Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Book"

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Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Book"

Post by Greg Mele »

Dear All,

Many of you will have seen Christian Tobler's post concerning the resolution of the authors' dispute with Brian and Ann Price d/b/a Chivalry Bookshelf/Revival Enterprises.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=157458

This was the resolution of a long, protracted legal dispute which first began here on the Armour Archive, bringing to light a series of revelations about Brian Price's business dealings with his authors, as well as a long and torturous recounting of similar dealings as an armourer, clothier, product commissioner and patron of other artisans. I really don't want to recount all of that here, but for those whose curiosity gets the better of them, there are twenty five pages preserved here that recount the entire long, sordid and continuous pattern of dissembling, false promises, sub-standard product, mailed checks that never materialize and outright theft:

viewtopic.php?t=129990&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

For those who want the short strokes, Brian's Wikipedia page should suffice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_R._Price

I promised all of you that I would post when all was resolved, and a resolution was reached. Since Christian made his announcement, we've received a number of questions about other titles, other authors, etc. Due to the terms of the settlement, Christian and the other authors have a non-disclosure agreement, and cannot discuss details. I, however, have no such restraints, and can and will answer those questions with this summary.

1. Why aren't Stephen Hand, Bill Wilson, Paul Wagner, Mark Rector or John Greer's books included on the Freelance website?
Simple - they chose not to be a part of the lawsuit, each for their own reasons. Actually, Paul Wagner wanted to join the case, but with his two co authors (Rector and Hand, respectively) declining, he had little recourse.

2. Did those authors receive a settlement?
Well, while doing nothing, the other authors actually profited from *our* actions. Once it became clear that we were going to go through with arbitration, Ann Price rushed to try cut deals for cash and return of rights to each of the above. I do not know the particulars.

Now, I am sure that Ann will try and claim that she and Brian always intended to make those payments - much as Brian tried to claim on the original thread here. What I can confirm, and supply ample evidence to, is that Ann had never contacted anyone until the case moved forward, and until she had begun to try and cut individual deals with the various parties in the legal case, if they would just drop out.

I suppose some people will choose to believe Ann's story, much as many people believe that Ann is not a party to Brian's deeds. But then, some people believe in the Easter Bunny, too. The words of P.T. Barnum looms large here.

3. What will happen to those authors' titles?
I don't know. My understanding is that the authors have their rights back, so Chivalry Bookshelf/Revival Enterprises can continue to sell its stock (oh yes, more on that, later), but the authors can also do whatever they want right now to create new editions.

4. Why isn't Greg Mele's "Arte Gladiatoria" title available at Freelance?
Well, it *is* available .... from Chivalry Bookshelf. (And thus, the subtitle of this thread.) Here is what happened:

Brian's contract with my co-author, Luca Porzio, required binding arbitration - I had no such arbitration agreement with Brian, either for author or editorial royalties. Once it became clear that the Prices would force the case into arbitration, Luca decided to withdraw from the case, as he could not see how to be part of an international dispute, which could drag on for some time, where the publisher refused to provide our counsel with:

a. independently verifiable sales numbers - not their own home-grown spreadsheets;

b. an inventory of remaining product and its current retail value;

c. had already been found "dumping" titles on a resell and Lulu site to try and liquidate the stock of the titles that were in dispute.

Brian also sent Luca an email accusing me of leading a witch-hunt, and asserting that he had never believed me to be a "legal co-author" and that he had "granted that as a courtesy", and asking that Luca immediately accept a check for back royalties, and write a letter supporting Brian's position

I will let you all imagine how that story can make sense, seeing as a) the book is copyrighted in my name, b) Luca specifically named me as a co-author in his own acknowledgments to the book, c)I have an email from 2011 from Luca reaffirming my role as the co-author, d) the one and only royalty payment Luca received before Brian attempted to buy him off in the 11th hour stated that the total royalty had been divided in half for the "co-author, Gregory Mele". (No, I never saw that other half of the royalty payment.)

With Luca removed from the case, we knew that it would be a challenge to have my case heard by the arbitrator, but at the same time, we couldn't take the entire case to court, because the other authors *did* have an arbitration clause. As expected, the arbitrator ruled that although he felt there was a good case for copyright infringement, he could not rule on my part of the suit because he did not have the authority to do so. Note, he did not say that Mr. and Mrs. Price had done nothing wrong; merely that I should sue them in court.

At the point the arbitrator made this ruling, we had legal bills that would buy a nice sedan, and were fighting over property worth perhaps $60K. To fly down to Texas for arbitration was another $10K in arbitration plus legal fees (again, just for *our* side, not total), and so we finally got Ann Price to agree to settlement terms, which included returning the remaining copies of Arte Gladiatoria to Luca Porzio or his designate. The attorneys literally negotiated this on the last day before we were on the hook to go to Texas. We notified the arbitrator that a settlement was in process and we were promised the written contract on the following Monday.

