot of things that are legal in some regions of the SCA that would help the rest prepare for BOTN - Death from Behind (situational awareness), Dead on the Ground (yes, out west knocking people down by attacking shields or weapons with shields or weapons is a purposeful tactic. We do it ALL THE TIME.), looser engagement rules - I can hit anyone engaged with my unit whether they've made eye contact or not. No limits on full running charges. Full helm spear shots are good.
But IMHO, these rules make cowboying less successful and teamwork more important... "any five of us can kill any one of you" is a pretty common saying for many of our units, and many units practice working together to kill one guy very fast - so even the hottest sticks tend not to go off cowboying completely on their own.
I've seen posts from western US SCA members (Caid, West, An Tir, Artemesia, Outlands, Atenveldt) that look at BOTN and say "hmm, that doesn't look all that bad". I think back to Bouse Wars where barbarians were jumping off 8' dirt castle walls on top of us, and people were tackling others from behind, and all the extreme charge pileups I've been in. Is it really that much more insane? (except that I'm broken and old
)
From the Caidan Armored Combat Handbook - for wars:
2. Rules of Engagement
a. A fighter has engaged an opponent in combat if any of the following apply:
i. The fighter and opponent have exchanged blows and have not disengaged.
ii. The fighter approaches the opponent from the front, has been noted by his opponent and is
within weapon's range.
iii. The fighter is part of a unit which is engaged with one or more persons of the opposing side.
In these situations a fighter may not be aware of the dispositions of opposing fighters who may
strike. Striking an opponent who is not aware of their opponent should be done with minimum
force.
iv. The fighter is in pursuit of the opponent and that opponent is not more than 3 strides from the
point where they were last attacked. If an opponent breaks though a line and succeeds in getting more than three strides beyond the line without being struck, they are considered disengaged from that formation for the purpose of actually hitting them from behind and may only be “killed from behind” or re-engaged. Should they immediately turn with the intent of killing the formation from behind, any pursuer is considered to be immediately engaged.
and
4. Striking From Behind
a. If a fighter is engaged with you, you may strike them, although killing from behind is preferred. If
they are not engaged with you, you may kill them from behind, or wait until they engage with you.
5. Killing and Capturing Opponents on the Ground
a. Should a fighter fall to the ground during a war and can be held at weapons point by an opponent, the fighter on the ground can either be considered killed or be asked to surrender.
b. To kill someone on the ground you must have them at weapons point and state LOUDLY “You are
dead on the ground, my lord.” You must at least take enough time that your opponent acknowledges
your presence (or could have) before attacking another opponent (roughly 2-3 seconds).
You cannot shield bash to the body, but you can to the shield. In most kingdoms there are no rules against using your own body against a shield or weapon, just vice versa. I held a William the Marshal tournament where one of the defeat criteria was being pushed outside of the lyst field. We had an inner rope ring 5' inside the barrier in a large field. 3 man teams - 3 point deaths.
It was gloriously violent and chaotic event, and 100% within the SCA ruleset. But note that I did have a couple of people complain because it just wasn't a double-elim and it was 'rough'. You can't please everyone, but there are a lot of leeway to explore 100% within SCA rules.
I've long held that armored rebated steel combat in the SCA should be the purview of the armored combat Marshallate.
But IMHO, these rules make cowboying less successful and teamwork more important... "any five of us can kill any one of you" is a pretty common saying for many of our units, and many units practice working together to kill one guy very fast - so even the hottest sticks tend not to go off cowboying completely on their own.
I've seen posts from western US SCA members (Caid, West, An Tir, Artemesia, Outlands, Atenveldt) that look at BOTN and say "hmm, that doesn't look all that bad". I think back to Bouse Wars where barbarians were jumping off 8' dirt castle walls on top of us, and people were tackling others from behind, and all the extreme charge pileups I've been in. Is it really that much more insane? (except that I'm broken and old
)From the Caidan Armored Combat Handbook - for wars:
2. Rules of Engagement
a. A fighter has engaged an opponent in combat if any of the following apply:
i. The fighter and opponent have exchanged blows and have not disengaged.
ii. The fighter approaches the opponent from the front, has been noted by his opponent and is
within weapon's range.
iii. The fighter is part of a unit which is engaged with one or more persons of the opposing side.
