Making ACL or BOTN more affordable

[Felix]

Helm: You can DIY by getting a 12ga top from various places well known here on AA. Stainless or mild, your choice, buy sheet steel and build. Remember to buy one inch larger than normal for a historical liner. If you want to buy a helm I suggest three people. Icefalcon, Dave Demmers at Aseir or Max at Wild Armory. Just tell them what its for.
Starts at $25. Sheet sttel for rest of helm $56

Gorget: Ice Falcon or Stonekeep
Starts at: $35
C.O.P. : coat of plates by polar bear forge
Starts at $90
Arms and legs: splints arms and legs kit by Rough from the Hammer. Knee and elbow cops RFH or Stonekeep.
Starts at $125 for legs I am uncertain on the arms contact Cet and he can update you.
Spaulders: kit from RFH or Stonekeep.
Starts at$40 for shoulders $37 for knees and $30 for elbows
Case Greaves: Age of Craft or Mad Matt. You could make splinted greaves easy and cheap by buying splints from Gaston on AA or others. Splinted greaves start at $85. If you do splints you better do spring so it will cost more.

Gauntlets: Age of craft or you can fight buckler and weapon. Rudy Knight on facebook can make you a locking gauntlet. Starts at$340. Locking gauntlet $150.

Gambeson: DIY or choose your favorite vendor, they are all over the place. Starts at about $125 for the bar minimum.

Now any of this can done cheaper the more you make yourself. This list above will get you a correct 1350 kit that protect fairly well. Like any harness adjustments will need to be made, (add extra plates or remove, ect.)

REMEMBER THIS IS A STARTER KIT AND YOU WILL UPGRADE GEAR AS YOU GROW IN THE SPORT.

If you want it faster you can buy whole harness or pieces from Icefalcon or Aesir, Wild Armory or Age of Craft all know how to make correct armor for this sport. The first two are the fastest and deliver on time. The last two also make excellent products and are reputable however there is a delay in shipping from Europe.
So unless my math is wrong on the low end I cameup with $898.00. I did guess on the splinted arms kit at $100. Further, I did not account for rivets or leather, buckles or taxes. I also used the locking gauntlet and did not price out weapons. So even if you do a huge fudge on prices and say 100 for leather, 30 for rivets and 250 for a mace. That is a total of $1278.00 get on the field. Even if you upgraded many items you could still get on the field for under $2000.00. Still a lot of money but I bet many of you have more in your SCA harness. If you are handy in the shop or have a friend who can help you make stuff this price could drop greatly by purchasing $150 worth of 4130 steel make it all and then heat treat it but not everyone is that talented.

If you are able to save $200-300 a month then you get there pretty fast. Will you have to make choices and have self control, yep. Will it be hard, probably. We have people who make very little money on this team and they figure it out because this is what they want.

[Felix]

Hope this helps, I will try to answer questions as I am certain I was unclear on some things or missed them. I kind of hate doing this stuff on a tablet and phone.

[Ingvarr]

I think Cet is on hiatus unless that has changed.

[Felix]

Yeah, but not forever just until around the first of the year. You could alway go cut the parts out if you don't want to wait. That or offer another supplier, be positive and find a way.

[Koops]

Oh heck, I am a BoTN fan =) If some of the fighters are just looking for hardened armor and don't care much what it looks like, drop me a line. I get holes in the schedule every now and again and I am sure I could plug it up to help the team! Got to buy one of my T-Shirts tho!

[Craig Nadler]

Two of my patterns that may work well for someone buying a welded "backpoint" top from RFH is the visored sugarloaf or the regular sugarloaf. Compared to a great helm it will distribute the force of a blow much better. Be sure to buy the size welded top from RFH that you need and then resize the pattern to fit it. With a pre-welded top the visored sugarloaf can be built without welding if you use a steel cross. The cross hold the top of the visor together. The eye slots will need some verical reinforcements to stop a blade from going through.



http://nadler.us/sugar_loaf2.html

http://nadler.us/sugar_loaf.html

Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

[Duke Icefalcon]

Also keep in mind that if you buy less expensive armor, it does not last as long as gear made with higher quality materials. Getting in cheap is easy. Staying in cheap, is not. Plan on buying a new harness much more often than SCA, unless you have one made of good materials. Spending the money up front will save you a ton of money in the long run.

[Nissan Maxima]

Cry once.

[Kilkenny]

Cry once.

How many suits do you have now ?

[Nissan Maxima]

Cry once.

How many suits do you have now ?

Ha! Only two suits for ACL. And only five total. But I have a problem.

[Syrfinn]

When I was pricing, thats about what I came up with, Felix. Thanks for throwing this together, should help folks who are thinking about it.

We will see what docs say in January for me, which is why I put this on hold for myself. I have enough nagging injuries from SCA fighting over the years. Gonna finally get them checked out, see how serious some are, and go from there.

[Sean Powell]

I never looked at the hard-kit as the expensive part. I can use a lot of that in the SCA or have SCA gear at least that good. I was more concerned with the cost of gas or plane tickets to regional practices and the large finals plus the cost to fly to Paris plus equipment for camping or fly to Paris plus hotel stay... (That and the cost of my PT after being broken for fighting well above my capability)

Has anyone swaged the travel costs? I MIGHT look into a business trip before or after BOTN and then shift my plane tickets so I can watch part of it live.

