The Armour Archive

Question for you fighters:

What meal best helps you recuperate after fighting at an event?

Scenario 1) Assume fighting in the morning, a luncheon meal, and no fighting planned for the rest of the day.

Scenario 2) Assume fighting in the morning, a luncheon meal, followed by fighting in the afternoon.

Are the answers different for each scenario?
What foods help you recover your strength best?
What foods help you refuel for additional combat?

Protein, protein, protein.

Your muscles are starved and it's time to feed 'em right.
Turkey, chicken, fish, eggs, take your pick. Accent with some whole grains & veggies.
Drink tomato juice or V8, or eat a banana to replenish electrolytes.
Eating less salt when you're not exercising will make you retain salt when you do exercise. That is a good thing.

Before I go to fighter practice I usually eat "Chili of Strength". Mostly meat and tomatoes. Cubed beef not hamburger. Tomatoes. A little onion and a few green hot peppers, but not many. Don't want to overdo with the spices. And only a few kidney beans - don't want to become a chemical weapon on the field. A few pieces of buttered bread on the side. Eat until you are not hungry, not until you are full.

I also find that a couple of beers post-fight for whatever reason makes me far less sore the next day. Just maybe two beers does the trick.

I have a potassium deficiency thanks to hyperaldosteronism, so I prepare for a days fighting before it begins. For example, on my way to a days fighting event, I drank a large Monster energy drink, mainly because my kids didn't let me sleep real well (all excited being at Grandma and Grampa's). I ate two good size bananas, and drank orange juice on the way, and a pice of cold steak for protein. During arming up and morning breaks, it's water, Gatorade, and V8. Lunch break was cheese, apple, beef jerky, more fluids. I keep my lunch and snacking light. Hydration, even indoors in cool weather, is vital. I surprised myself and lasted longer than I thought. I've also had good days fighting when drinking fruit smoothie type drinks.
After the day of fighting...well, there's a reason alot of fighters want to go to a steakhouse...I'm of the mind that I need to keep the fuel up, instead of trying to recover fluids and nutrients after....after is for celebrating!

Check out the crossfit site on nutrition. Clean carbs, such as many veggies, and lean meats are best. In addition water.

For Rattan, I generally eat a lesser breakfast. Meal/cereal/protein bar of some sort or small bowl of oatmeal or something that is going to stick with me pretty good.

I will, through the day, eat oranges, pickles, and salt snacks (jerky and pretzels and such) with the water/gatorade as I'm fighting. I find it hard to eat a meal-type sitting and take the field. I have been fond of having fresh fruits and cheese with summer sausage as a light 'meal' between fighting.

After fighting, I usually want steak/chicken/fish/protein of some sort. I'll even settle for a homemade style hamburger (not McDonald's crap) with some bacon on it. I think there is a reason steak restaurants are busy after events .

If your speaking of food immediately after I'm done fighting for the day, not entirely picky. But the hunger doesn't usually hit until I've got the armour off and mostly put away.

So : if offered a lunch (after fighting, not intending to fight again that day) of : a massive sprawl of various types of meat: brisket, pulled pork, brats, grilled chicken.. etc... along with whole wheat pita / rolls / bread options on which to pile meat... would this be a good thing, from a fighter perspective?

Mebbe some frozen banana pops, fresh fruit, maybe veggies smeared with peanut butter?

What time should I be there?

Seriously though, somewhat depends on the people involved. When I've been fighting, I generally don't want much lunch at all so massive sprawl could be overkill.

In the middle of a fighting day: very light.... a granola bar, maybe 1/2 PBJ sandwich. I love events where they have a nice spread of fresh fruit.

Chocolate milk is awesome after fighting.

At the end of the day I eat whatever they make back at camp.

Chris

For me its this.... actually stolen from mediterranian/persian cuisine.

Lean meats, tons of fresh herbs, fruit, greens, veggies, olives, feta or similar cheese, light breads like pitas, rice, lots of water. Minimal seasoning. Gets me protein, vitamins, fats, salts, carbs and water. I feel best with that, plus its all pretty light on the stomach. No empty calories.

Cheers!

After getting hot and tired, I like something light and cool. Cold meat or kippers, cheese, bread, fruits, salads ect. Fairly small amounts, esp. if I would be fighting later in the afternoon. Oh yea, and a beer! A cold beer brings one around and renews strength!

I have eaten many different ways before, during and after fighting including being a fasted state. I personally see no difference, YMMV. What can make a difference for me is drinking water. I often do not drink during fighting as the helm is in the way and I keep forgetting to get a suitable drinking bottle. I don't see a lot of other fighters drinking water so I suspect they are in the same situation. If someone asked what to do after fighting it would 1) drink a couple of glasses of water, 2) stretch, 3) clean and put away your armour and 4) attend to your Knight or liege, roughly in that order as circumstances permit. Eat when you can.