Having averted another extensive set of costs, and bought herself some breathing room, Ann Price then did what she and Brian always do - they reneged. Rather than surrender the books and the cash agreement, she attempted to radically change the terms of the settlement to splitting the value of the books after they were sold on remainder. That was the *first* bad-faith agreement. There would be three other back-and-forths in which an agreement was reached only because we made it clear that we intended to go back to arbitration and then, Ann pulled out or refused to sign the agreement drawn up by her own attorney. The final fiasco was a constant insistence that she had never received confirmation from Luca Porzio as to what to do with the books - first by refusing to acknowledge an email sent by him, then miraculously, all of their emails ceased to work, then claiming to have never received his letter.

Finally, an email and registered letter, copying their attorney made that delay unfeasible, so Ann changed the deal, again. She and Brian had decided that they would, under no circumstances allow the remaining copies of Arte Gladiatoria to be any part of a settlement or dispersed in any other way that anyone, including Luca, might direct them so that I received compensation.

At some point, practicality must rear its ugly head. I could not drag this case on, with no clear way to resolve both sets of issues, without accruing thousands of dollars more in court costs, for what the Prices claim was about 80 books. So, I agreed to be separated from the settlement, but at the same time made it clear that I would not be part of the final agreement, nor sign a mutual non-disparagement, etc. Although, I will add that Ann Price tried to hold the settlement hostage to indeed get me to sign that gag agreement. I'll let ya'all be the judge in what my possible motivation or benefit in doing that would be.

(Before people post asking me why I didn't sue the Prices in court, that would be because I have personally already spent more money in legal fees than the remaining product is worth, and as Brian copyrighted but did not fully register my work, the case would be ineligible for punitive damages. Even were that not so, Texas law makes it virtually *impossible* to collect cash settlements if the sued party does not have liquid cash to pay it off immediately. Some free advice: if you want to be screw someone in business, move to Texas. Come to think of it, Brian did say when he moved that it was extremely advantageous to his business to do so. I thought he meant the tax rate.)

So, to be really, really clear: if you buy my book, anywhere, you are only giving money to the Prices - not to me, and I doubt Luca will ever see another dime.

5. So is Chivalry Bookshelf part of Revival Enterprises now, or not?
Great question - one I really wanted an answer to, and one in which I sought a straight answer to from the Adkins at Pennsic.

Here is what I was told directly, by Scott's wife:

• The Adkins bought Revival Enterpises outright from Brian Price;
• Although Ann sometimes provides advice or answers questions, she and Brian are no longer involved in the business in any form;
• They are only selling books via the website, and only the ones that they were told by Brian had no legal issues tied to them.
• The books were being sold as a courtesy to Brian and Ann

We discussed the ownership and explained that if the business were separate than we certainly bore the Adkins no ill will - indeed, we even offered to author a formal statement to that affect, as she was telling us that sales were down from the boycott. It was very positive, very pleasant, and there were hugs all around.

Sadly, I'm now pretty sure it wasn't true. During the conversation, we kept hearing about "well, we figure we'll change the name over the course of three years or so, as we run down product" and "the website domain can't be changed until the contract expires" (anyone ever bought a domain name? If so, does that sound fishy?)

If we start with who owns the website, it is *not* Scott Adkins, it is Brian Price:

http://www.who.is/whois/revival.us/

Note the following:
Expires On April 23, 2017
Registered On April 24, 2002
Updated On February 16, 2011

Brian owns the site until 2017.

Then, as Brian Price himself posts in his updated LinkedIn profile:
Transitioned the business in 2011 to a silent partnership as my professional interests shifted to the policy/academic realm.
Further, I should add that during discovery and investigation pending the arbitration, we could find no records of any sale of inventory, assets, etc between Brian and Ann Price (remember, Revival Enterprises and Chivalry Bookshelf are not corporations, merely D/B/As) and the Adkins. Nothing. So, either:

a. no money changed hands and the Adkins are buying the business via sweat equity, which is fine, but directly refutes what I was told to my face - "we bought it outright and Brian and Ann have nothing to do with this business";

b. money changed hands, but it was all under-the-table;

c. there was never a sale.

I have no idea which it is, and I really don't care. I also don't care what Scott Adkins does for a living, but if you go into business with a known thief and fraud, then that is different than buying a business outright. I *do* care that I was lied to, by someone I've never done a thing to, and that at the same time Scott was receiving an accolade for chivalry, he seems to be promulgating the same behavior as another "knight". I know that many people besides myself have asked a direct question about this, and investigation doesn't mirror what we've been told to our face.
The marketplace can make of that whatever they will, but for my part, if your reason for wanting to know is not to put money in Brian Price's hands, I would be very, very leery without some cold, hard proof.