In these situations a fighter may not be aware of the dispositions of opposing fighters who may
strike. Striking an opponent who is not aware of their opponent should be done with minimum
force.
iv. The fighter is in pursuit of the opponent and that opponent is not more than 3 strides from the
point where they were last attacked. If an opponent breaks though a line and succeeds in getting more than three strides beyond the line without being struck, they are considered disengaged from that formation for the purpose of actually hitting them from behind and may only be “killed from behind” or re-engaged. Should they immediately turn with the intent of killing the formation from behind, any pursuer is considered to be immediately engaged.
and
4. Striking From Behind
a. If a fighter is engaged with you, you may strike them, although killing from behind is preferred. If
they are not engaged with you, you may kill them from behind, or wait until they engage with you.
5. Killing and Capturing Opponents on the Ground
a. Should a fighter fall to the ground during a war and can be held at weapons point by an opponent, the fighter on the ground can either be considered killed or be asked to surrender.
b. To kill someone on the ground you must have them at weapons point and state LOUDLY “You are
dead on the ground, my lord.” You must at least take enough time that your opponent acknowledges
your presence (or could have) before attacking another opponent (roughly 2-3 seconds).
You cannot shield bash to the body, but you can to the shield. In most kingdoms there are no rules against using your own body against a shield or weapon, just vice versa. I held a William the Marshal tournament where one of the defeat criteria was being pushed outside of the lyst field. We had an inner rope ring 5' inside the barrier in a large field. 3 man teams - 3 point deaths.
It was gloriously violent and chaotic event, and 100% within the SCA ruleset. But note that I did have a couple of people complain because it just wasn't a double-elim and it was 'rough'. You can't please everyone, but there are a lot of leeway to explore 100% within SCA rules.
I've long held that armored rebated steel combat in the SCA should be the purview of the armored combat Marshallate.
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Baron Eirik
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Botn is the SCA what Grand Am Racing is to your local dirt track.
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William de Faleston
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Well, one thing I don't want to see emulated is the obvious macho win-at-all-costs mentality I've seen in spots. It's not universal, but it's there. I especially disliked seeing one fighter straddling a fallen foe beating him repeatedly in the head with a shield edge while the announcers screamed "stop fighting" in three or four languages.
There are some things I think we could look into adopting. I think what I've been watching shows that 360 degree engagement would not necessarily result in instant death for all involved. I would be open to trying some melees with engagement like that if there was an additional rule that everyone avoid being a dick about it.
Another interesting point I would make is that if a metal halberd or axehead swung at a greater than 90-degree angle does not automatically kill fighters, the same polearm made in leather, rubber or stiff foam is also relatively safe, and probably doesn't need a magical 1/4 of foam to make it so.
Other than that, BOTN can keep their tripping and repeated submission blows to the head. I use my brain to work and I like my ankles unbroken.
There are some things I think we could look into adopting. I think what I've been watching shows that 360 degree engagement would not necessarily result in instant death for all involved. I would be open to trying some melees with engagement like that if there was an additional rule that everyone avoid being a dick about it.
Another interesting point I would make is that if a metal halberd or axehead swung at a greater than 90-degree angle does not automatically kill fighters, the same polearm made in leather, rubber or stiff foam is also relatively safe, and probably doesn't need a magical 1/4 of foam to make it so.
Other than that, BOTN can keep their tripping and repeated submission blows to the head. I use my brain to work and I like my ankles unbroken.
"Despite your use of all caps, I don't believe that you are correct." - Kilkenny
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
The fact that they use steel is a non issue.
The fact that you cannot thrust in BotN is huge and is what turns their melees into big wrasslin matches. this destroy the ability tpo perform many period techniques.
On the other hand the fact that you CAN grapple allows them to perfom many period techniques that you cannot in the SCA.
If I were to have a say I would perhaps choose to see from this an opportunity to introduce a limited form of grappling and perhaps halfswording.
Logistical nightmares aside I would love to see a certain level of grappling allowed in 1v1 tourneys, and perhaps a different level for mid sized melees with little or nothing changing for wars.
The fact that you cannot thrust in BotN is huge and is what turns their melees into big wrasslin matches. this destroy the ability tpo perform many period techniques.
On the other hand the fact that you CAN grapple allows them to perfom many period techniques that you cannot in the SCA.
If I were to have a say I would perhaps choose to see from this an opportunity to introduce a limited form of grappling and perhaps halfswording.