When I go camping to an event I make my own beef jerky and my own trail mix.

The trail mix is a huge hit in my Pennsic camp. It has been dubbed "Vlad's Trail Mix of Awesomeness"

Also, if you have a dehydrator (kind of a prerequisite for the jerky) you can slice bananas in half (long ways) and pop them in there. Eat one immediately after fighting. Banana jerky!

Also, I take children's vitamins. I don't know if it really does any good, but there is usually some drinking at events after the fighting. Its hard for an adult to OD on children's chewable vitamins (particularly since most are water soluble) but it does seem to help the next morning.

Bacon.

For both one and two: A large coffee with a bit of cream and a handful of trail mix.

I don't eat much at all during a fighting event. Hot weather kills my appetite, exercise kills my appetite further.

I won't be hungry till the Monday after.

Protien, carbs, and potasium.

Thats about it. Other than that, good rehydration.

Zubeydah wrote:Question for you fighters:

What meal best helps you recuperate after fighting at an event?

Scenario 1) Assume fighting in the morning, a luncheon meal, and no fighting planned for the rest of the day.

Scenario 2) Assume fighting in the morning, a luncheon meal, followed by fighting in the afternoon.

Are the answers different for each scenario?
What foods help you recover your strength best?
What foods help you refuel for additional combat?

For recovery, bananas immediately after followed by lean protiens (chicken, eggs, turkey, fish), Quinoa, and leafy green veggies (spinach, collard greens, etc.). If you care to, go to your local GNC type store and get Amino Acid pills (basically already broken down protiens). Helps a lot with quick recovery.

For foods to refuel for additional combat . . . baby food . . . it is easily digested and packed with Vitamins & minerals.

Zubeydah wrote:Question for you fighters:

What meal best helps you recuperate after fighting at an event?

Scenario 1) Assume fighting in the morning, a luncheon meal, and no fighting planned for the rest of the day.

Scenario 2) Assume fighting in the morning, a luncheon meal, followed by fighting in the afternoon.

Are the answers different for each scenario?
What foods help you recover your strength best?
What foods help you refuel for additional combat?

Interesting. For me, the answer really is neither. The fuel for the day's fighting went in during the prior 48 hours. Carbo-loading at dinner the two nights prior to the fighting event.

During the day, I'll munch on dill pickles, bit of meat and cheese, maybe an orange. But I'm not looking to recover anything, just give the stomach a little something to do during a break in the fighting.

I do not want to give my system anything substantial to digest if I am going back out to fight more. The diversion of blood flow for digestion is counter-productive to being active.

I'll drink a fair bit, but in small amounts at a time. I'll drink straight pickle juice if it's available, but again, not much at any one time.

The evening meal after a heavy fighting day? Let me go bankrupt an all you can eat buffet

Guiness
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tists.html

My approach is fairly similar to Gavin's. I'll carb up the day before, but I don't eat much during a day of fighting. I'll usually bring along a bunch of bananas for the potassium, and a protein drink.

A couple hours after the fighting is done for the day, though, my appetite comes back with a vengeance!

Before and during fighting I don't eat much. Fighting with a full stomach makes me want to puke. A light breakfast (a granola bar or 2), and lunch is usually some pretzels. Water and Gatorade thorughout the day. After fighting I typically want some sort of protein, but carbs and veggies really kick in also. A beer or two helps with the soreness.

Robert The Stout.

While fighting the primary thing your body is losing is water and electrolytes.

Think about the time you spend on the field. In your armour you're pretty much always sweating (heck I sweat through my gambeson at a frostbite tourney). But most of the time is spent standing around or maybe walking. Interspersed are brief bits of max intensity action. While those are physically demanding, they don't actually burn that many calories. And your muscles also highly active, but you shouldn't be sore like you are after a session of strength training.

The needs are to replace electrolytes and water. You don't actually have a high need for either carbs or protein at this time.

There are plenty of ways to replenish electrolytes: gatorade, jerky, pickles etc. So you need to find what appeals to you and what has worked in the past.

You need to eat enough that you don't feel hungry or tired. Obviously those will impede performance and these will vary from person to person and how that day is going (or how last night went). And to meet this need you should eat whatever you like to eat and has worked for you in the past. Eating lean meats is going to be preferable to fatty meats, for most people, because the fattier meals tend to be harder on the digestion.

The question asked was about event foods. And not recovery from training. Training should be much more demanding than fighting and so the needs are different and increased.

Cheers,
Steven

* This advice comes from just having aced my Nutrition for Performance class. I'm an Exercise and Health Science major, with a concentration in Fitness Instruction and Management

Tomburr wrote:Protein, protein, protein.

