The Armour Archive

em, wat armour are you wearing? maybe from paper? I dont like this pictures

Here is a pic of a bruise my squire Viviane recieved a year or 2 ago. It was dubbed the Eye of Sauron. She told me guys at the feast kept wanting to see it....I told her well duh.

"With great respect, Robyn's armor just doesn't fit her. She is impossible to fit with off the rack armor, and having a minstrel and an actor build her stuff (even if it is made with great care) is not the same as having an armorer do it. "

Armor that doesn't fit, especially a helm, is a significant problem. If your equipment is harming you, or leading to harm, then you need to pause and regroup. Having had a helm that was too small for my noggin almost broke my nose. Not a fun experience. I'll see if I dig around and find something.

However, most folks need to understand that your gonna get a bruises and sore muscles in this game. I've gotten more than I can count, and imo, I derserved almost every one of them.

Mord.

I used to get bruises like this a lot despite plate armour backed with 3/4 inch closed cell. After a couple of years, I decided I was just too stupid to learn how to fight without causing myself serious harm. I quit. A couple of years later, I finally found someone who was willing to teach me at something besides full force.

You will occassionally get bad bruises. However, if this happens regularly, either talk to your teacher about a change of instruction methods (i.e. let's do slow work or use boffers until I get the technique) or just find someone else entirely.


Jesmond

LMAO...go to one of the local museums and snitch Robyn a suit from the display. They oughta fit her just fine. hehe

JB

freiman the minstrel wrote:

Alcyoneus wrote:Is her new armor on the way yet?

It has been delayed a little by emergency surgery.

I am sort of working on a kit for her right now too. John Springfield sent her a tiny houndskull and I am trying to find a pattern for a nice corazina.
Robyn is balking at the closed face, so I am going to find out of Thomas at our local Metalbau (German Blacksmith's shop) can modify it to accept a switchable faceplate. There are enough drawings of switchable hinges on the web that I think I can get a good one made, and Thomas is a german system master blacksmith, though he mostly does tractor parts. He gets a little excited when he gets something else in the shop to work on.

Sir Gaston made a lovely demonstration suit that was displayed on Arador that was designed to show what can be accomplished with simple tools, and I think I want to make a copy of that rig. I am just having trouble finding the patterns for the Corazina.

The rest I think that I can pattern out on my own, but I have never felt the need for a rigid breastplate of any kind, and I imagine that it is even more complicated than it looks.

Any armor I make will not be as good as Stonekeep's, but "too much armor" just isn't one of the possible states of being for a fighter.

Rev, Robyn refuses to cut the helm because it is a shire loaner helm.

And Joachim, my favorite piece of smack talk is "Your Grace, you sure do move really good for an old, fat guy". Proper guyness requires that you be in armor and prepared to be whacked when you say it.

freiman

Jess-
Contact me via IM.
-Vitus

Joachim wrote:Ok, stories it is. I don't take pictures of them.

About 3 months ago I was having dinner with a Duke that shall remain nameless. We were discussing activity level and what not. I made the mistake of mentioning I was only going to get older and slower. Well, he reminded me that he was 5 years my senior and asked "So, I'm old and slow, eh?".
<snip>
I'm starting to think maybe I should keep my mouth shut, eh? Nah, I've learned a great deal from both of the experiences and it's just fun.

So, here's an evil thought for you. Most Dukes *are* slow(er) than they were at their peak.

Gavin
tired old fat slow stiff and sore - but you can call me Your Grace

I guess I am weird...I never took pictures of bruises...


I bruise fairly easily. I've had some crazy ones over the years...one of the worst ones in recent (like 4 or so years ago) memory was from a Katana fight with HM Micheal of Bedford to five counted flags.



My left leg from my knee to my hip was one large bruise. Ouch!

One of the worst bruise I ever gave some one was one of the locals that let his belly get bigger than his cop, I hit the lower plate and it scissored his fat between the plate and his weight lifting belt, it started at his belly button, about and around almost to his spine about 3 inches tall and black like a blood blister

-T

Odo wrote:

Talontwoswords wrote:New people do not need physical pain (i.e. bruising) as their teacher.