Logistical nightmares aside I would love to see a certain level of grappling allowed in 1v1 tourneys, and perhaps a different level for mid sized melees with little or nothing changing for wars.
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William de Faleston
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
It was nice seeing one of our guys execute a near-perfect hip throw. I think it was against the Danes. That's pretty sweet in heavy armor.LeeC wrote:The fact that they use steel is a non issue.
The fact that you cannot thrust in BotN is huge and is what turns their melees into big wrasslin matches. this destroy the ability tpo perform many period techniques.
On the other hand the fact that you CAN grapple allows them to perfom many period techniques that you cannot in the SCA.
If I were to have a say I would perhaps choose to see from this an opportunity to introduce a limited form of grappling and perhaps halfswording.
Logistical nightmares aside I would love to see a certain level of grappling allowed in 1v1 tourneys, and perhaps a different level for mid sized melees with little or nothing changing for wars.
"Despite your use of all caps, I don't believe that you are correct." - Kilkenny
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Baron Eirik
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
These guys train knowing that they will be grappling & throwing. Think of the last guy you saw get his first auth. Think he could get through any of those melees without getting broken?
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
The rules won't change, but I can see the interests and efforts of people within the SCA who are interested in doing the BOTN next year focus towards arming themselves and practicing under that ruleset.
Sigifrith Hauknefr - SCA fighting is not a recreation of anything...
Baron Joseph Harcourt - House Serpentius. East Kingdom.
Baron Joseph Harcourt - House Serpentius. East Kingdom.
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Sir Wilhelm vonOstenbruke
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Dante della Luna wrote:I hope not. I'd rather swordfight than play, "who can trip who first".
My thoughts exactly. Didn't see much 'fighting' during the melees, just a lot of grappling and tossing to the ground.
"You are nothing without honor."
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
The injury rate at BoN is significantly higher than any SCA event I've been to.
The armor requirement is significantly higher than SCA. If you raise the standard you will lose lots of people.
The battles have convinced me that I do not want shield bashing, and blindsided smashes with pole weapons is devastating. While I enjoy a bit of a tussle with friends once in a while, bending the grappling rules a bit, I don't want to see this being adopted in general.
Obviously BoN will be a separate entity. SCA will probably lose a few to BoN but many will do both. BoN will grow significantly in the next few years.
It's possible that some of BoN style combat may be adopted into a splinter style within the SCA but it will not materially change what is done currently in SCA.
Chris
The armor requirement is significantly higher than SCA. If you raise the standard you will lose lots of people.
The battles have convinced me that I do not want shield bashing, and blindsided smashes with pole weapons is devastating. While I enjoy a bit of a tussle with friends once in a while, bending the grappling rules a bit, I don't want to see this being adopted in general.
Obviously BoN will be a separate entity. SCA will probably lose a few to BoN but many will do both. BoN will grow significantly in the next few years.
It's possible that some of BoN style combat may be adopted into a splinter style within the SCA but it will not materially change what is done currently in SCA.
Chris
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InsaneIrish
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
igelkott wrote:The injury rate at BoN is significantly higher than any SCA event I've been to.
This.
Insane Irish
Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
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Guy Dawkins
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
higher at this one event then ALL the events I've been to.InsaneIrish wrote:igelkott wrote:The injury rate at BoN is significantly higher than any SCA event I've been to.
This.
Guy Dawkins
Barony of Ayreton
Kingdom of the Middle
This whole mad slide into hell started when we let California have it's own pizza.
Honor virtutis praemium
_______________________
mka: David Valenta
Barony of Ayreton
Kingdom of the Middle
This whole mad slide into hell started when we let California have it's own pizza.
Honor virtutis praemium
_______________________
mka: David Valenta
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Dafydd
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
>BotNDante della Luna wrote:I hope not. I'd rather swordfight than play, "who can trip who first".
>SCA Heavy
>swordfighting
Pick one.
Earl Dafydd ap Gwynedd, KSCA
per barry engrailed of nine, vert and argent, a raven's head erased, proper
"In democracy, it's your vote that counts; in feudalism, it's your Count that votes..."
per barry engrailed of nine, vert and argent, a raven's head erased, proper
"In democracy, it's your vote that counts; in feudalism, it's your Count that votes..."
