SEM Rules change?!?

For those of us who wish to talk about the many styles and facets of recreating Medieval armed combat.
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olaf haraldson
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Post by olaf haraldson »

I was not intending that to bash knights, and if it came out that way I really apologize. I simply meant that it should be getting shown the marshalls, and they should be able to discuss them with a concerned populace. I did not mean that this was a covert plot by the Chivalry, or the SEM for that matter. I do not know him, and cannot say that he is acting with malice or to forward some personal agenda... I don't get that feeling really, more that he is adressing what he feels are concerns, without knowing if others are really concerned.
Olaf

Gaston de Vieuxchamps wrote:Lets not replace "SEM-bashing" with "knight bashing".

The SEM didn't put this out to the knights. Someone "leaked" it to the knight's list because he/she was very concerned that this was going forward on the 15th and wanted an opportunity for wider commentary before then. The standards commitee (which is not large) has thus far been the only ones to actually be invited to comment. Someone decided that this was too important to keep secret and I for one will not second guess that decision. Getting the public involved means getting public pressure for the board to trump the SEM on this. That would mean the next SEM would then be in charge of the re-write.


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Jonny Deuteronomy
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Re: SEM Rules change?!?

Post by Jonny Deuteronomy »

Aaron wrote:Peers would not stoop so low to holding meetings like that...

-Aaron

Oh boy!


PS Bryce is at Pennsic
It's all just goobdooberous fripdippery now.
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Post by Ceddie »

All bashing aside, did anyone READ the rules?
Do you have any opinions?
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Post by tessathehuntress »

Just FYI.. actually the SEM posted the link to the new rules and the password on the society marshals list, so that current and previous KEMs and SDEM's could offer their input, suggestions, etc. It was not only given to the standardization committee.

IMO, it should go to the kingdom marshals first, before it gets posted everywhere. Especially since the KEM's can ask on the list questions about the pas d' arms, etc.. Then, again IMO.. and what I tried to do when possible with CA rules.. send it out to get more input, etc..

Tessa

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Post by Aaron »

Good Morrow,

SEM-bashing and knight bashing is just fine, providing that it's a legal target, we're on the field...and I get REALLY, REALLY lucky to get that 1 in 20 shot it. Trying to hit Knights is like trying to make a castle out of olive oil...hard to do, terribly difficult but oddly strange and rewarding when you're done.

I appreciate the Peerage a lot more now days. My appologies if I bashed a bit. I just thought that this was non-Peer behavior (from the view of someone who likes Peers now).

Prince Dmitry is a Peer, and I trust him and other Peers to work this out.

-Aaron
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Post by Seawolf2k »

Just an FYI.

I am no saying that this is the case but I read through the changes and alot of them are minor tweaks and changes in verbage.

One thing that everyone has to remember is that the SCA is a corporation and subject to liability lawsuits. Civil case law changes all the time and some of the verbage changes could be for liability reasons only.

We may not like it but the BOD may have no choice because of current or threatened litigation.

just a thought.
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Post by Aaron »

Seawolf2k wrote:Just an FYI.

I am no saying that this is the case but I read through the changes and alot of them are minor tweaks and changes in verbage.

One thing that everyone has to remember is that the SCA is a corporation and subject to liability lawsuits. Civil case law changes all the time and some of the verbage changes could be for liability reasons only.

We may not like it but the BOD may have no choice because of current or threatened litigation.

just a thought.


You might be right. The words "remove Pas d' Arms" had me snarling like the entrie US Government telling Owen "Everybody in the USA will be a tie-wearing Republican" ;)

But looking at the verbage, it looks like what they are saying that you can have counted blows ANYTHING. It's not restricting counted blows to Pas d' Arms...

[C. Remove Pas d'Arms Dispensation

1. Fighters participating in a Pas d'Arms tourney may deviate from the above
rules in favor of the blows received (or counted-blows) method of determining a
bout.] .


I may have jumped the gun. I will still react with something on the analogy of cold rage when told that Pas d' Armes are out... Apologies might be in order from me (tell me where to send them).

-Aaron
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Post by blackbow »

Kilkenny wrote:
BdeB wrote:They removed counterweights a while ago (which I though was weird). I'll be pissed if I have to destroy my spear because I have an end cap.(something that used to be required in my kingdom but has been weirded up by the 'we must be able to see the thickness of your spear shaft' rule)


hrm.. Seems to me that they may have thought they removed them, and now they're making certain we understand they're removed. Yet I continue to fail to understand the reasoning. The counterweight is (generally) put there to give the wielder better control of the weapon (that's a Good Thing). The weight limit is there to prevent excessively heavy weapons being used.

