The Armour Archive

Actually, Western Seas, in Hawaii, which is part of Caid, does that, as well.

Jared

Morgan wrote:I believe that's the Barony of the Far West, which is Japan, actually.

ironmongermisc wrote:Ironmongermisc.,


Not in Trimaris Milord, gift baskets ae given by groups to the Crown, and also the Crowns ask for gift basket to be given at Gulf Wars and Pennsic to other Crowns, AND monetary donations are asked of the populace to defray some Crown costs like going to Pennsic.

I heard of a Barony in Hiawaii where they rotate the Baroncy w one term being under a fighter and the other under the winner of art/sci,,

InsaneIrish wrote:

brewer wrote:

InsaneIrish wrote:You stand back and point and laugh and cast disparogies(sp?)

disparagies.

well, I wasn't going to say anything if nobody else did, but if you're going to correct something that's incorrect to begin with, make sure your correction is correct. There isn't really a recognized noun version of the word "disparage", therefore the correct version of the sentence is "you stand back and point and laugh and disparage our efforts...".

While I suppose you could make a gerund out of "disparage", "disparagies" sure isn't it.

Regards,

Jonathan Blackbow

What an interesting read.

Umm, could I draw everyone's attention to the 'PM' button at the bottom of each post? With this button, you can have a private slanging match rather than post tons of diatribe on the list, which everyone else must wade through. Just a thought.

Firstly: Credentials and explanation of viewpoint.
I am a member of the SCA in a remote area, I have recently resigned a seneschal's position due to interference from the anti-authenticity crowd (who may well be right about me).

Secondly: Points.

I agree with much of what Abaddon said five pages ago. I see several areas that the SCA could improve on, and I would be interested in coming up with methods of improvement culled from members of this list. Some of these have been mentioned before . . .

1) Combat (Hey, that's this forum!)
'SCA heavy' typifies lightly or non-armoured fighters in reality, it is pointless in making a post 1350 rig or anything with maille or the stick-flickers will own you. Is it possible to make up a system that allows armour worn to be included in the SCA that does not degrade SCA inclusivity or safety?
Now, I know everyone will say "But Duke Wonderful of Somewhere fights in maille!" but that's because he's a gun stick who can take the disadvantage that the plastic paladins can't deal with. I have no worries with a maille wearer putting plastic impact plates under his hauberk, but this is the medieval combats and weapons forum on the armour archive, we should be exploring methods of using realistical but safe medieval combat, weaons and armour!

2) Authenticity vs An Attempt
Is the ten foot rule enough? Do we enforce it? Should we try for a base level in accuracy, sub-LH but higher than we have, in garb, armour and weaponry, equal to the non-martial aspects of the society?
No one should be worried about scaring off people, when I wear my plate at demos (yes, recruitment drives is more accurate) it's my rig that people are interested in, and not SCA sports protection. The people coming to us for the martial aspects want to fight in a knight's rig, it's only after we've taught them the rules advantage that they opt for sports protection. What could we ask for? Should we request a period rig, even a way cheap period rig, and not a mish-mash of styles? How about weapon-shield combos that existed?

3) Ignorance is Bliss
Are we fostering, as has been said, a culture of reverse-elitism in historical ignorance? If you mention that a good beginner's rig would be a 12th century footman's rig of gambeson, simple helm and so on, you get laughed at by other fighters and the newbie told not to listen to you, this is indicative (here at least) of something wong, although it may well be me of course! Still, should we ever allow newbies to have the unhistorical recommended over the historical? If so, where do we draw the line?