Normally, I would say something pithy here to wrap up this post, but frankly, there's just nothing funny about people who write and pontificate on "chivalry", and name their business "Chivalry Bookshelf" while continuously defrauding "friends" or honest business people. It's best that those sorts of folks are treated to precisely the same mechanism of "renown" of which Brian loved to write: their true natures and colors having been shown, their natures being known, let their names forever be a by-word for "disreputable business", a cautionary tale for all of us, and a reminder of how not to behave for those of us who are ourselves running a small business.

I apologize for the long winded post, but now I've done as I promised I would, and frankly, I would deeply like to never hear the names Brian and Ann Price again. I have always said that the law is not inherently good or moral; rather it exists to compel people to do things, or to hold them accountable for behaviors, that their character should have dictated in the first place. That's why, more than any settlement, I appreciate the words and support of each of you who came to our defense either with evidence of your own - Will McLean/Galleron, Chris Gillman/Gaston, "Lady Charlotte", Doug Strong/Talbot, Sean Garrison/Vitus, Sir Menken - or just to express your support, such as Luca Sogliano, Jeff and Charlotte Johnson, Tasha Kelly, Otto von Teich, Sir Olafr, Cuan and many, many, many others who posted, wrote us privately or have come up to us at Pennsic to say "hang in there". It meant a great, great deal to see how bringing our case before you led to such an up-swell of support in the marketplace, and more than anything, drove this to a resolution.

Best regards,

Gregory Mele
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Luca Sogliano »

Thank you, Greg. I feel that you did a service to the community, even if you technically didn't "win."

I think Murdock needs to provide some answers. I was definitely not satisfied by his answers when I asked some very direct questions about ownership a year ago, and he evaded them, and then disappeared from the thread. I found it disturbingly Price-like.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by freiman the minstrel »

Somebody please tell me that TOMAR isn't a Brian Price book.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Thorsteinn Raudskeggr »

Mine shaft party? ;)
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Kilkenny »

freiman the minstrel wrote:Somebody please tell me that TOMAR isn't a Brian Price book.

Can't do that...
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Greg Mele »

Luca,

In the end I always new that there was a reasonable likelihood that when Luca P dropped out, I might be caught in a Catch-22. In the end, the goal of all the authors was to simply make it known what really happened and to end a constant pattern of predation by Brian Price. If we've done that, our lawyers get paid and the other authors have their rights back, I can live with that.

Greg
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Russ Mitchell »

Thanks, Greg.

I *still* get disbelieving screeds from people who can't believe I won't hang out with that guy and his cronies, b/c they're local to me and Brian's b.s. only cost me time rather than the money *and* time he cost you guys.

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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Knight Sir James »

Very interested in what's going on with this "sale" to Murdock from last year. I avoided any transactions just off the history of the company, even with new owners - perhaps wisely so....
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by white mountain armoury »

What a disaster Greg, for you and the other authors.
I am very sorry you and the others had to deal with something like this.
Its shameful behavior on the part of the Prices, and those who willingly aid them.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Ingvarr »

freiman the minstrel wrote:Somebody please tell me that TOMAR isn't a Brian Price book.
You weren't aware that "Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction" by Brian R. Price was a Brian Price book?
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by losthelm »

This is a great opertunity to find a new publisher and agent.
People that wright and research continue, I wonder what titles can be rushed to press.

Heck there are enough titles and authors to form new publishing house.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Ken Mondschein »

losthelm wrote: Heck there are enough titles and authors to form new publishing house.
Totally. They should start with some rapier texts by Tom Leoni.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Antonio »

I'm sorry about this, Greg. You deserved better.

And on the subject of a new publishing house, could we get the 2nd volume of the Silver interpretation? And perhaps a reprint/reworking of Forgeng's Meyer book?
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Greg Mele »

Thank you all.

It was unpleasant, but it's over. People now know the whole story.

As regard the ownership issue:

1. there are still things on the website we asked the Adkins to remove - like Christian Tobler's picture, and were told that *Ann* had to do it. How do you not have control of your own website?

2. The most recent products - a hat and hoods - are modeled by Brian's kids: http://revival.us/search.aspx?find=hoods

To be clear, the Adkins have always been nice to me, and if they own this outright - as I was told, I sure don't want to see them lynched; I have no doubt that their heart and soul went into buying this. But something doesn't entirely add up - I've seen people asking about this here over the last year and have had to be quiet because the books were still in Ann Price's possession. Hopefully, we'll find out what is what, and if the sale was finalized, then God bless and good luck.

