The Armour Archive

As my kit is nearing completion (some really good people will breath a sigh of relief when it's done) there is another question I feel I have to ask, as it has come up for both me and some other new fighters i am helping:

What would you consider to be good gauntlets for a SCA new fighter, and especially to me, both from a combined standpoint of learning curve, protection and authenticity. Which one, and why would you suggest?

For the record, my portrayal is late 14th century German, so for the sake of simplicity please assume that the cuff would be an hourglass cuff in each case.

a) half gauntlets, with a cup or basket hilt
b) padded mitten gauntlets
c) bridging mitten gauntlets
d) bridging finger gauntlets
e)non bridging finger gauntlets with a cup or basket hilt

Thank you

Sebastian
Gabriel von Hoheneck

Well, here's one fighter's take on it.

Half gauntlets with a basket hilt would be what the majority of folks use. It is a fairly inexpensive and very protective way to go. If your goal is to look period, this won't really work for you. If you just want protection, this is probably the way for a beginner to go. When new, the price of good gauntlets (either in money or time) can be prohibitive. Also, the weight of the basket hilt keeps the balance close to the hand of the user. This makes the sword more manageable than with regular stick balance (in the middle).


Padded mitten gauntlets are going to be a little bulky and not as maneuverable as I would want for new folks who don't really know what they want to do in armor, yet.

Bridging mitten gauntlets are a really good choice if the new folks will be using long weapons. I started with a set of these (leather articulation) and they worked great. Still use a set in the same pattern. Thinking of replacing with hard articulation, as I am spending more time with a great sword. Light padding will help with the confidence that a hard shot still won't disable my hands.

Bridging finger gauntlets look great, work well if made to fit the person (I've seen one set that really worked great, but it has to be fit to the user), and are going to be more awkward than any of the other designs if the fit is not perfect. All that steel between the fingers seems like it will get in the way. Also, some marshals seem to just bounce finger gauntlets as a rule. Whether or not they meet SCA spec.

Non-bridging finger gauntlets with a basket hilt have no advantage over the demi-gauntlet, except looks. They do look good. Thing is, the new guy should not put too much grief into looking good until he has been fighting for long enough to know how armor works on his body. I advocate fairly generic (not ugly, but not fancy) armor for new folks until they have been fighting for a year or so. Let them figure out what works and what doesn't. It matters.

My suggestion is to use demis and a basket, but make or buy some simple gauntlets for when they pick up the big weapons. Since the simple gaunts are just for backup, the first set can be something as ugly as this:
http://www.cs.usu.edu/~watson/bartholom ... r.htm#sec9

For what it is worth.

-Patrick

I haven't spent much time or money on these yet, and they look dynamite so far.
[img]http://www.vr2.cc/armour/media/pics/gaunt1.JPG[/img]
Maybe these pics can spark ideas for you?
[img]http://www.vr2.cc/armour/media/pics/gaunt4.JPG[/img]

Gabriel,

For great weapons I would go for bridging mittens, although they do not perfectly fit your persona. They are not as expensive as they used to be, since Sir Andrew Ward (a true hero) mixed up the market. I have good pairs that I bought for 50, 60 and 70 USD respectively.

I used to use basket hilts but now I use gauntlets with a sword or (better) tourney club. Fact is for most of our period they would have worn nothing like it, but I like my fingers.

One argument for a basket hilted sword is that it lets you hold the sword in something like a medieval way...

Cheers

Patrick wrote:Thing is, the new guy should not put too much grief into looking good until he has been fighting for long enough to know how armor works on his body.Patrick

I disagree with this. I think you should purchase the best and most authentic armour you can afford for your personna upfront. Saves you alot of time and money in the long run.

I have mixed feelings. I myself have sucumbed to the problem of "making best the enemy of good" and find myself chasing "great" armour when I should just do what I did when I first joined the SCA and get something together and get on the field. Waiting to acquire the perfect kit can mean you'll be waiting a while.