Your muscles are starved and it's time to feed 'em right.
Turkey, chicken, fish, eggs, take your pick. Accent with some whole grains & veggies.
. . .

You don't burn protein for energy under normal circumstance. Protein metabolism has noxious by-products (due to the nitrogen), so the body always keeps it to a minimum. Except in starvation. Using your muscles a bunch doesn't lead to protein metabolism.

If your muscles are sore, and in need of repair, then protein is needed. But the repair process takes time. If you're sore on Saturday then the repair process won't be complete until Monday or Tuesday. Protein consumption does not meaningfully affect this process. Protein consumption simply isn't gonna make a difference for Sunday.

Of course, that's no reason not to eat food you enjoy!

bigfredb wrote:If you care to, go to your local GNC type store and get Amino Acid pills (basically already broken down protiens). Helps a lot with quick recovery.

The enzymes of the small intestine break down all protein consumed into it's constituent amino acids before the amino acids are transferred across the cell membrane from the intestine to the blood. As such, consuming amino acids, instead of whole protein, does not create a benefit. The literature on the subject has found little evidence of performance enhancement from amino acid supplementation.

If you happen to be not getting enough protein from other sources then the supplement may be just as good a source as any other and convenient. But it has no additional benefits.

For other sources of convenient protein mixed nuts are good. And the lipids in them are healthier than the ones in meats.

Cheers,
Steven

Steven - If you aren't fighting hard enough to burn a bunch of energy and you aren't working at it enough to be sore after (from the exertion, not the beating ) then you are not playing hard enough.

I do agree that what you eat during the course of the day's fighting is all about keeping appropriate electrolyte balance, and not about fueling the engine or repairing muscles.

Steven H wrote:

bigfredb wrote:If you care to, go to your local GNC type store and get Amino Acid pills (basically already broken down protiens). Helps a lot with quick recovery.

The enzymes of the small intestine break down all protein consumed into it's constituent amino acids before the amino acids are transferred across the cell membrane from the intestine to the blood. As such, consuming amino acids, instead of whole protein, does not create a benefit. The literature on the subject has found little evidence of performance enhancement from amino acid supplementation.

I was not referring to performance enhancement with the use of Amino Acids, it is to help with repair of muscles following a hard workout. If taken within 30 minutes after your final workout, Amino acids are then able to get into your system faster because the body does not need to utilize additional energy to break the protiens down. After 30 minutes, then whole protiens are just as good.

I'm not an exercise major. I have no literature to quote, just first hand experience with LOTS of different techniques, foods, etc. This technique was presented to me by a Sports Trainer I was working with, and it worked for me.

bigfredb wrote: I was not referring to performance enhancement with the use of Amino Acids, it is to help with repair of muscles following a hard workout. If taken within 30 minutes after your final workout, Amino acids are then able to get into your system faster because the body does not need to utilize additional energy to break the protiens down. After 30 minutes, then whole protiens are just as good.

I'm not an exercise major. I have no literature to quote, just first hand experience with LOTS of different techniques, foods, etc. This technique was presented to me by a Sports Trainer I was working with, and it worked for me.

First, fighting at an event should not put your muscles in the situation of needing repair from being worked hard. If it does, then you are not training enough. The OP asked about event food. And I already acknowledged the need for a different approach when training.

Second, muscle regeneration takes days the few minutes faster that amino acids are gonna get into your system won't change that. This is why every strength training resource says not to exercise the same muscles two days in a row. It's just not possible to repair more quickly than that. This is what the literature shows.

Third, first hand experience isn't a controlled study. The people breaking world records today do so because the plans they follow have been developed by rigorous science. First hand experience didn't break as many records in the first half of the 20th century as science did in the 2nd half.

Fourth, faster recovery is a type of performance enhancement, because it allows for more training. So when I say that the literature does not show an improvement in performance we are talking about the same thing.

Cheers,
Steven

Steven H wrote:

bigfredb wrote: I was not referring to performance enhancement with the use of Amino Acids, it is to help with repair of muscles following a hard workout. If taken within 30 minutes after your final workout, Amino acids are then able to get into your system faster because the body does not need to utilize additional energy to break the protiens down. After 30 minutes, then whole protiens are just as good.

I'm not an exercise major. I have no literature to quote, just first hand experience with LOTS of different techniques, foods, etc. This technique was presented to me by a Sports Trainer I was working with, and it worked for me.

First, fighting at an event should not put your muscles in the situation of needing repair from being worked hard. If it does, then you are not training enough. The OP asked about event food. And I already acknowledged the need for a different approach when training.

