The Armour Archive

I'm looking for some good rebated sparring swords.
I want one that looks decent, doesn't have to be fancy, just looks okay. I want one that has a good weight (so no starfires), and it should be a reasonable price.

I've been looking at the Valentine Armoury practice swords- has anyone tried those? Can anyone reccomend any others that are good? Canadian makers/sources would be nice if possible. If not Canadian, then somebody who does international shipping and preferably will accept paypal- I have no credit card

I have used the Valentine Armoury practice swords and they are light but well balanced. If you can wait Lutels are a bit heavy but are well tempered steel instead of aluminum. They are also balanced well and many come with a sheath so you can wear it too.

Amanita wrote:I'm looking for some good rebated sparring swords.

A lot of people around here have been using Paul Chen's Practical Knight:

http://www.swordsdirect.com/knight_swords.html

They seem to be holding up well and are pretty well-balanced.

-Juliana

Art Elwel at "A work of art" is a distributor of Lutels in the North American market and has many in stock. They are not listed on his site but he will email a sheet of what he has available. Great guy to deal with as well. I have a Lutel 15019 and think that it is an excellent practice sword that stands up very well. The fact that a decent scabbard and belt is included in the price is a nice little extra.
Also, Albion is coming out with a line of steel practice swords called the "Squire line" and they are at about the $350 level.
I have heard that there is quite a wait at present on the Chen practicals. I have not been terribly impressed with there overall quality, but I know that others have been. Some people like a hideously gigantic pommel with a lion rampant on it and having to repeen....
Angus Trim is working on putting out some blunts as well.

An excellent source of aluminum trainers (who is also Canadian) is Charles Jevons. His website is http://www.swordcrafts.com/. He is a member of AEMMA and has worked closely with the members there to tweak out a very good design with a nice balance and weight. I own one of his arming swords as do two others in my group and we could not be happier with the quality and durability of these.

I hope this helps you out.

Albion Armourers new Squire Line is rolling out as we speak and they are excellent swords at pretty decent prices. They are rebated swords. I own one of their "Next Generation" sharps, and it is an amazing piece of work.

http://www.albion-swords.com

Strongbow

Strongbow, are they rebated with the pennie wide edge as most steel groups require or are they just not sharp like a Del Tin?

I will give a warning on the Paul Chen swords, the pommels are mostly hollow and they are glued on, I know many people who have had them come apart, Wolf being the last at the battle of Hastings MD this year.

James B. wrote:Strongbow, are they rebated with the pennie wide edge as most steel groups require or are they just not sharp like a Del Tin?

I will give a warning on the Paul Chen swords, the pommels are mostly hollow and they are glued on, I know many people who have had them come apart, Wolf being the last at the battle of Hastings MD this year.

They are given a specifically rebated edge and are intended for re-enactment/WMA training. HOWEVER, the points are not rounded. If a specific club requires that, it would need to be done. I think Albion would do it on request.

Strongbow

http://heimrick.netfirms.com

My group uses swords made by this guy. His swords are also used by the AEMMA people. I highly recommend his swords.

Thanks for the heads up StrongBow, I do so love Albions new swords.

I've seen heimrick's stuff before- I came very close to placing an order with him, but other expenses came up.

I also really like the swordcraft stuff- the guy currently does only two models, but he's planning to do more and even mentions that he's open to custom work. I should inquire about a katana, perhaps. It might come out nicer than the one Valentine sells.

I saw the nice gladius that Albion makes, and I forwarded the link to an online buddy looking for one. But $250 usd for one aluminum sword strikes me as a little on the steep side.

Does anyone have a good link for the lutels? I'd like to see what they offer

Amanita,
Here is the website of Lutel. http://www.lutel.cz/index2e.htm
Here is the website of Art Elwel who distributes them this side of the pond. They are not listed on his site but he will send out a list of what he has to you if you ask. http://www.a-work-of-art.net/swords.htm#Viking%20Swords

"I have heard that there is quite a wait at present on the Chen practicals."

Paul Chen got a bit behind in production earlier this year due to heavy demand, but they're catching up now. I have practical arming swords, backswords, and broadswords on hand. Ran out of vikings last week, more are on the way. Practical series longswords have been tough to get, I send 'em out so fast I haven't been able to keep any for myself - but again more are on their way within the next month or so. The only currently problematic practical sword is the mortuary, I sold a bunch at Pennsic and afterwards and am not sure when more are arriving.

"Some people like a hideously gigantic pommel with a lion rampant on it and having to repeen...."

The newest practical longswords don't have the giant lion pommels (pics are on my site - current practical longsword is the Gen 3 version, but I don't have the gen 2 longsword pics up for comparison as I do the arming and viking - I accidentally overwrote the older pictures, need to dig them out of cd-rom backups). Having to re-peen - yup, I've found that the practical arming, viking, and longswords need to be tightened up once after they're used a bit, and then they're fine. It still beats the hell out of having to tighten a screw-on pommel after every flurry of blows ...