There's also the problem of buying a lot of great armour and then finding out you don't like it for some reason (fit, style, whatever).

I recommend demi-gauntlets for use with basket hilts, and full mittens for un-basketed work.

I think demi-gauntlets with scaled fingers are way-cool, but I would only use them with baskets - the fingers are just for show.

Steve

Sir Andrew Ward's Mondo Style Gauntlets.
www.Calontirtrim.com sells them on commission. They are a simple 2 lame mitten style with a solid cuff attached by a leather hinge. They are cheap, strong, effective, and safe. I have had a pair for about 5 years. I looked for some pictures, but was unable to locate any. Maybe someone else has one you can see.

Yeah, what Steve said. A basic kit will get you out there and fighting. I have gone through a couple of kits so far because with my first, I was not sure what I wanted. Only by fighting in it was I able to decide what aspects were great and what were lousy.

The price of gauntlets is roughly equivalent to the price of a helm, if you are buying both. (I'm basing that on the cheapest and most expensive of each that I have seen, so don't try to compare Andy Ward's gaunts to one of WMA's helms and tell me I'm off base. Look at the basic helms from Ashcraft Baker and Truehearth and compare those prices to the cheapest gauntlets that will get you out there safely.) Would you buy a helm if you were not pretty sure you would be happy with it for a while? On the other hand, if you can be sure that a cheaper set of hand protection will work until you know for sure what you want, I think you should go for that.

Although I'm really not a fan of plastic, Alchemy Armoury sells a set of gauntlets that seem to be well loved by everyone who has talked about them here. Andy Ward has a pattern for munition gauntlets that work well and are generally liked by folks here. It isn't hard to get a decent set of hand protection for not much more than a new set of hockey gloves, but in either case, do you want to spend the money for something before you are certain you will still want to use it in a year?

My advice to new fighters is to make a very basic kit and get out of the loaner gear. I spent a full year making my first armor and there was no loaner gear in the barony at the time. Now, I have a full suit for myself and a suit of loaner I carry to practice to make sure that new guys can always armor up. I don't want the new folks to go through all the work or expense of getting a set of armor together and then find that they want something else now that they have a few more months of experience. For hands, do something basic and protective. Don't look terrible, but don't waste too much time on esthetics until you know it is exactly what you want.

-Patrick

I have to disagree with the previous note... my helmet was $375 and my gauntlets were $113 with shipping. I use Bokalo's Moric style gauntlets (www.bokalosarmoury.com) for anything requiring two hands on one weapon, because they are a) aluminum and b) have a rigid thumb. I like my fingers, too.

Regards,

Jonathan Blackbow

I would personally recommend mitten gauntlets. Fingered gauntlets, the fine example given notwithstanding, do tend to be more expensive. In the long run, I contend that half gauntlets and basket hilts cost more: if you put 20 USD into half gaunts and 40 USD in to a basket for a sword and the same for your shield, you are even with the cost of munitions grade steel mittens, which don't require any equipment you can't make for little or no cost. As soon as you decide to take up two weapon or just have a spare sword that third basket hilt will put you in the red. If you decide to use axes or maces you can either have a truly silly looking weapon or go for full gauntlets. If you desire to take up great weapons, which I heartily recommend, you've no choice. If you want properly balanced swords with your full gauntlets, Roderick will be more than happy to sell you some tres cool pommel weights, or you can make your own using pipe end caps and the like.
I note that you're in Germany. Eorl Giles is at Pennsic now, but if you look him up at an event or on the Drachenwald list in a couple of weeks, he can get you a set of good gauntlets at a reasonable price. For that matter, feel free to look me up at Cookie Wars and look over my set. They'll at least give you an idea what they're like.

Alasdair, in the sugarloaf

Thanks everybody so far. This is quite interesting, please keep the opinions coming.