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Douche
Dafydd wrote:>BotNDante della Luna wrote:I hope not. I'd rather swordfight than play, "who can trip who first".
>SCA Heavy
>swordfighting
Pick one.
dulce periculum
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Leo Medii
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
I don't think it will change it much at all. The SCA is too monolithic, and is like the government, change is fought, slow, and unliked. Hell, look at the 4th peerage idea just to see what can happen with a topic that is already allowed in the SCA.
And, it should not be. I've already argued this till I'm both blue in the face, and shouted down by purists of all angles. The funniest was starting to hear SCA folks talking about the BoTN and sounding like John Clements talking about SCA people.
The BoTN is a totally seperate endeavor, and should stay as such. The SCA would be ruined for the majority if it used the rules of the BoTN.
However, perhaps they can allow combat archery at BoTN. That would be totally cool.
And, it should not be. I've already argued this till I'm both blue in the face, and shouted down by purists of all angles. The funniest was starting to hear SCA folks talking about the BoTN and sounding like John Clements talking about SCA people.
The BoTN is a totally seperate endeavor, and should stay as such. The SCA would be ruined for the majority if it used the rules of the BoTN.
However, perhaps they can allow combat archery at BoTN. That would be totally cool.
Lion of Irnham - Martial undertaking should never be a lowest common denominator endeavor.
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
I'd be okay with some C&T authorizations with higher training requirements that allowed grappling, polearms and full armor, though (Right now, we just get full armor).Leo Medii wrote:The BoTN is a totally seperate endeavor, and should stay as such. The SCA would be ruined for the majority if it used the rules of the BoTN.
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FrauHirsch1
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
I don't like shield edge punches to the body, but full out charges with shields have worked fine for years. Sometimes the face or edges of the shields do hit people in the body or head. It hasn't been a big issue. I worry more about the 400lbs of person and armor piling on top of me with my knees out of place than getting whacked by a shield.igelkott wrote: The battles have convinced me that I do not want shield bashing, and blindsided smashes with pole weapons is devastating.
Chris
In a war or melee, it is the most useful tactic to smash someone with your pole weapon who is not actually looking at you as long as you are legally engaged with them. To be honest, most people do not see the person who actually strikes them in a big battle. Heck, we train our fighters to shoot for the guy one or two over at the oblique, not the one staring right at them.
Why would it be more devastating?
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Guys, BotN is the nightmare scenario for the Marshallate. It's what they see in their mind's eye whenever anyone ventures to say 'Hey, what if we tried an small experiment in allowing some grappling?' It's the bloodshed they see when someone says 'You know, metal weapons have a pretty big data set that shows what can and cannot be done safely under certain conditions.' If you pointed to a BotN video and said 'See, we could do something like this' they'd point to the exact same video and say 'See what would happen!'
My opinion is worth slightly less than you paid for it and is only my opinion based only on my experiences. No warranty is expressed or implied.
My opinion is worth slightly less than you paid for it and is only my opinion based only on my experiences. No warranty is expressed or implied.
"Success consists of getting up just one more time than you fall."
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FrauHirsch1
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Note that these rules are regional. Many kingdoms and the SCA rules do not require 1/4" of foam on the blade of a pole weapon, nor limit power or swing to 90 degrees - and some kingdoms have never had these rules, and there haven't been any more injuries.William de Faleston wrote: Another interesting point I would make is that if a metal halberd or axehead swung at a greater than 90-degree angle does not automatically kill fighters, the same polearm made in leather, rubber or stiff foam is also relatively safe, and probably doesn't need a magical 1/4 of foam to make it so.
These are local conventions to protect from a safety hazard that does not exist.
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Blaine de Navarre
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
I would love to see rebated steel replace rattan in the SCA, but I don't think it'll happen. Ditto full-body targeting. I'm one of those weirdos who refuses to use a thrusting tip in the SCA as it is, so if the switch to steel meant forgoing thrusts for safety reasons it wouldn't harsh my mellow.
I'd love to see us switch from our 1-hit with "wounds" to a simple counted blows system; other suggested systems, like submission or BotN style knock-down, not so much.
Grappling is where I see a real issue; the worst injuries I have given, received, or witnessed in any "combat" sport have been in swei jiau/wrestling/ju jitsu, so I think grappling would not be safe for a bunch of weekend warriors.