I needed that kind of persuasion to get better. I started fighting in a pair of stainless legs, and I died by the stainless legs. I did not get better until I went to almost minimums. Pain is a wonderful teacher!

Odo

Sir, it's good you had the opportunity to at least start out with the stainless legs.

I have heard occasional stories of Duke or two with cracked/broken whatever, sometimes from an apparent lack of armour. I wonder if it was worth it, but that's their problem.

Odo wrote:I do not have pictures but I do have a story. When I first started fighting, I called Duke Baldar out. I called him a pussy basically. He came to my future knights house (where I was staying), drank beer all night, then lit me up the next day. My bruises were very similar to tlast's. I found it hard to drive the 5 hours home and my wife thought I was in a car accident because I could barely walk. It was one of the best days of my fighting life because I fought evey single breath.

Just my thoughts.
Odo

Yeah - I didn't call anyone a pussy, but this was from an excellent training evening with Animal, one he told me afterward "Oh, by the way, I 'turned it up' on you tonight. You were ready for it".

What did I learn that night that needed correcting?

Don't overextend the block.
Don't stand up out of your proper guard, even if he does - it's a sucker move.
Don't try to slug it out while standing toe-to-toe with Animal. Move.

And my new rule #1 Don't get hit in the "meat parts".

tlast wrote:

Odo wrote:I do not have pictures but I do have a story. When I first started fighting, I called Duke Baldar out. I called him a pussy basically. He came to my future knights house (where I was staying), drank beer all night, then lit me up the next day. My bruises were very similar to tlast's. I found it hard to drive the 5 hours home and my wife thought I was in a car accident because I could barely walk. It was one of the best days of my fighting life because I fought evey single breath.

Just my thoughts.
Odo

Yeah - I didn't call anyone a pussy, but this was from an excellent training evening with Animal, one he told me afterward "Oh, by the way, I 'turned it up' on you tonight. You were ready for it".

What did I learn that night that needed correcting?

Don't overextend the block.
Don't stand up out of your proper guard, even if he does - it's a sucker move.
Don't try to slug it out while standing toe-to-toe with Animal. Move.

And my new rule #1 Don't get hit in the "meat parts".

Animal ROCKS!

I have had some bad bruises. I have always tended to not wear a great deal of torso armor, and it showed at times.

Sir Ustad the Dreaded was the enemy of my asscheeks for weeks in Barony of the Flame, where Sir Vitus hails from. It had a decided training effect, and I was able to measure my increase in skill by whether or not I was coming home with a bruise like (but almost always smaller) than one of these shown.

Robyn, you keep on keepin' on.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

But what about us old, slow, lefty Dukes?

Regards,
Richard
Ansteorra

Jean Richard Malcolmson wrote:But what about us old, slow, lefty Dukes?

Regards,
Richard
Ansteorra

I say nothing...NOTHING!!!

I will keep my mouth shut.

whoa,

I won´t complain about my itty bitty bruises anymore.
Jess, I really hate to say this, but probably you wanna get other leg armour... jesus, this looks awful!!!

Yepp, the shoulder bruise now got nice stripes where the blows came in. Those bruises were NOT caused by the helm. The helm just left a tiny armour bite that was bleeding a bit, but you can´t see it in the pic.
Unfortunately the helm belongs to our lovely earl marshal, and if I don´t use it anymore it´ll be loaner gear. If I start cutting stuff duwn to my size no ones gonna be able to use it anymore, and that´s silly...

Armor that doesn't fit, especially a helm, is a significant problem. If your equipment is harming you, or leading to harm, then you need to pause and regroup. Having had a helm that was too small for my noggin almost broke my nose. Not a fun experience. I'll see if I dig around and find something.

Unfortunately I can´t pause. If I don´t come to fighter practice at my shire there will be none. None of my newbies has authorisation, and it´s just a bad idea to let them meet and hit each other without someone watching them...

The thing is, I have full defense up and they still hit through. ... gotta figure out how to solve this...

I hate all my fighter friends worrying about my safety. If I were normal sized and could wear normal gear this wouldn´t happen. Sorry to you guys at this point, I really don´t wanna waste all your time because you´re helping me... Sooooorrryy and thanks!