Alasdair,

I have Giles on the lookaout for a good deal at Pennsic in any case

It is really not that much a matter of being able to get the stuff, it is deciding which compromises to make for our game. And I sometimes have a hard time reaching a decision and just running with it. And matter of fact I already own a pair of Sir Rodericks pommel and quilions.

In Service

Gabriel

Anshelm Arms makes some really nice looking 14th cent hourglass mitten gaunlets that look like fingered gaunts. Havn't tried them, but they look sweet and very protective. They are stainless, and about $600. Expensive, but well worth it I think.I believe I'll try and get a pair when the funds are available. I want spring steel fingered for authenticity, but I'd be afraid to use them without a basket hilt. I hate the way baskets look, but if I was more concerned with top perfomance,I think half gauntlets with basket hilt give the best blade (stick) control.....Otto

Sebastian,

here's my 2c if it is of any worth. So far, the following has been handled in my little corner of the woods:

stainless sheet basket
steel bar basket
rubber basket
leather half gauntlets
stainless half gauntlets
egg kydex mitten gauntlets
stainless mitten gauntlets (the pair you sold me)

I'm currently fighting with a rubber basket and a stainless half gauntlet for sword and shield. The stainless gauntlets are used for polearm and such. My key experiences:

I have never worried about my fingers so far with a basket. The rubber ones are just easier in day-to-day maintenance (at least so far). Unless you find a really, really well-fitting gauntlet I'd go with the basket combo.

Pheylinn's gauntlets are great for polearm. They get bashed a lot and again I don't fear for my fingers. With a single-handed weapon (mace in my case) I find them too heavy.

I don't like the kydex gaunts that much. Lestard fights with them pw and gw and I'm scared as sh#t if I hit him there. However, it might be worth a try to use one of those with the mace ...


Hope this helps ...

Will

I fight SCA heavy combat in a set of padded finger guants. I love them and have had no problems with them. I have broken my hand using hockey gloves and feel much safer in my finger gauntlets. I do feel that I am fighting a crusade when confronted by a marshal who wants to automaticly bounce them. I have had them inspected by the Society Marshall and he deems them safe. The secret is in the pading. Mouse pads rule!
Alexander

MoL Eckhart and his lady both fight with curboli finger gauntlets lined with felt. They use these or single handed weapons w/o baskets, and for great weapons. They fight in the Northern region of the East. They both swear by them.

First, Thomas, please actually read what I said about the equivalent prices of helmets and gauntlets. I did not say that the cheaper gauntlets cost as much as the better helmets. Here is what I a actually said:

I'm basing that on the cheapest and most expensive of each that I have seen, so don't try to compare Andy Ward's gaunts to one of WMA's helms and tell me I'm off base. Look at the basic helms from Ashcraft Baker and Truehearth and compare those prices to the cheapest gauntlets that will get you out there safely.

You can spend just as much on nice gauntlets as on a nice helm, or as little on munition gauntlets as on a munition helm, but cheap gauntlets are not really much cheaper than a cheap helm.

Does anyone have pictures of a set of cur boli finger gauntlets? I would so love to see them, even if I never make a set.

Oh, and as a reminder for new folks, Ashcraft Baker sells basket hilts and shield baskets for $10 a pop. Kelly Ashcraft was great to deal with the one time I bought baskets from him. I did spend half an hour with a file knocking off the little weld splatters from the baskets, but for ten bucks they were a real bargain.

-Patrick

Ah, guantlets vs. half-guantlets, the eternal debate.

The group I play with has pretty much given up on half-guants. They are just too limiting. You can play sword and shield, and that is about it. Too many of our games involve grappling, or a need to be able to switch weapons quickly. How many times have you been to a tourney where someone has to stop the show to borrow a gaunt? Most of us have decided that they are more trouble than they are worth.

Now, if you have decided to go for a full gauntlet, the best deal is Ashcraft Baker. For $80 you get a set of strapped mitten guantlets, with a well-dished thumb. There are better quality guantlets out there, but they start at double the price. For a nice bonus, he will have the things delivered to you on time to boot. Kelly's good people.