And I've never understood why people thought it a good idea to permanently affix a cap over the butt end of the hollow spear shaft. I want to be able to check that hollow shaft for loading - and maddening as it is, there have been some cases...

Gavin
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Gavin:

my understanding of the butt cap was to keep dirt out of the end so it didn't come out at an inopportune moment. Granted that that's years old.

Regards,

Jonathan Blackbow
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Post by Fearghus Macildubh »

F. Only one weapon or shield can be controlled by an arm at any one time. For
example, if a strapped shield is being used in conjunction with a spear, while
the spear is being grasped, the shield will be treated as a vambrace. Once the
spear is no longer in the shield hand, the shield will function as a normal
shield. The only exception to this rule is the madu. Shields on madus will be
limited to twelve inches in diameter.

As an unabashed madu fighter, this strikes me as silly. You can use a weapon that did not exist in Europe, but can't use one that did exist? For example, I use a short spear held in my left hand, along with a buckler. In essence it's a madu, but the buckler is not fixed to the spear. I figure it's the equivalent of holding a javelin behind a buckler, something done in Europe. According to the proposed change that would be illegal, but if I attached the buckler, it would be? Or I could make the spear an axe with a blade that allowed my guantelet to fit behind it, and that would be legal? Makes no sense.
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Post by Apollonian »

Removing the pas d'arms provision from the handbook does NOT preclude the practice. In fact, we have always had the practice. The "dispensation" as it was called, left confusion across the board and in reality, many pas organizers thought the dispensation could include weapons variances, armor variances, etc. It does not and never did.

Counted blows? Sure, just declare immediate resurrections and limit those resurrection to a specific number. Call it a pas. Just don't mess with weapons , armor, or engagement rules.

Geez. This was alot to do about not so much. I guess alot of people are already prepared for the War.

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Post by sarnac »

I think the confusion lies in the fact that there are those that see this change as making any tournaments that deviate from the standard SCA tourney illegal.

the wording can be interpreted that way...

clarification is what is needed...instead we get muddier waters.
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Re: SEM Rules change?!?

Post by BdeB »

Ulrich wrote: Sir,

I disagree that you are "not trying to start the normal SEM-bashing". I believe that is exactly what you are attempting.

You're posting something from a closed list, that was not open for cross posting, part of a document which was taken from a password protected website, specifically not open for public comment yet. Of which you have no personal permission to dissiminate.

I believe that this type of thing should be beneath a Knight, especially you. I suggest you delete this thread and send your comments on this subject directly to those it concerns.

Regards,
Ulrich von Brandenburg


Ulrich,

I meant nothing malicious in posting this, and it's rather sad that you choose to see it that way. It came acrost the SCA Chiv list without a reference and I wanted to see if I was crazy or if anyone else had heard about these far reaching changes. Some time afterwards I was told that this was potential wording from a Draft. At no time was I aware that it was seceret.

I'm sorry if Robert is a friend or mentor of yours Ulrich, I didn't mean any slight, I was just curious for information since this shocked the hell out of me. The wording on some of these changes is really, really aweful.

"Neck Nob"? Come on... :roll: I'm glad to know this is a draft.

Should you wish to further the discussion, I will be back at Pennsic in five days.
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Post by Vebrand »

Sarnac, I think people are reading to deeply into this. That is what is really mudding the waters.

Now let me get this right. The SEM posted proposed changes out to the standards committee and the KEMs asking their opinion. Basically saying, "Hey, here are some changes I am looking at for the next rewrite what do ya'll thank?" Pretty much knowing that the KEM will put it out to those they fill need to see it and gather their input. Since I am sure the SEM is at Pensic he is probably holding a meeting to discuss this with people up there and gather feedback, probably the reason for the 15th deadline is to talk about it there. However someone decided the SEM is trying to backdoor everyone and starts a "We can't let him do this" and post it on a list and it goes from there. They take the proposed changes or gathering opinions as this is set in stone and won'tt change. You guys really, really kill me. People wonder why I don't read the off topics page.

By the way this is not the first time something put out on the Chiv list has made it to the AA. A few private emails or discussions have made it here which is a shame.

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Post by Mike F »

With all due respect to the peerage, this sort of thing should be posted for general consumption, due to the fact that a knight doesn't always know more about safety than a non-fighter. (One would hope they would, but sometimes the untrained think more broadly, etc.)