As to Jeff Forgeng's book, that is extremely complicated, as regards rights ownership. However, you will find a "Reprint Jeffrey Forgeng's Meyer" Facebook page that gives updates and details. Jeffrey and I are discussing some other projects, however.

As regards Steve's Silver book(s) - again, Steve wasn't in the settlement, so I don't have any details.

Best,

Greg
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Greg Mele »

Two other points of clarity:

1. Remember, Jeffrey's book that we got the rights back to was I.33, Meyer was published by Greenhill.

2. There obviously already *is* another publisher out there - us! Really, Freelance was created precisely because we couldn't do business with the Prices any longer.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Ed Toton »

Wow, thank you so much for following up with this. Of particular interest to me is the state of Revival.us, since I've been telling folks that it's OK to order from there now, and it's useful to hear an update on how that might not be the case.

I was very interested in seeing where the chips would fall on the whole matter, especially with his writings on renown, as you pointed out. The news deserves to be spread far and wide.

Regards,
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Chris Gilman »

Having been involved in a few law suits, the path is never clear and true. Unlike the way it is portrayed in movies, it is a complicated, chess like game of out-maneuvering and using the legal landscape to make it as difficult as possible to reach a true and virtuous conclusion.
Or
Harder than capturing a greased weasel with hands wrapped in red tape.

Not to say Brian is a weasel, I don’t think even grease will stick to him.
Unfortunately it is the world we live in. I have a case right now where a person stole a large amount of money from me by forging checks (A felony) and it still has taken police 18 months to get the case ready to submit.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Tibbie Croser »

Thank you for reporting the outcome of the dispute, Greg.

Freelance Academy Press does publish Tom Leoni's rapier books. I bought them at Pennsic at the booth of the *other* Revival (Revival Clothing), I believe.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Steve S. »

I've been inactive on the Archive for over a year. My attentions have turned to competition black-powder shooting in the N-SSA.

I just read all 25 pages of the disaster last night.

It's probably the most depressing thing I've ever read here.

I've only met Brian and his wife a couple of times. We met at an Arms and Armour symposium at the Wallace Collection many years ago. I have met him at Pennsic. I hung out with him in the pavilion he and another (Talbot) were selling from at Pennsic and they let me display the riveted maille I was then selling. He always seemed so nice.

I own four books bought through Chivalry bookshelf. TOMAR, Wisby, The Book of the Tournament, and the Lull book. Some are even autographed by Brian. I really, really felt like this was a guy who had done something really tangibly good for the community, something that would help countless people for years and years to come. I felt like this guy was a pillar of what we do.

All of this is wrecked, and I feel so very, very sad about it.

I also know Murdock/Scott. He came over to my house years ago in Montgomery and bought some sub-standard, mis-represented products a vendor had shafted me with. I saw him at many events. I've always thought Scott was a great guy. Scott, if you are reading this, my advice would be to run away from this connection with Brian just as fast as you can.

My condolences to all of you who got tied up in this, and who came forward with your testimony.

What a disaster.

Steve
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Antonio »

Greg Mele wrote:
As to Jeff Forgeng's book, that is extremely complicated, as regards rights ownership. However, you will find a "Reprint Jeffrey Forgeng's Meyer" Facebook page that gives updates and details. Jeffrey and I are discussing some other projects, however.

As regards Steve's Silver book(s) - again, Steve wasn't in the settlement, so I don't have any details.

Best,

Greg
Yea, I'm on the FB group under my real name ;)


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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Greg Mele »

Well, then short strokes - if Jeff gets the rights, but can't get the new owners to reprint, we'd do it in a heartbeat. I love that work, and the irony is - I no longer own a copy!
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Antonio »

My wife offered to get it for me, when it was readily available, and I said, "Nah, most of it's Longsword. Don't fight longsword." Of course, THEN I didn't....
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Murdock »

"If we start with who owns the website, it is *not* Scott Adkins, it is Brian Price:"


Yup still using the old site till I can get a new one built. That is fairly common knowledge. I thought the website being the same address was fairly obvious. I am barely good enough at web admin to change the pics. I have a friend who has volunteered to do a new one, its just barely past "yes, i'll re do the site".

Never told anyone I wasn't using the old site, when I get a new site built that works i'll change it over.

I've changed the site some, still trying to make it look less and less like the old one.


"Brian owns the site until 2017. "

See above

"Then, as Brian Price himself posts in his updated LinkedIn profile:


Quote:

Transitioned the business in 2011 to a silent partnership as my professional interests shifted to the policy/academic realm."

They do still advise us on suppliers and a few other things about the biss. Never said they didn't. I'm doing the work and i'm getting the money. You even said we told you that Greg.