"I will give a warning on the Paul Chen swords, the pommels are mostly hollow and they are glued on"

The pommels are peened on to a thick tang, not glued. They're partially hollow because otherwise the sword would handle poorly - the blades are relatively light so that the swords have a more realistic weight to them and using them isn't like fighting with an unbalanced crowbar.

Therion wrote:"I will give a warning on the Paul Chen swords, the pommels are mostly hollow and they are glued on"

The pommels are peened on to a thick tang, not glued. They're partially hollow because otherwise the sword would handle poorly - the blades are relatively light so that the swords have a more realistic weight to them and using them isn't like fighting with an unbalanced crowbar.

Seen several practical vikings come apart and have read about may more. While the pommels are peened on they also have glue and they do fall apart. The hollow is far too large and is a problem IMHO. Also for anyone doing living history the nickle plating on the crossguard and pommel are a problem.

Which generation? The Gen 3's with the thicker tangs have only been available within last two months.

Amanita wrote:I've seen heimrick's stuff before- I came very close to placing an order with him, but other expenses came up.

I also really like the swordcraft stuff- the guy currently does only two models, but he's planning to do more and even mentions that he's open to custom work. I should inquire about a katana, perhaps. It might come out nicer than the one Valentine sells.

I saw the nice gladius that Albion makes, and I forwarded the link to an online buddy looking for one. But $250 usd for one aluminum sword strikes me as a little on the steep side.

Does anyone have a good link for the lutels? I'd like to see what they offer

JP Heimrick makes a specific blade pattern for AEMMA, the Type IV longsword. Most of his other products are quite heavy for the stage and re-enactor market where edge/edge blocking of heavy blows is the rule. We don't do that. JP makes tough stuff no matter what pattern specs you choose.

I have to ask what specifically do you plan to use your purchase for? Paired drills? Armoured assault/bouting? Photos with tourists? (Just joking.... ) Its hard to compare good aluminum wasters with cheap or good steel blunts. They aren't necessarily for the same purpose. Unarmoured bouting is relatively safe with aluminum wasters. I can't imagine bouting with a Del Tin repro. They are not blunt, they are "unsharpened". If I were looking for a blunt trainer suitable for WMA unarmoured training, Gus Trim's latest product is just the thing. Maybe the Squire line is suitable as well, but I can't comment having never seen one. Certainly the Next Gens aren't, with an edge profile under 1mm. I doubt they were intended to be. So what is it you want to do?

On the topic of tempered aluminum products, our friend and student Charles Jevons makes excellent arming sword and Italian longsword trainers. He delivered two prototype German longsword trainers to Mike Rasmussen's class today for group evaluation. They should be in production soon.

Cheers,

Kel Rekuta
AEMMA

I have several Lutels, which I have used for wear and staged combat. To be specific, I have daggers 10001, 10037, swords 13004, 14006, 15012, and halberd 20015.

I guess that makes me a collector?

The Katzbalger 13004 is a bit of a tip-heavy wrist breaker, the shorter bladed katzbalgers handle a bit better. The pommel nut in the katzbalger and the pommel itself in the hand and a half tend to rattle loose fairly quickly with blade on blade contact. I haven't tried any Lock-Tite or the like, but it would probably do the trick. The hand and a half is a real joy to handle.

All Lutels, save for the beidenhander and pole-arm, have very nice scabbards, and in some cases, hangers, included for the purchase price.

The daggers are far too dangerous for anything but show, but they make good demonstration pieces, and look damn handsome on the belt. The rapier's blade is much wider than it looks on on their page. It is a very early rapier, with a stiff and beefy blade.

The swordcraft swords (I have two longswords, and two I.33 swords which arrived just this past Friday..) are a real pleasure to work with. They are solidly made, and have a very nice weight and feel to them...perhaps a tad on the light side, but certainly within the range of documented examples. We've used them for near-full contact sparring, and are trying to find the right measure of armor to make it (relatively) safe, and stay within the blossfechten styles and spirit of German swordplay.

Therion wrote:Which generation? The Gen 3's with the thicker tangs have only been available within last two months.

Not gen 3s is all I can say for sure.

What am I gonna use my sword for? Mainly unarmoured sparring, as my friend and I don't have much in the way of armour..Hoping to change that eventually.
Where can I see a pic of the Paul Chen generation 3 longsword?
This sounds like a nice one:)

James B. wrote:

Therion wrote:Which generation? The Gen 3's with the thicker tangs have only been available within last two months.