[Steve S.]

I agree, a well-fitted suit of 14th century armour is not that expensive and there will not be much cost difference between an SCA version and a BOTN version, if any. About the only real difference is going to be I would want a much stouter helmet (12 ga) and I would want very, very good full gauntlets.

To me, the cost is in the trip itself. I bet you are looking at $2000 or so. About like any serious week-long vacation. Then, too, you will need the vacation time to go, and there is the very real risk of injury.

Steve

[Duke Icefalcon]

The other than armor costs are actually much more than $2000. Consider the practice requirements. You will need to travel to your local regional practice, divisional practices and also 2 National practices. You will have to pay for transportation when you get to France. You will have to pay extra to get your gear overseas.

I cannot stress enough that most SCA gear will NOT make the grade for what we are doing, unless you are wearing spring steel for the SCA. A heavier guage helm, 13 guage stainless or 12 guage mild is just the start. You will want spring or spring stainless in the heavy contact areas such as the cuisses. Your back will need more protection and your gear must be period in design and be within 50 years.


Just a straight forward heads up. If money is tight, this might not be for you. If you are stable, we would love to have you come and try out for the team.

[Steve S.]

The other than armor costs are actually much more than $2000. Consider the practice requirements. You will need to travel to your local regional practice, divisional practices and also 2 National practices. You will have to pay for transportation when you get to France. You will have to pay extra to get your gear overseas.

So what is your ballpark price tag for all of that?

Steve

[Murdock]

Some of the guys have our Gambesons and gorgets

They also bought me out of large helmets iirc.
I have Stainless mitten gaunt kits that i think would work for cheap. For BOTON i'd re wield them though.

Email/ pm me about the BOTON discount.
I can't fight in it right now, but i love what they do and i wanna help support it.

Eventually i'll get my kiln working and after i clear my back orders and get my boton stuff built...i'm gonna try and build spring stuff for those interested in BOTON.

[Matthew Richardson]

Great thread Scott!

I'm working with some of the guys down here in Tucson to get Wisby coats going. Who can't afford some spring SS plates and leather?? Really? Plus, you can work with HMB rules using rattan while you upgrade yer kits for steel.

M

[Duke Icefalcon]

I had long conversations with a few of my very respected friends and I will makea low cost kit to get folks started. My issue has always been looking out for folks and trying to give them the very best advise but I need to let folks make some decisions on their own. I will make a high quality kit that is very affordable to get foks started. They can get the high tech gear once they have decided to stick with it.

Ice

[Craig Nadler]

I just finished a coat of plates based on examples seen from 1350-1420. I think this sort of waisted COP has vasty better protection than the Wisby style COPs. The Wisby COPs were mostly the ones used by the losing side. They were crude and outdated even in 1361 when the battle of Wisby occurred.

This COP is much more fitted than a Wisby COP and covers the hips. I'm thinking that getting hit on an unarmoured hip with a steel poleaxe would really hurt a lot.

The pattern is sized for someone 5' 10" and 210 pounds. The outside layer is goat skin with a 16oz. hemp twill has the backing material. The plates are 0.035" / 20ga. / 0.9mm spring steel that have been blackened with linseed oil.

As time permits I was going to resize this patterns in a reange of sizes. I'm hoping that we could get a vendor to sell plates sets in 20ga. stainless steel or 22ga. stainless spring steel.






Patterns for this COP:
http://nadler.us/COP.html


Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

[Craig Nadler]

My COP project has been moved to http://nadler.us/COP.html .

My splinted legs project has been moved to http://nadler.us/splint_legs.html .

Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

[SyrTheo]

Totally awesome CoP Craig!!

Please check your PM's here.

Thx, EikBrandr

[Syrfinn]

Loved seeing that COP, when Lucan posted it on FB. Really awesome job with it.

Looking forward to seeing the kits you put up, Ice. Will take a look at them once they are up.

[Craig Nadler]

Please note that I do not make armour to sell. I may sell prototypes to fund my other armour projects, but I do not take commissions.

Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

[Gaston de Clermont]

The COP looks great, Craig, and I love the colors.

I have a new batch of spring stainless vambrace splints for sale over here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=158758 and I have greave splints almost ready to release. Those will be the best light weight protection for your dollar I reckon.

[Sir Guy]

Did you say greeve splints?

The COP looks great, Craig, and I love the colors.

I have a new batch of spring stainless vambrace splints for sale over here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=158758 and I have greave splints almost ready to release. Those will be the best light weight protection for your dollar I reckon.

[Gaston de Clermont]

We finally have a few sets of greave splints put together, and a price on the other thread I linked to.

[Duke Icefalcon]

We will be coming out with a 12 guage steel bascinet that will be available in the $500 range in the spring. Stay tuned....

[Craig Nadler]

I posted the pattern for the splinted legs shown below.

Project Page: http://nadler.us/splint_legs.html










Best Regards,

Craig Nadler (a.k.a. - Sinric)