"Further, I should add that during discovery and investigation pending the arbitration, we could find no records of any sale of inventory, assets, etc between Brian and Ann Price (remember, Revival Enterprises and Chivalry Bookshelf are not corporations, merely D/B/As) and the Adkins. Nothing. So, either:"

Don't know about that. Not involved in that. I have not been contacted or involved in the case at all, in fact iirc isn't it done? Like in the summer.

I know _my_ company is not actually even called "Revival", It's a DBA like you say. We're not a public company so why would there be a record? Eventually we don't even want to be doing biss under the old name. For the reasons apparent here.
We use the name as a BDA like you said, there was no "Revival" to buy as it were. We got the inventory and the permission to use the name as a DBA.

We own the stuff. And I have all the inventory, I have a small handful of books. None of which are under dispute. Only ones I have under dispute are my personal copies of the disputed ones. I can fit all the Bookshelf books I have in one tote.

"a. no money changed hands and the Adkins are buying the business via sweat equity, which is fine, but directly refutes what I was told to my face - "we bought it outright and Brian and Ann have nothing to do with this business";"

Don't know what you were told in the booth, I was out, but we did pay them money. Brian nor Anne have filled an order to the website in over a year. It's all in my house. Brian even had to order some gear from _me_ because he didn't have any.


"c. there was never a sale."

Fooled me, I must not have all these shoes in my house then. I must not be dealing with customs all the time and answering emails from customers and doing the event taxes. If I'm not the operator/ owner why am I doing all this work? Oh wait because i'm getting the money :)

"I have no idea which it is, and I really don't care. I also don't care what Scott Adkins does for a living, but if you go into business with a known thief and fraud, then that is different than buying a business outright. I *do* care that I was lied to,"

How were you lied to? You said Kate told you.

"• The Adkins bought Revival Enterpises outright from Brian Price;"

We have just that part, not the publishing part.

"• Although Ann sometimes provides advice or answers questions, she and Brian are no longer involved in the business in any form;"

Yep, I got a text from Anne about a guy that wanted a helmet. Most we've talked in months. They do not fill orders or do any of the other biss activities, money from the sales goes to my account. Dunno how I can be any more plain than that.

" • They are only selling books via the website, and only the ones that they were told by Brian had no legal issues tied to them.
• The books were being sold as a courtesy to Brian and Ann"

Yup, and I have very few of those.


I generally don't sell the books. You and Brian and whoever work out your contract issues. Which I thought yall had?
Don't drag me into this. I have talked to Brian maybe a half dozen times in 6 months. I don't sell the disputed books, Brian or Ann don't sell the shoes and WMA equipment. It's 2 different "companies".

"by someone I've never done a thing to, and that at the same time Scott was receiving an accolade for chivalry, he seems to be promulgating the same behavior as another "knight". I know that many people besides myself have asked a direct question about this, and investigation doesn't mirror what we've been told to our face. "

I have told everyone.
I run it. I have the shoes, the coats and the MA equipment and a few other things like buckles. I don't run the publishing thing. I have a few books and i'm in the process of changing the website and eventually the name.

So feel free to buy the disputed titles or not. I don't sell them.

"The marketplace can make of that whatever they will, but for my part, if your reason for wanting to know is not to put money in Brian Price's hands, I would be very, very leery without some cold, hard proof."

Dunno how I can prove it. Can't show you money I don't spend. Not like I have a receipt for a bill to Brian that doesn't exist or a carbon from a check to Brian that was never written.

"Normally, I would say something pithy here to wrap up this post, but frankly, there's just nothing funny about people who write and pontificate on "chivalry", and name their business "Chivalry Bookshelf".

Whew....must not mean me I _don't run_ Chiv Bookshelf.

"while continuously defrauding "friends" or honest business people."

If anyone thinks I have defrauded them lemme know. My customer service isn't as great as i'd like, but I get people their stuff as fast as I can and when i'm out of something I try and let em know.

I'm not Brian and I don't have anything to do with the bookshelf. He has the books, what ever issues the authors have with him is their deal.

Not even sure why i'm being brought up in this.

You folks on this board have known me for longer than any other group of guys I know. I'd hope yall would know that if I tell you i'm running things I am. Brian and Anne's involvement is at a trickle.

Anyone have questions for me, ask _me_. You have my PM box on here and my email and Face book. I'll answer as best I can.


I don't expect to need to read this thread again. As I'm not involved in this dispute between Brian and the Authors. Only thing I ever did was move them out of the warehouse into a storage unit. That is my involvement with the books, lugging them in the Texas heat.