Not gen 3s is all I can say for sure.

i think it was a first gen. due to i've had it for 3-5 years now, cant remember when i bought it to be honest. yup there is glue on the inside of the pommel, and it wasnt penned hardly at all. it was loose in my second battle so i bought a paul binns, the chen broke before its 3rd battle and i had to have atli penn the pommel on for me

Amanita
Where can I see a pic of the Paul Chen generation 3 longsword?

The ones pictured on my site are Third generation

Wolf
"i think it was a first gen. due to i've had it for 3-5 years now, cant remember when i bought it to be honest. yup there is glue on the inside of the pommel, and it wasnt penned hardly at all."

Yup, first generation. They sucked. I don't have any pictures for comparison, I didn't carry the Paul Chen swords until they got better (second generation).

http://www.baltimoreknife.com/

you can try here if you like .. i can speak for his blades .. have any questions please ask ..

Kaliban wrote:http://www.baltimoreknife.com/

you can try here if you like .. i can speak for his blades .. have any questions please ask ..

Stagmer's stuff is good, but it is definitely a bit on the heavy side, and geared for the staged combatant. For that purpose they are excellent, and very sturdy.

umm no offense there Kaliban, but all of the BK swords i've seen on teh field have been welded 2-3 times over. granted their owners have had them forever and they've seen countless battles, but a blade that brakes its tang over and over again isnt a good blade

He has put out another single hand that is a bit lighter than his original blades ... as for the breakage I do not take offense I have seen other sword makers blades who do the same thing but at least he is willing to work with a person .. Are you in Erics 15th cent group ?

But hey shop around see what you can find thats all i can say ..

Kaliban wrote:He has put out another single hand that is a bit lighter than his original blades ... as for the breakage I do not take offense I have seen other sword makers blades who do the same thing but at least he is willing to work with a person .. Are you in Erics 15th cent group ?

But hey shop around see what you can find thats all i can say ..

eric? littlewood? hehehe nope i'm not in the men of warwick. i'm in lord greys retinue. we're pretty much the same. always do events together and hang out.

thats cool .. went to MTA for the first time this year an had a blast .. maybe i will see u at an event sometime ..

i encourage anyone intrested in combat ready play toys to check our stuff out for your own self. the guys u speak of that have broken swords from us have had them for 10+ years and they have seen everyday use for those 10+ years. if you think our stuff was too heavy or plain in the past i strongly recomend that u take a closer look at our line... many of you havent seen our blades in 5 years or so. our stuff has changed but the constuction has remained the same. also !!! big plus !! if it breaks we will garentee a replacement [if we cant fix it] !



matt

there are 2 major reasons you would see rewelded blades around markland

#1 they are blades purchased by Eric Littlewood 15+ years ago when we were trying all different materials and hardness. Eric has always been my favorite test subject!

#2 I have offered 'used' blades to marklanders cheap for many years. These are blades all but destroyed by long term customers that i have replaced and sold the rewelds for bashers at very cheap prices.

since changing all my tangs to over 1" wide 10+ years ago this has become a non-issue. also since all blades are cnc cut they are radiused tangs at the shoulders. now returns are less then 1 in a 1000 shipped

still any breakage is repaired or replaced FREE (handle wood or leather not included)

I use a Paul Binns which I got from

http://www.viking-shield.com/paulbinnsswords.html

I was told by many that a binns would last in combat an was worth every penny. This dealer is out of stock of two of the models right now but I called him when I wanted mine and he held it when they came in.

George

Heres a few

http://www.armourclass.com/ -these guys are great! Fantastic Service, impecable reputation, and a superior product-- highly recomended!

http://www.by-the-sword.com/new/index.html - they have a few LUTELS, PC Hanweis, ect.

http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/ -great rapiers, great price, great service

http://www.long-sword.com/ -theres a lot of crap in there but there is also some Hanweis, MRL's, Armour Class, Cold Steel and a few others scattered in there.

paul binns swords look good havent seen much of his stuff.

our swords have a more detialed look but with more detail comes a higher price.

i apologize for a lack of good examples on our website. major changes too come !!!

but if any of you are looking for examples of our work im sure me or my brother would help ya out !!! our season of ren fairs has started and you could always run down to your local ren fair and check out our booth. list of dealers is on our site !

matt !

The binns stuff carried at viking shield is the base line, you can check binns' site out and see the nice stuff, but the shipping to the U.S. will eat you alive.

www.paul-binns-swords.co.uk/

George

I ended up getting one of each of hanwei's practical swords- an arming and a viking sword. I'm enjoying them both right now, getting used to the feel and handling.
I've seen the stuff by Paul Binns, nice work, but out of my price range right now. Maybe when I'm making crane operator's wages. But until then, I think I will be quite happy with these two swords.
Now I'm just waiting for my Purpleheart Armoury wasters to arrive..