If this <i>was</i> going to come out, and it was leaked early, that's a shame, but now or later, what's the difference?

Now: To the rules (as an armorer sees it, I don't fight yet)

i. All helms shall be equipped with a chinstrap or other means utilized to
prevent the helm from being dislodged Add or contacting the wearer's face during
combat. An equivalent might be, for example, [Remove a strap from helm to
breastplate]


I assume this only removed the example, not the legality. A frogmouth or great bascinet can be screwed, bolted, or strapped down better to a breastplate than a chinstrap would work. (Not that many exist in SCA combat, due to vision problems)

Hand and Wrist Armor - The outer surfaces of the hand and [Add thumb to one
inch above the] wrist of both arms must be covered by one or a combination of
the following:

a. A Remove metal basket hilt with enough bars or plates to prevent a blow from
striking the fingers or the back of the hand. If a basket hilt [Add , shield
basket or center grip shield] is used, a vambrace and or partial gauntlet shall
cover the remaining portions of the hand and wrist [Add and thumb].


I'm a hair confused, and I think formatting is to blame. A certain prince has gauntlets with no bell whatsoever, and relies on his vambraces (which tend to be less than 1/2" away) to protect the wrist. I assume this is still legal. Otherwise, it seems low-profile gauntlets for persona who don't use gauntlets are going out the window.

[Banning Siloflex, I guess he decided that he didn't like it any more. ]


I was under the impression he never liked it. I've never heard more than rumors of faliure. Perhaps the SEM should start tracking equipment faliures and injuries so we have hard numbers for this.

The the Pas d'Armes ruling seems odd, since it doesn't hurt anyone (more than usual, I guess) and it gives a place to point a finger saying, "See, this isn't banned under the 'No non SCA martial arts' rule."

The shiled edging affects me (I never edged my shield) but I can see problems, mostly with aluminum shields. I doubt my plywood shield would damage a rattan stick covered in duct tape (certainly no more than a flared edge on plate!) and I've seen a large number of very ugly shield edges. Perhaps different standards for wood and metal shields?

That's most of what I noticed. Again, I'm trying to see this from the viewpoint of safety with as little damage to appearance (and the persuit of authenticity) as possible. I'd like to see more period-style harnesses on the field, but as was pointed out to me a while back, the advantage of the SCA is if I want to hang out with people who want to try to do that, I can. Whereas if someone wants to hang out with the less historical minded and just have fun, they can. Aren't we supposed to be having fun? (Safely, anyway)
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Post by Cet »

Since I am sure the SEM is at Pensic he is probably holding a meeting to discuss this with people up there and gather feedback, probably the reason for the 15th deadline is to talk about it there



If he's planning to do this he has yet to inform KEM of the East, his acting deputy, or any Eastern members of the standards comittee whom I know about it.[/quote]
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Post by sarnac »

Vebrand wrote:Sarnac, I think people are reading to deeply into this. That is what is really mudding the waters.

Now let me get this right. The SEM posted proposed changes out to the standards committee and the KEMs asking their opinion. Basically saying, "Hey, here are some changes I am looking at for the next rewrite what do ya'll thank?" Pretty much knowing that the KEM will put it out to those they fill need to see it and gather their input. Since I am sure the SEM is at Pensic he is probably holding a meeting to discuss this with people up there and gather feedback, probably the reason for the 15th deadline is to talk about it there. However someone decided the SEM is trying to backdoor everyone and starts a "We can't let him do this" and post it on a list and it goes from there. They take the proposed changes or gathering opinions as this is set in stone and won'tt change. You guys really, really kill me. People wonder why I don't read the off topics page.

By the way this is not the first time something put out on the Chiv list has made it to the AA. A few private emails or discussions have made it here which is a shame.

Vebrand



I hate to say this.... but this SEM has shown, by his actions, a history of ruling by Fiat and issuing changes at a whim with NO regard to how it effects the Fighting community at large as long as it fits his personal agenda....

I have heard of no meeting scheduled at Pennsic in any forum that I am a part of including the Standardization Committee.

It would be completely within his current MO to post for comments during Pennsic to minimize responses from people who disagree.

The only saving grace is that his term is over before this manual has to be approved and the Society's fighting community will be better for it, IMHO.
The DSEM who is taking over, apparently is a far more reasonable man who, by all accounts, sees the "big picture".
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Post by Vebrand »

sarnac wrote:I hate to say this.... but this SEM has shown, by his actions, a history of ruling by Fiat and issuing changes at a whim with NO regard to how it effects the Fighting community at large as long as it fits his personal agenda....