Brian and Anne are still my friends and have been nothing but good to me. The terms of us buying this end of it from them were more very generous, and i'll never forget how much they have helped me and mine. I know I still owe folks armour, working on fixing that too. I've made more than enough mistakes of my own, this thing with the books and the authors isn't one of mine. I'm trying hard to rebuild this end of the business and if I can get anyone back as a customer that the "bookshelf dispute" cost us, i'll do the best I can.

' nuff said
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Gaston de Clermont »

Steve -SoFC- wrote: I really, really felt like this was a guy who had done something really tangibly good for the community, something that would help countless people for years and years to come. I felt like this guy was a pillar of what we do.
I feel that Brian has done quite a bit of good for the community, and he did stand as a pillar of it for quite some time, even while every word Greg says could be true. Unfortunately his story also serves as a lesson to us all that we each have the power to taint and destroy our own legacy. I'm sad that the authors, folks we're really indebted to for the content they've brought to us, still haven't gotten all that they deserve, and that it's taken so much to get any of it.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Greg Mele »

Scott,

Look, I am hardly the only person to question who owns Revival.us in the last year, or to get dodgy answers - Luca is one such person, another gentleman brought this topic up *just this week*. So this isn't a vendetta. I have zip against you and Kate personally, but I also know when things don't jive.

I'm not interested in a debate, so let's keep it simple:

1. "I Don't Have Any of the Disputed Titles"
Actually, until I separated from the case at the end of summer, you were selling *my* book on your website, where it still lives. Now, as we resolved the suit, Brian and Ann can sell it - but for 15 months it was very much part of a lawsuit, and you knew that - you would have to, as you yourself replied on that 25 page thread.

But this gets more confusing since, as we'll see in a minute, you say you don't have any of the disputed titles, but then you don't have any titles at all, but then you do, because the Prices don't fill orders, but then you don't, because they do...

2. The site ownership.
Yup still using the old site till I can get a new one built. That is fairly common knowledge. I thought the website being the same address was fairly obvious. I am barely good enough at web admin to change the pics. I have a friend who has volunteered to do a new one, its just barely past "yes, i'll re do the site".
There is a difference between *using* a site and *ownership*. The site is owned by Brian Price. I have never heard of anyone buying an internet business and not buying the domain and having control of their own website.
They do still advise us on suppliers and a few other things about the biss. Never said they didn't. I'm doing the work and i'm getting the money. You even said we told you that Greg.
Yes, and what I also said today is that what Kate told me and what a little digging turns up doesn't match. Now, again, if you are comfortable having your financials accessed and controlled by them, hey, that is your business. But what is relevant here is that Brian R. Price is the one who claims to be a silent partner; all I did was quote the man's own words. Why? Because people don't want to do business with him, and have asked me personally for months if it was "OK to do business with Revival.us now". Based on what Kate told me at Pennsic, I have spent the last three months telling people "yes, I was told that the Prices have neither ownership nor control of the business". Based on Brian's update of his page *this fall*, that is not true.

A silent partner is not the same as not owning a business. It means that you do the leg work; he has a financial stake of some sort. Getting others to do the grunge work has always been a favorite modus operandi of Brian's, so I can see the appeal.

So, which is it? If Brian isn't a silent partner, then I'm sure he'll change his LinkedIn page immediately and change the ownership info on the domain and website. That takes *minutes* to do.

3. Records of Ownership
We're not a public company so why would there be a record? ...We got the inventory and the permission to use the name as a DBA.
Well, we both own physical inventory-based companies - you do realize that when you buy tens of thousands of dollars of inventory there is usually a bill of sale, and tax records to accompany it? Because inventory value has to be accounted for with the IRS? Also, usually when someone "get the inventory and permission to use the name as a D/B/A" there is usually a contract. Doesn't have to be filed, of course, but usually people have a contract drawn up by a lawyer, especially as they have to do a physical inventory to see if they got what they bought.
Don't know what you were told in the booth, I was out, but we did pay them money. Brian nor Anne have filled an order to the website in over a year. It's all in my house. Brian even had to order some gear from _me_ because he didn't have any.
That's fine, but that is not what I or others have asked. Brian Price claims to be a silent partner - by definition, he wouldn't be filling orders or holding stock. But if, by his words, not mine, Brian is a silent partner, that suggests that either you haven't paid them in full, so he retains partial ownership, or that he never intended to fully sell the business.
Fooled me, I must not have all these shoes in my house then. I must not be dealing with customs all the time and answering emails from customers and doing the event taxes. If I'm not the operator/ owner why am I doing all this work? Oh wait because i'm getting the money :)
Sure, but again, Brian Price is the one who states that he is a silent partner.