Wow - not many on Durins side here- so I think I'll jump in Whereas many statements made ON BOTH SIDES have been overgeneralized and flame-like in nature, there are in fact truths to be had in both camps. Similar to Durin, I also approached my local SCA with an interrest and actual intent to join. What I found was discouraging and overall not what I wanted in a WMA group. There were a few things I did appreciate. I think it's a great thing that the Arts & Sciences exist to provide people that want to be a part of the group but dont want to fight. Though not everything that happens there can coincide with research, its a very valiant and positive attempt to include as many people as possible. I applaud that. However I was interested in joining because of the fighting not the knitting ...I might have done better with the knitting
Now with the negative- and as stated many times previously, this is the experience of one group over the course of several visits. Durin was bashed for making general accusations about the SCA as a whole- but for most people the local group IS their whole SCA experience. Not many people are going to travel to another barony to see if the grass is any greener. So I think he does have some right to make those statements because realistically he's not going to encounter others on a regular basis. The first thing that suprised me was that there was more plastic present than the Barbie aisle or some Hollywood celebrity convention or something. many have said that a main purpose of the SCA is to fullfill those fun fantasies of the life and fights of knights and the such. People dream about the ringing and clash of steel not the clicking and clacking of sticks and plastic. Butttttt, that allows the door to be open for more people to play for cheaper- not however what I had in mind. A smaller thing that really isnt a big deal but just kind of rubs me the wrong way is the whole persona thing. I'm fine with depicting a certain time period and culture- even building you kit to match a certain person in documented history- but this whole making up a clever name and background story ect , just smacks too much to me of RPG folks, who in my bigoted oppinion are responsible for a vast majority of misconceptions and myths we run into. I've studied too long and too hard to revert to that kinda thing. Not a big deal, just something I found too silly. The thing I had the hardest time with in the fighting was that I was extremley limited on what I could physically do. Both in fencing and heavy fighting I was frustrated that I could only use about a 1/4 of what I studied in period manuals. No grappling at all. Really frustrating, but ok- I guess with a big organization and lots of people that could be prone to flaring anger after being tossed aside with a hip throw. Though I really dont see how that could be any less of a threat than being whacked in the head with a 3 foot stick- but whatever. Not only no grappling, but no body contact at all- no hand siezes, elbow pushes, no hilt or pommel strikes. Very frustrating for me. Although it sounds like there may be some change in the way of halfswording, at the time I was looking into this I was told no that was not allowed. When I asked a marshal why it wasnt allowed he looked at me like I was an idiot (perhaps that was not his intent, but I've seen that look many times before when I try to inform people that katanas can not cut through concrete) and simply replied that "they would chop off their fingers". I blinked for a minute and walked off.
Also the whole fighting from the knees thing is, to me, rediculous. Any blow that would prevent you from using your legs, you are just not going to be able to recover from in a combat situation. Again- just silly. Watching the endless monotony of attempted head wraps and snap hits were to me an eyesore as well. Seeing lines of sword and shield fighters literally inches from eachothers noses trying to hit the back of eachothers heads was agonizing. I later had to learn from online sources that there were thrusting tips that could be used. I really dont think I saw a single one. During some fencing sparring I was yelled at by someone who must of had some sort of authority, in front of every body that I was "going to run someone through!" when I attacked with a quick lunge. Ironically I pulled my blow so it was much lighter that it could have been. Just because the attack is fast does not mean the hit is hard. The individual I was fencing quietly said it wasnt really a hard hit but the powers that was would have nothing to do with it. I know that's a bit of a defensive response because I was embarassed and upset but that was the experience.
Closing...ok so Durin may have been abrasive in his opinions, but since almost every responce to him has been negative as well, I thought I'd share my less than favorable experience with, not the SCA as a whole (dont want to tread those waters again) but the only group I'd be with if I had decided to join.
Everyone has a set of criteria in mind when they want to get into this stuff. Either its a social group with some fun play fighting on the side, or its fantasy play with boffer weapons and elf ears, or its word for word study and application from 15th century texts. Each group has an emphasis in an area and some fringe area on the other aspects. For me, I wanted more historical accuracy and period study than what the SCA offered. So I went elsewhere.

EDIT: I would also like to state that most of these reasons for dis-liking the SCA are the same reasons I stopped competing in sport fencing. Once I found out what 'real' fencing and swordplay was- I realized what I was doing had very little to do with what actually was done.

there have been many valid points made that i see. but i also see that some people are expecting too much emphasis on a single thing, accuracy. this is not to say that there isnt a need for it, as there is a very big need for it, more so than exists in the sca. but one must remember that a balance is needed. it is also a social gathering, and a place to display creativity why learning and studying the past.
i fight, that is my main focus, my other is to offer my skills as an emt to those who are injured. i want to learn many things, but time is a hinderance. i fight in plastic armor, and cant wait for the semester to be over so that i can put together a new kit that is metal, and looks nice, and is more correct, but also that i can make. and as time goes on, i will become more skilled and able to get myself into a more correct set of armor.
basicly, all i am trying to say is that an open view is needed, and to help out. at an event, i would love to sit down with someone who knows a great deal about a specific piece of armor, or anything, and learn it. and i seak that out. so i feel like some of the things you have said are unfair, as there are likely many other people in the SCA who are like me.