I really, really hate going here and this is one of the reasons I have really stopped reading and posting but here I go. Since you are so familar with Robert and his mind, can I ask what his personal agenda is??? I do know Robert and have no clue.

It would be completely within his current MO to post for comments during Pennsic to minimize responses from people who disagree.


Really, so he has made such drastic changes to the fighting rules? I only know of two (360 degree rules and siloflex) he made that was of major changes. Both he explained well on why he made them and when so many disagreed with the 360 he resended it. [/quote]

The only saving grace is that his term is over before this manual has to be approved and the Society's fighting community will be better for it, IMHO.
The DSEM who is taking over, apparently is a far more reasonable man who, by all accounts, sees the "big picture".


Here is why I have stopped posting the AA. How do you know? I mean really, unless you know the DSEM and SEM well enough to actually make that kind of statement. I know Robert and have never had a problem asking him something or why he was looking at or making a rule change. I can say I know how he thinks on SCA fighting and he truly enjoys the sport and the SCA as a whole. Robert has put many years in and has served in an office that is very hard to fill. I do not know the DSEM and even if I totally disagree with a policy he makes I will not attack him on a personal level because I don't know him. How can make a statement about a person I have never met or only met once or twice. Too much of that is going on and it is why I have slowed my postings to almost nil.

Sarnac I have read many of your postings and think you are a level headed and upstanding Knight. I just disagree with you on this.

Vebrand
This is last I am posting on this thread as I feel I have let myself down.
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Post by Mike F »

Vebrand, sticking up for someone you know who can't defend themselves isn't letting yourself down.

I'd be more than happy to hear is explainations for his changes (historically and these) since several seemed very inconsistant. The gauntlet proposed changes seemed like a safety issue, as does the current knee ruling, but the current knee ruling also seems to ban non-articulated floating cops. Is this a side-effect or the intent? Why doesn't the cuisse count the same way the vambrace does with the wrist?

Personally, I think when people diagree with so many of his previous ideas, and the fact that he proposes so many changes (many of which raise some ire somewhere) makes people see a deliberate agenda which <i>may</i> not be the case.

Personally, I think he's got some agenda, and as such I've only agreed with the different wording regarding our intent to what SCA fighting is. Truth be told, I don't know if that was his change or not. But regardless, I don't pretend to know what he's doing, but just like anyone, I can surmise, correct or no.
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Post by Ceddie »

Really, so he has made such drastic changes to the fighting rules? I only know of two (360 degree rules and siloflex) he made that was of major changes. Both he explained well on why he made them and when so many disagreed with the 360 he resended it.


APD's
spear sliders
counterweights on spears
butt caps on spears
side sword ban (was overturned)
full contact archers
shrink tube
cup/basket hilt blocking

**items in red were NOT changes made by the current SEM.**
** My ERROR**
Last edited by Ceddie on Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koredono »

sarnac wrote:I have heard of no meeting scheduled at Pennsic in any forum that I am a part of including the Standardization Committee.

It would be completely within his current MO to post for comments during Pennsic to minimize responses from people who disagree.

FYI, as of yesterday, the SEM was not coming to Pennsic (mundane life cropped up); there was a plan for a KW KEM meeting but never scheduled, and it's uncertain whether the KEMs on site want to have one without him (his suggestion, BTW).

Also, the SEM has extended the commenting deadline on the proposed rules changes to Aug 30.
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Post by sarnac »

I was just informed of the extension of commentary on the Standardization Committee list.

Sorry you feel its personal...Verbrand... but its not.

When a pattern of disregard for the best interests of the Combat community....be they intentional or simple oversight... start to appear...it shows an agenda.

What that is I dont know but it seems to be all his because alot of what we discuss on the Interkingdom Standards Committee list...of which I have been a member of since day one... are summarily ignored even though senior marshals and fighters from across the world have come to a consensus and rendered an informed and hashed out opinion on issues that the SEM has asked us to review.

He can do whatever he wants .... and put infront of the board whatever changes he feels we need....but he also must be ready to defend those changes to the world wide membership whom he serves.... he seems to have forgotten that point.... as these changes show.
I as a Peer and member have the very same responsibility to support or oppose the changes he proposes dpending on how I believe it will effect the Society.
In this case I believe the majority of changes are meaningless and arbitrary and in some cases downright harmful to the fighting community.
I would be no Knight of the Society if I knew about this and DID NOT act.
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Post by mrks »

Ceddie wrote:
Really, so he has made such drastic changes to the fighting rules? I only know of two (360 degree rules and siloflex) he made that was of major changes. Both he explained well on why he made them and when so many disagreed with the 360 he resended it.