I'd love to see us switch from our 1-hit with "wounds" to a simple counted blows system; other suggested systems, like submission or BotN style knock-down, not so much.
Grappling is where I see a real issue; the worst injuries I have given, received, or witnessed in any "combat" sport have been in swei jiau/wrestling/ju jitsu, so I think grappling would not be safe for a bunch of weekend warriors.
Blaine de Navarre
in temperantiam temeritas
in vapulationem veritas
in temperantiam temeritas
in vapulationem veritas
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
You know, Blaine...if you go do C&T, you get rebated steel, full body targeting and you can wear armor...Blaine de Navarre wrote:I would love to see rebated steel replace rattan in the SCA, but I don't think it'll happen. Ditto full-body targeting. I'm one of those weirdos who refuses to use a thrusting tip in the SCA as it is, so if the switch to steel meant forgoing thrusts for safety reasons it wouldn't harsh my mellow.
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Jonathon More
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
was that really necessary?Dante della Luna wrote:Douche
Dafydd wrote:>BotNDante della Luna wrote:I hope not. I'd rather swordfight than play, "who can trip who first".
>SCA Heavy
>swordfighting
Pick one.
In any case, the point was pretty much on target.
Johnathon
pax, pax, est non mi pax
adveho ex heaen. abyssus reus
pax, pax, est non mi pax
adveho ex heaen. abyssus reus
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William Frisbee
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Its one of the reasons I stopped doing SCA fighting and went WMA.
The amount of sports armour folks that only use sticks as sticks.
I wanted something more realistic, so I just picked up and have been sticking with the martial art.
Now for BoTN... I'd love to try it. I can't say its closer to the art of combat than my WMA sparring, but I do find it a lot more interesting and satisfying than SCA fighting.
The amount of sports armour folks that only use sticks as sticks.
I wanted something more realistic, so I just picked up and have been sticking with the martial art.
Now for BoTN... I'd love to try it. I can't say its closer to the art of combat than my WMA sparring, but I do find it a lot more interesting and satisfying than SCA fighting.
New Hampshire KdF
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Learn the Way of the Sword, the way the Germans intended it!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NewHampshireKDF
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Dafydd
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
Thanks. And well...I do tend to use the point more than the edge, even in SCA Heavy. Hopefully it's at least occasionally on target.Jonathon More wrote: was that really necessary?
In any case, the point was pretty much on target.
I also stand by my point (geddit?): SCA Heavy is a wonderful thing (still do it, still love it), but it's moved steadily away from swordfighting for a long time now. SCA Light, particularly C&T, for all its limitations and foibles (did it again...) is closer to fighting with swords than is the combat sport SCA Heavy has become. Nothing wrong with combat sports, and it's not like it's useless for learning how swordfighting works...but it ain't swordfighting.
Earl Dafydd ap Gwynedd, KSCA
per barry engrailed of nine, vert and argent, a raven's head erased, proper
"In democracy, it's your vote that counts; in feudalism, it's your Count that votes..."
per barry engrailed of nine, vert and argent, a raven's head erased, proper
"In democracy, it's your vote that counts; in feudalism, it's your Count that votes..."
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PatternWeld
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Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
would it be bad to point out that there is a sizable group that has existed for a while, that fights live steel, allows thrusting and whose combat conventions closely resemble SCA? The only difference I've seen so far is the power of the blows.
The Empire of Adria
SCA folks tend to marginalize it because its a split off group. I've been playing with them for a short period of time now and enjoy it. I also really like the fact that their peerages are earned, with participation, in each facet of the group.
The Empire of Adria
SCA folks tend to marginalize it because its a split off group. I've been playing with them for a short period of time now and enjoy it. I also really like the fact that their peerages are earned, with participation, in each facet of the group.
Jonathan Baird wrote: If the way were meant to be easy it would teach you no lesson.
Rhyance wrote:Seek excellence the way a man with his hair on fire seeks a pond. Rinse and repeat. Every day.
Re: Will the BoTN change the SCA:s HF game?
BoTN might change some things.
Death from behind might become more common, etc...
But, we have some senior leadership (dukes, knights, etc...) who are coming back pretty injured. Their views will dominate any changes IMO, as they should.
Death from behind might become more common, etc...
But, we have some senior leadership (dukes, knights, etc...) who are coming back pretty injured. Their views will dominate any changes IMO, as they should.