Second, muscle regeneration takes days the few minutes faster that amino acids are gonna get into your system won't change that. This is why every strength training resource says not to exercise the same muscles two days in a row. It's just not possible to repair more quickly than that. This is what the literature shows.

Third, first hand experience isn't a controlled study. The people breaking world records today do so because the plans they follow have been developed by rigorous science. First hand experience didn't break as many records in the first half of the 20th century as science did in the 2nd half.

Fourth, faster recovery is a type of performance enhancement, because it allows for more training. So when I say that the literature does not show an improvement in performance we are talking about the same thing.

Cheers,
Steven

Steve, maybe you've met an unusual subset of SCA fighters who are actually in good physical condition and training for their sport in a serious and dedicated manner, such that they never compete at an event as hard as they work out training for thew event.

Most of us, even upper echelon types, are not those people. We do, in fact, work hard enough at a good fighting event to achieve muscle soreness from the effort put out.

Please adjust accordingly, because your audience is not a group of pro or semi-pro athletes whose primary job is optimizing their athletic performance. Most of your audience gets one practice a week (on average) and maybe one event a month. And that is likely most of their exercise ;")

Gavin, I understand your point.

That being said, my bigger point, about protein, is unchanged. Soreness takes more time to repair than the length of a typical event. It would matter for Pennsic, but, again, any quality protein is sufficient.

And while fighting, the primary thing used up is water and electrolytes.

Cheers,
Steven

Steven H wrote:Gavin, I understand your point.

That being said, my bigger point, about protein, is unchanged. Soreness takes more time to repair than the length of a typical event. It would matter for Pennsic, but, again, any quality protein is sufficient.

And while fighting, the primary thing used up is water and electrolytes.

Cheers,
Steven

AWESOME news!!!

What you're saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to recover from fighting in anything less than days....

So....

EAT BACON!!!!

Eirik wrote:
AWESOME news!!!

What you're saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to recover from fighting in anything less than days....

So....

EAT BACON!!!!

One of the things I liked about my nutrition class was the repeated emphasis on Enjoying Food.

And the only thing that doesn't recover in a day or less is muscle soreness of the kind that would be fixed by protein consumption. There are different ways for a muscle to be sore (including Delayed Onset, where I don't hurt until after I get home from the event ).

Some of those other kinds of sore can be fixed faster. For instance cramps may be fixed by stretching, massage and/or electrolytes depending on cause.

And there are different aspects to recovery: fluids, electrolytes, glycogen re-synthesis etc.

Of course, if you are paid in Bacon, you must eat the Bacon.

Cheers,
Steven

Thanks for not taking my reply too seriously and busting my chops!

I find that, mostly, I need fluids and electrolytes to recover.

I do try to eat a little extra protein over the next couple of days, as I was always told during football workouts that your muscles would require it to build more muscle. Are you saying this is not true, or just that there is no imediate need for protein?

Eirik wrote:Thanks for not taking my reply too seriously and busting my chops!

I find that, mostly, I need fluids and electrolytes to recover.

I do try to eat a little extra protein over the next couple of days, as I was always told during football workouts that your muscles would require it to build more muscle. Are you saying this is not true, or just that there is no imediate need for protein?

The conversation, up to now, has been about event recovery. Protein consumption, and the form it takes, will not meaningfully change this.

People engaging in vigorous strength training need more protein than those who don't, though. However, the typical American diet has enough protein in it that no extra is required for strength training. In other words, most of us don't need to eat more meat 'cause of fighting or training. To emphasize, I'm comparing minimum requirements and typical consumption pattern.

So if you eat a typical Western diet, than you don't have a specific need to increase protein because of your fighting.

Again, if you're getting everything you need, then eat what you like. It's more fun.

Cheers,
Steven

Masaru Ohtani and colleagues from the University of Tokyo studied the impact of the amino acid mixture of branched chain amino acids, arginine and glutamine on participants performing high intensity resistance exercise for 90 days. They found that subjects taking the amino acid mixture were able to recover quicker and experienced less muscle damage at the end of the study compared to baseline values, according to research published in the February 2006 issue of the "Journal of Nutrition."

This study appears to support my first hand experience. It may also be because I take them regularly see this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20300014.

I work out strenously every day. My cardio & strenght training are not specifically geared toward SCA fighting. I can say that I do get sore after a long day of fighting, but, Alas, I am also getting older.

Kilkenny wrote:Steven - If you aren't fighting hard enough to burn a bunch of energy and you aren't working at it enough to be sore after (from the exertion, not the beating ) then you are not playing hard enough.

Blame that on my opponents.

But really, other than a little extra water, I don't do anything differently just because I've fought.

igelkott wrote:Chocolate milk is awesome after fighting.

Yup! It is one of the better post workout drinks out there.

Uric