The Armour Archive

I got my hands on a copy of Medieval Swordsmanship by John Clements for free. My question is, did I pay to much?

Clements seems to have a real problem with the SCA, although he doesn't name the name in the book. While I agree that some of the stuff is stupid, I just don't know if it really NEEDS to be in this book. That makes me then wonder if he put in the stuff that DOES need to be there.

I'd appreciate any input. Also, if I DID pay to much, what books would you suggest?

I'm just trying to get starting in HWMA and stuck where no one else is

Bran

I agree, John should have left off any mention of SCA combat in a book dedicated to actual medieval swordsmanship. It undermines his credibility, just like Brian Price does by taking a legitimate idea - a book based on 14th C. armour - and diluting it with SCA armouring rules and photos of obviously inappropriate kit and styles thereby turning it into an extremely expensive version of "The Hammer". Neither book is worth more than $12.95 (the cost of an Osprey) by these inclusions. But that 800 lb. gorilla lurks in the corner...
John's book is useful for a beginner to gain familiarity with the terms and positions used in WMA, as well as a good introduction on the basics. After about your 3rd practice it will probably be relegated to reference as you move on to Fiore or Talhoffer. His classes are far more useful, and Bob Charron's Fiore classes are excellent if you are into that narrow of a time/style (I am).
Read it, try it, and then move on is my advice, and ignore the sports-combat comments included only due to John's frustration with dealing with "experts" from the SCA who already know everything there is to know from a practice session with the local "famous duke".

That book will give you a lot of poor advice and has a lot of misunderstanding of the historical material. If you want to start on HWMA, read the free manuals posted online (preferrably the ones with translation, but even if there isn't it's excellent reference). www.aemma.org and www.thehaca.com have a number of manuals available freely for personal research.
Right now there isn't a really good publication out there for beginners, excepting rapier. Working with the source material on your own with friends & getting some personal instruction from someone who knows their stuff is what you really need. Chiv Bookshelf's books are pretty darn good http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com/ and I like the Codex Wallerstein a lot. YMMV

I think it's a great starter. Now, I use it to show the absolutely new to help describe what we do (study Wester Martial Arts, try to be a competent at handling a sword...). Just flip open the pages and show the illustrations. Often you can see the understanding cross their face. Then open a fightbook such as Codex W mentioned above. See the descriptions, see the pictures, see the date--this is the source for a book like Med Sword, and is the source for what we are practicing. See further understanding cross there faces. Then show the doing part. So, in that context, I'd recommend.

I would honestly say that in my opinion "Medieval Swordsmanship" is still the best book out there for a beginner seeking to learn the basics of historically-accurate medieval swordsmanship. There are other great books on the market now but many of them require a bit of fore-knowledge of the subject matter to be fully useful to the novice (in my experience teaching novices anyways). The illustrations are perhaps what makes it so much easier to use compared to other works. That said, I also think that every aspiring Swordsman should get his hands on as many sources as possible and see for himself just what is available.

Getting the basics from free sources like the AEMMA web site and then spending money on manuals from the Chivalry Bookshelf.

Bran Mac Scandlan wrote:I got my hands on a copy of Medieval Swordsmanship by John Clements for free. My question is, did I pay to much?

Bran

Like other scholars on this thread I also consider Clements book to be the best on the market for a complete beginner. You did not pay too much. In regard to the issues discussed in the book by Clements just keep in mind that the book was <u>published in 1998</u>, which means it was written in 1997 and researched in 1996. In 1996 those were real and significant issues. Clements discussed the issued in his book because very few other people were addressing the issues. Today most everybody knows that SCA fighting is not the same as historical swordsmenship, it was much much less so in 1996.

If you are feeling stuck as you start out in HWMA I would suggest that you take a look at the <a href="http://www.thearma.org/wheretostart.htm" >Where to Start</a> page on the <a href="http://www.thearma.org" >ARMA</a> site. Better yet, take a training with John Clements, your view of HWMA will never be the same again.

Ran Pleasant
ARMA DFW