Kingdom stereotypes?

[dukelogan]

the worst part is that the kidneys are in such little danger in sca sport combat that requiring anything at all makes little sense. but your rules in meridies probably should be made more clear.

regards
logan

[broinnfinn]

You don't allow cleats at all, or do they just have to be covered? I'm about to move to Atlanta and am trying to get my armour up to Meridian spec before I go.

-Loegaire, who was told he had to put foam in his breastplate as well

Not allowed at all.

Bri.

[broinnfinn]

Your wearing an Icefalcon cherburg and you were told it's got to be padded? Why? By who? P;ease tell me your kidding!

That was a misunderstanding by a particular marshal, and has been corrected.

I got caught in the same misunderstanding and had to put foam in my lamellar.

I brought it to the MiC's attention, and it was corrected in later inspections.

Sorry some folks had this problem.

Broinnfinn

[Loegaire mac Gilray]

*EDIT*

Bri posted at the same time I did - damn uppity princess!

Seriously though, thanks for the info.

*END EDIT*

I think you might be missing the point Gaston is trying to make...because I'm a geek I'll make it as simple as I can.

Stainless Plate > Leather + Padding. Because of this, padding isn't needed (I only wear UnderArmor and a tabard under my plate).

Gaston knows my rig pretty well; he helped me build it, and swings a stick at 2-3 times a week. It's held up waaaay beyond what most people's suits do and it's been beat on by some of the hardest-hitting people around, as well as taken abuse in insane chunks (eg if you were at Fool's War, I was the guy in stainless who fought as Ajax for Trimaris)

As a side note, I didn't mean to hijack the thread with gripes about the Meridian armour standards, I just don't want to show up in Southowns and be told I can't play because of something I didn't know about.

OK, this is a grammar problem. the phrase "a minimum of....or equivalent padding" means that you must wear something that is at least as protective as heavy leather over 1/4" padding. Heavy leather alone is less protective and therefore does not meet the rule. Metal plate alone is more protective and thus is legal. Someone seems to have interpreted the sentance as two independent assertions:You must have a minimum of heavy leather AND you must have a minimum of 1/4" of foam.

I'm not trying to be a pain. Really I'm not. So please don't take anything I'm about to say as such. I, like you, don't like the way it reads either and feel that it is something that needs to be clarified in writing.

The way that it reads to me, is that you must have 1/4 inch leather AND 1/4 inch padding.

the way it reads, (and I quoted that right out of thae handbook)

"The kidney area, the short ribs, and lower spine shall be covered by a minimum of heavy leather worn over 1/4 inch (6mm) closed cell foam or equivilent padding"

Pretty plainly states that you must have equivilent padding. If you want to get really assinine (my OPINION) about it, you could read it to mean that you MUST have heavy leather, AND you must have 1/4 inch padding, and anything you wanted to wear like a BP would be supplimental to that as your own choice. Not terribly damned realistic....

If we were to change it only slightly...

"The kidney area, the short ribs, and lower spine shall be covered by a minimum of heavy leather worn over 1/4 inch (6mm) closed cell foam padding or equivilent." (moved the word padding to before words or equiv)

It makes things much better all around (again, my opinion). We all know that steel is greater protection than leather (otherwise we'd wear leather helmets) and that 16 or even 18 gauge steel over a gambeson by far surpasses the protection that you would get from leather and padding. None of that is my point exactly tho.

The document reads poorly in accordance with what I suspect intent to be in that regard. Way back in the dawn of the SCA timeline, the marshals handbook was no doubt written to keep us reasonably safe from injury while combating. That is far and away a secondary purpose now. It has evolved into a document designed to keep the SCA safe from lawsuits. I'm not anti-lawyer, but the bad ones who want to get rich at someone elses expense would be more than happy to quibble the difference in placement of a single word, especialy if it means a fat check is in the mail.

Anyone know an e-mail for the SCA Marshalate? This could possibly be something that needs attention.

[Loegaire mac Gilray]

Ah damn, I was worried you'd say that. Given that I wear sabatons (admittedly only to cover my shoes), is there anything acceptable that 1) provides good traction and 2) is light weight? If not, what are most people using?

You don't allow cleats at all, or do they just have to be covered? I'm about to move to Atlanta and am trying to get my armour up to Meridian spec before I go.

-Loegaire, who was told he had to put foam in his breastplate as well

Not allowed at all.

Bri.

[broinnfinn]

Anyone know an e-mail for the SCA Marshalate? This could possibly be something that needs attention.

The Gulf Wars problems resulted mainly from a misinterpretation by one of the Inspection Marshals (I wear lamellar, and got caught in it, too). I am sorry so many people had problems.

I was at an event with Earl Robert (the SEM) this past weekend, and the vagueness of the wording was brought to his intention, and he believed as well that it was incorrectly interpreted at GW. They are currently looking at the wording of the Society armor standards, and will be trying to make them easier to understand in the next edition.

Broinnfinn

[Kith the Silent]

Anyone know an e-mail for the SCA Marshalate? This could possibly be something that needs attention.

marshal@sca.org

[Endymion]

Ah damn, I was worried you'd say that. Given that I wear sabatons (admittedly only to cover my shoes), is there anything acceptable that 1) provides good traction and 2) is light weight? If not, what are most people using?

I can answer that last question, at least. I just got back from the South Downs fighter practice

Most people wear leather boots of some description. That ranges across combat boots, engineers boots to more period-seeming ones. A couple people wear those brown over-the-ankle boots that I think would fall more into the hiking-boot category. Whatever the flavour, its pretty much boots all round.

I can't recall what the people who wear sabatons have under them, unfortunately, so I can't really help you there. I can recall a couple of people who wear them, but I was never really paying that much attention to their feet.

I wear a CoP without any blue foam attached to it. During the winter I did have some padding, but now that its getting warm again I decided against it. I know several people with lamellar or CoP that don't use padding under it, so I don't see why you would need to pad your breastplate all.

It might be best if you just dropped our Marshall a line and asked him about it directly. I suspect that might be the quickest route to sure answers. ( www.south-downs.org )

[Jehan de Pelham]

Turnshoes go under sabaton. Modern shoes are too bulky for sabaton to look correct, in my opinion.

If you require greater traction, because your turnshoes are slick and your need for safety is greater than your desire to find a turnshoe that isn't slick, go and have a shoemaker sew a vibram sole to the bottom of the turnshoe.

This advice was given me by Sir Nigel MacFarlane, Knight of Ealdormere, this weekend.

Jehan de Pelham, squire of Sir Vitus