Bottom line is:

a. Brian R. Price, no one else, writes "Transitioned the business in 2011 to a silent partnership as my professional interests shifted to the policy/academic realm" on his own LinkedIn page, and he altered that page to read as such after he returned from Afghanistan, and therefore more than a year after the sale was supposed to have happened.

b. silent partners are just that - silent. They don't fill orders or hold inventory, so your mentioning that you are doing all of the operations is irrelevant. That would be your job, not Brian and Ann's, anyway.

Scott, this is a simple question - do Brian and Ann Price maintain any current ownership, silent partnership or financial stake in the business selling through Revival.us? If not, on what date did they stop receiving compensation?

4. Revival Enterprises vs. CB
• The Adkins bought Revival Enterpises outright from Brian Price;"
We have just that part, not the publishing part.
Well, you could save yourself a lot of trouble then, by doing as I discussed with Kate and

a. changing the domain name - which she told me that she *couldn't do*, which is absurd - you can make a domain whatever you want and have revival.us point to the new locale.

b. not have CB products on your site, if it isn't your business and you don't handle those orders.

c. stop signing your own posts with CB's name.

d. not have been selling *my* book while it was an active part of a legal dispute.
They do not fill orders or do any of the other biss activities, money from the sales goes to my account. Dunno how I can be any more plain than that.
Well, two ways:

The first would be explaining how you can say that "they do not fill orders or do any of the other biz activities" and then say:
I generally don't sell the books. ... I don't sell the disputed books, Brian or Ann don't sell the shoes and WMA equipment. It's 2 different "companies".
and
i'm not Brian and I don't have anything to do with the bookshelf. He has the books, what ever issues the authors have with him is their deal.
and
Brian and Anne's involvement is at a trickle.
Because you've contradicted yourself here. Either Brian and Ann don't fill any orders or they do. Either all of the money goes to you or it doesn't.

The second is to answer the original question: do Brian and Ann Price maintain any current ownership, silent partnership or financial stake in the business selling through Revival.us? If not, on what date did they stop receiving compensation?

Because if there are products on Revival.us that the Prices own, or if they do fill some orders, or if they are silent partners, then people have a right to know, and been asking this for over a year - because they do not want to do business with Brian and Ann Price under any circumstances. It may suck for you and Kate to be tarred by that brush, but that is a risk one takes when buying a business owned by nefarious business people. As long as these very simple questions aren't answered clearly, and as long as Brian Price himself claims on his LinkedIn page that he "Transitioned the business in 2011 to a silent partnership as my professional interests shifted to the policy/academic realm" and he altered that page to read as such in fall of 2012 after he returned from Afghanistan, and therefore more than a year after the sale was supposed to have happened, it makes it look like you are hiding something, or at least intentionally muddying the waters. After some point, it won't matter what the truth is - you'll be stuck with that reputation.
You folks on this board have known me for longer than any other group of guys I know. I'd hope yall would know that if I tell you i'm running things I am.
That's an appeal to sympathy, and is irrelevant. Hell, I joined the Archive three months after Matt Broadway brought it online, and met you in the very beginning. People knew Brian Price and trusted him for years, made excuses, believed his stories. I feel that pain keenly - I got the T-shirt and secret decoder ring as a charter member of the "Screwed and Told to Like It By Brian Price Club."

Look at what I'm not saying: I am not saying that you are Brian, or have engaged in any of his business practices. Nor do I think that you are culpable for his behaviors with Chivalry Bookshelf and Revival.us prior to your ownership. I have no reason to doubt that you run your affairs on the up and up. Nor do you have anything to do with the legal dispute, which is resolved, as I have said before.

But I am saying that whether or not Brian and Ann are your friends, they are pariahs with many people who do not want to give them money. What those people want is simple - answer the following, without any ambiguity:

do Brian and Ann Price maintain any current ownership, silent partnership or financial stake in the business selling through Revival.us? If not, on what date did they stop receiving compensation?
Anyone have questions for me, ask _me_.
I just did.

Best wishes,

Greg
Last edited by Greg Mele on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Chris Gilman »

I guess the answer is very simple; if you suspect someone has AIDs, and they refuse or are unable to show proof that they don't, don’t sleep with them.

Why is it so difficult for people to see a pattern? I have known Brian since the mid 80's and virtually every business deal I have been involved in, or friends have been involved in with him, have had some level of deceit and lies on Brian’s part, in many cases outright fraud & theft. He uses his SCA titles to further his manipulation of people and uses these people for his own benefit, yet the SCA claims no jurisdiction and does nothing. Now we have a 25 page thread laying out further proof. I have waived this flag a few times and people say, “He was very nice to me…”

I’m sure Bernie Madoff was extremely nice to people and many liked him, he is still a crook. But If the general public had known he was a crook, then investors would have steered clear of any firm associated with him. If this happened, all firms would distance themselves from this type of person fearing the consequences and damage to their businesses. As a result, these crooks could not function in their line of work.
I am surprised that any company that had ties with Brian & Ann are not going to extreme measures to prove they have nothing to do with the Price’s, especially in such a small community. I would be very suspicious of any that didn’t.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Steve S. »

Like I told my friend Murdock in a private message, if he really is separated from Brian Price and Revival.us is now his baby, he needs to scrub that web site immediately. Like this week.