APD's
spear sliders
counterweights on spears
butt caps on spears
side sword ban (was overturned)
full contact archers
shrink tube
cup/basket hilt blocking



hey dont forget the crazy full bell around the wrist thing right before estrella... that would have made hundreds of demi and full gaunts illegal. (including mine).

criticism written above is based on consistant disregard for the fighting community at large.
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Post by Saint-Sever »

I've been looking over the rules recently.

Officeholders should have to sign a statement at the beginning of their terms that says, in effect, "My purpose in office is to be a good steward. I do not have to justify my existence in office; it is a gift of my time, from me to the Society. Unless driven by real necessity, my goal is to leave as small a footprint as I can from my time in office."

Once upon a time, the critical eye used by KEMs and SEMs to examine proposed SCA combat gear regs was:

"Armor mandated for places where getting hit by sticks could kill you or cripple you for life.

Armor strongly recommended for places where it would hurt really bad to get hit by sticks.

Never mind anywhere else. If you think it hurts too much to get hit there, you'll armor it on your own.

Weapons that in normal use would tend to calibrate in the first two armor categories probably need to be eyed with a view towards removal."

What the @#$@?

What we've got now is natural bureaucratic overgrowth. It needs to be examined on a regular basis, and the dead wood trimmed back and sanity restored to the system. Judging from what I've been reading, trimming-time is overdue.
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Post by Magnus The Black »

Perhaps it would be best to let SEM finish working on what is obviously a work in progress and then extend to him your opinion based upon your view points and experiances when it is finished. To do otherwise really serves no purpose than to disrupt. I have met the current SEM and had discussion with him on my own kit. His concerns where the same as the local and kingdom marshals. No more than that. He offered some very good sugestions on how to fix as well. All in all he seemed like a very good & reasonable man to me.
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Post by Ceddie »

Magnus, the point is: Now IS the time for input, repealing the changes after the fact is much harder than making changes that the majority can agree on in the 1st place. Burrying our face in the sheets and hoping it goes away will not help at all.
It is also no small wonder that his concerns (about your kit) are the same as you local and Kingdom Marshalette, you and he are from the same Kingdom.

*****That is no way meant as a slight to the Kingdom of Meridies, if the SEM were a Trimarian who has been our EM recently, his views and the Trimarian Marshalette would, more than likely, see eye to eye.***
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Post by Magnus The Black »

Ceddie the point I was trying to make is he seems like a reasonable guy & one should not judge another based on unfinished work.
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Post by InsaneIrish »

Lord Magnus the Black wrote:Ceddie the point I was trying to make is he seems like a reasonable guy & one should not judge another based on unfinished work.


I have quite a few friends that I consider great people but I wouldn't trust them with the responsibility of a Potato Gun let alone an office that can wield power over thousands of people.

Not pointing fingers or trying to Slight our current SEM. Just making the statement that just because someone is a "good guy" and well liked on a personal level does not mean they would be good at a position of great responsibility.
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Post by jester »

I'm on the road so I don't have time to organize my thoughts. I apologize for the disjointed nature of this reply.

1) The rules seem to be written, with the best of intentions, by a succession of people who have ideas about what the game should be. The renewed emphasis on the killing blow standard seems to indicate a preference by the current crop of officials for 'fighting to the death'. I believe the rules should be written to cover a broader range of scenarios and we should encourage people to be highly specific about the scenarios a specific event models itself on. This eliminates inconsistencies that occur when we get a rule based on a non-deadly vision of the game side by side with a ruled based on deadly vision of the game.

2) The Pas D'Arms dispensation removal was explained to me (by Sir Rey riBeaumont) as being the elimination of a superfluous rule. If it isn't prohibited then, consistent with safety considerations, it is allowed. Frankly, that standard ought to be written into the rules.

3) It's all well and good to want to have your ducks in a row before going public with major changes to something this central to the Society. But this creates the impression that a 'secret society' of privileged people are running things. And there is some substance behind this perception. We, the Society, would benefit from a more open decision-making process. How hard would it have been to put up a web page that lists the draft rules and then ask a few deputies to monitor the discussion that occurs in places like this? Not hard. And, at the very least, it creates the impression that the opinions of rank and file participants matter. It also might pick up some good ideas that might not occur to a few people and it fosters discussion of the rules, leading to a better understanding of the rules and, in theory, safer participation with fewer misunderstandings.
tessathehuntress
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Post by tessathehuntress »

Ceddie,

a correction to your list of changes that the current SEM made:

APD's were required by the previous SEM (Duke Eringlen), before Earl Robert took office.

Full contact archers. That rule never happened. Currently, 3, perhaps 4 kingdoms have non-contact (i.e. proximity kill) archers, The West, An Tir and Lochac. I believe Ansteorra currently allows them, but only has like 5 in their entire kingdom?

The rule change that you are thinking about (I'm guessing), was the change to Society minimums for armor.. now all fighters have the same armor standards (including combat archers), the only difference allowed is in the hand protection.

That rule change was made by his deputy for combat archery, which was me (at that time), with his support. Non-contact archers have not been eliminated. They just have to wear the same minimum armor as everyone else.

Tessa

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Ceddie
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Post by Ceddie »

Thank you Tessa, I have adjusted my list to reflect my error.

Sorry all.
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Geoffrey of Blesedale
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Post by Geoffrey of Blesedale »

I am just a little serf out here among the nobility, so let my words carry their weight as such:

I have only been in the Society for a couple years, auth heavy not quite a year and a half. I enjoy it very much, but it is discouraging to see changes proposed that seemingly have little to do with safety or authenticity. I have seen several changes at kingdom and society levels, and all it does is cause confusion and frustration. My observations on these proposals:

III, C: How does one judge "intentionally" blocking with a basket?

IV, E: Most shields, it can be argued, are NOT controlled by the hand, but by the arm it is strapped to.

IV, F: here it says the shield is controlled by the arm (???)

V, B: No way on hell can a regular sword cut thru maille on one blow. To follow this logic, we need to count blows all the time. (3 shots to the arm to disable...)

VII, E: an unpadded polearm does not have a head (by my reading of the rules). I see it more so removing the chance of someone putting a core in a head. I had tried that, and my marshal friend Hedinn posted it on the marshal list, where it caused quite a stir. I used a Rubbermaid plastic core and had it encased in foam and leather, thinking it would help keep the axe in shape (it did not). MINE would have been safe in use, but it violated the "spirit) of the law.

As an aside, an unpadded pole cleaving on the top of the head or the shoulders can hit WAY too hard, IMO, and I would not be sad to see them go.

Just an FYI.

I am no saying that this is the case but I read through the changes and alot of them are minor tweaks and changes in verbage.

One thing that everyone has to remember is that the SCA is a corporation and subject to liability lawsuits. Civil case law changes all the time and some of the verbage changes could be for liability reasons only.

We may not like it but the BOD may have no choice because of current or threatened litigation.

just a thought.


I do not agree with this logic. We all sign a waiver. We are all responsible for our own safety. These rules changes have little to do with that, but seem to be geared to tweeking how the game is played, perhaps to suit the SEM's perceptions?

I personally think it was right for BdeB to post here. Radical changes (real or perceived) need to be addressed before they become law and the damage is done.
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"vincit qui se vincit"
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Post by Odo »

Geoffrey of Blesedale wrote:As an aside, an unpadded pole cleaving on the top of the head or the shoulders can hit WAY too hard, IMO, and I would not be sad to see them go.


There is a fallacy here that needs to be pointed out. An unpadded glaive does not hit any harder than the person wielding it. A padded glaive can hit just as hard, and cause just as much damage. If you do not believe me, let me hit you with a rubber headed pole axe.

The problem is not the weapon. The problem is the wielder.

Odo
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Post by Thorstenn »

Your Grace Odo.....

Please NEVER hit lil old me with a rubber pole axe. Hmmm-Kay :wink:

Thank you.

Now to crawl under a rock and hide.

P.S. are you going to Squires revolt?
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Post by Aaron »

You have a point.

Duke Paul could probably throw an excessive shot with an overripe, peeled bannana if he wanted to. It's purely on the skill and body mechanics of the fighter.

-Aaron
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Ceddie
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Post by Ceddie »

There is a fallacy here that needs to be pointed out. An unpadded glaive does not hit any harder than the person wielding it. A padded glaive can hit just as hard, and cause just as much damage. If you do not believe me, let me hit you with a rubber headed pole axe.

The problem is not the weapon. The problem is the wielder.

Odo


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