Steve
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Russ Mitchell »

Pretty much; I got nothing against Murdock, but he ain't getting a dime of my play-money unless I know it's never going anywhere near those scum.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Steve S. »

Also, as an aside, I have always found the whole "Revival" vs. "Revival.us" vs. "Chivalry Bookshelf" thing to be very confusing. I was never sure which entity was which or what the relationships were between any of them.

I think it would have been smarter for Revival, and now Revival.us to change to some other unrelated name. Especially now.

Steve
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by SirOlafr »

Such a sad tale this continues to be.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Saritor »

Greg Mele wrote: a. changing the domain name - which she told me that she *couldn't do*, which is absurd - you can make a domain whatever you want and have revival.us point to the new locale.
Greg,

It's actually more accurately the other way 'round. The server that hosts Revival.us exists at an address. You can point other domains towards that address, or you can point them towards Revival.us. The ability to actually just change the site name depends on how the current Revival.us site is developed and hosted.

If the site has multiple domains on a single address, as some hosting providers do, it may only recognize calls to Revival.us for that site, and dump everything else to a generic page if it's just an address coming in. It may just be that the pages were written with revival.us as a part of each and every link, or any number of situations that could make it difficult for people who are not computer savvy to change the site. I've never even bothered to look at what the back-end of revival.us might be, what it's written/designed with, or anything else. It could be that it's tied in to and hosted via the Chivalry Bookshelf server, and Brian doesn't care to separate it, and the storefront mechanism.

There are also non-technical reasons why it would continue to be owned by Brian Price, but I just wanted to point out that there's some potential technical gray areas with the information we have currently that could explain why everything is still as it currently is.
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Steve S. »

I've changed my own domains, or registrars, a couple of times and it was a pain in the ass. The problem was that the people who manage the domain are not necessarily the same people as your web host provider. I could not remember any of my account information when it came time to move the domain. Trying to change a domain that is not in your name could be a real pain in the ass, especially if the owner doesn't cooperate with you.

At this point in time, my suspicion is that Murdock just isn't (admittedly) a web guru and while he has taken the reigns of the business over enough that he can handle the inventory and order fulfillment he hasn't put a lot of work into revamping the web site. I suspect this will have a new priority.

The whole "silent partner" thing might be explained by pride on Brian's part. The same way people who are fired say they were "let go" or "laid off" or "left to pursue other interests". In other words it might be an attempt at a graceful exit - just like from the martial arts group he headed up.

But, as was said, it all looks very bad and a good scrubbing is in order.

Steve
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Steve S. »

In fact, I recently took over the web hosting duties for my N-SSA shooting team (http://www.4thla.com) which was originally a .org, but the previous guy who was maintaining the web site had some mental issues and was no longer able to do it. His wife was unwilling to try and bother him with trying to get the domain account information as it would upset him. I tried to work with the web host but they would not help me without permission from the original "owner". Ultimately, we decided to set up a new domain (the .com) and let the credit card expire on the old domain and it would die from not getting paid.

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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by Greg Mele »

Saritor wrote: There are also non-technical reasons why it would continue to be owned by Brian Price, but I just wanted to point out that there's some potential technical gray areas with the information we have currently that could explain why everything is still as it currently is.
Saritor,

I agree, but would point out that in this case, the revival.us page domain and hosting uses the same folks that we do at Freelance, so I'm familiar with how this vendor works. It could take a little time to clear up, certainly, but not 18 months. And again, remember two things:

1. At the time that Brian was supposedly going to sell the business (last Feb when this issue exploded here), he actually renewed and updated the registration.

2. Brian Price, not me, is the one who asserts as of this fall that he is the silent partner of revival.us.

3. Revival.us has just added new products in the last few months modeled by Brian's kids.

So even allowing for some technical fiasco, the question I posed to Scott remains what people really care about, and can be easily answered. However, I appreciate the desire to keep everyone factually honest.

Greg
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Re: Chivalry Bookshelf-Author Resolution,or "Don't Buy My Bo

Post by jester »

I'll judge Murdock by the service he provides. If he is in the process of dis-entangling his business from its former owners then I won't make the process any harder. If he's continuing to do business with Brian Price then I'm pretty sure Murdock will end up bruised and rueful and will then stand up and make his business a success.
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