Joachim, I love your story... Damn, how good I know those blows that still ring in your ears the next morning... those when you just wanna shout hallelujah and neet to rest for ten minutes they so much remind you you´re alive still... hehe


Is it weird to say I really love the look of bruises on my body? I don´t like the pain, but I love all those colours... just like a weird tatoo on my milk-coloured skin... But I gotta say the hair on you guys legs kinda destroys the art...
But the stripes in the artwork on some of your pics really are very beautiful...

Thanks for sharing!

Rob

Robyn, I have to say that in the 20+ years that I have been fighting, I have never once been able to buy a piece of armour off of the shelf and have it fit perfectly. That is a very rare experience for most fighters, regardless of size.

All of these beautiful artworks, illuminations, effigies, brasses etc, of armour that fits well are of nobles. They were rich enough to commission custom pieces that fit them. The stuff in thier armouries that was worn by common soldiers, not so much. It may come close to fitting, but if it wasn't made for you, it probably won't fit.

A key problem you will have with your fighting is that you are short and it is easier to see and hit targets that you look over the top of. The strength that you will have is that you are small enough to use your opponents size against them.

Hide up against thier shield, move around them, and use thier movement against them. The key is mobility. You will never be able to stand still and aim at your target, toe-to-toe. You loose your advantage that way. The technique I am explaining is very hard to describe in the written word, and it take a lot of practice, but I think that will be the best way to go for you.

Cool looking bruises though! ;-D

Uilleag, who gets his fair share of bruises too!

i don't have a pic but i do have a really cool "leopard print" bruise on my shoulder from a bastard sword fight on sunday..... can anyone guess who fights in chainmail?? haha and the week before that i was legged and playing singlesword, josh warren decides instead of taking my head as i was over extending trying to get his.....at the last second to snap one right on my extended unarmoured forearm...it left a pretty nifty bruise.


i guess maybe he's just trying to "inspire" me to finish my bazuband's that have taken a back burner to a few other things.

The prettiest one I ever got was this spring from HRM (then HRH) Felix at practice. Picture, this, bend right (sword) arm and point elbow up, and an angry looking bruise in the perfect shape of a heart on the tricep area.
I bruise slowly and it was the next day before it was seen (by my wife).
Luckily, it stayed around until the following weeks practice

Hrolfr wrote:The prettiest one I ever got was this spring from HRM (then HRH) Felix at practice. Picture, this, bend right (sword) arm and point elbow up, and an angry looking bruise in the perfect shape of a heart on the tricep area.
I bruise slowly and it was the next day before it was seen (by my wife).
Luckily, it stayed around until the following weeks practice

Gives a new meaning to Love Tap


Max

I have had my fair share of bruises as well. Unfortunately, I have no pictures available. Perhaps next time I get one, I will start the latested thread of showing off our badges....

Robyn,

I realize this is a huge tangent, so please bear with me....

I will preface this by saying that I am not a Duke, Count, or even one that wears a white belt (yet) but I have fought for a number of years and have experiences that range into eastern martial arts as well.

Some people are naturally fast, but these are rare individuals. I am not a large fighter (especially by southern US standards) coming in at 5"10 and 200 pounds, so I am often outsized and out reached by my opponents. You have this issue, though to a much greater degree. I am not one of those who is blessed by natural speed, so I had to learn another way to compensate. In my learning experiences, I have had a number of teachers, ranging from Ansteorran knights to Kings and Dukes to the fresh on the field newbie. The biggest thing that I learned was not actually learned while I was on the field in practice or tourney or war. It was while I was marshalling at a coronation a few years ago.

The Coronation tourney consisted of two lists - one of non-belted fighters and the other, belted fighters consisting of knights, Counts and Dukes. From my vantage right on the side of the field, I was able to see the fighting from a perspective advantage. I watched the non-belt tourney, which was well fought by all and very entertaining (I think it was won by a fighter named Sasha.) Then the belted tourney began. It was a whole different game. The method of fighting, the PSYCHOLOGY of the fight and the movement in the fight...it was eye opening...better yet, it was mind-opening. There was a decided difference in how the belted fighters fought (which actually consisted of many Dukes, Counts and seasoned knights - I do not recall any newer knights in the mix) There were three key things that were different about how they fought.
One - Mobility - not just back and forth, but side to side, dodging, jigging, ducking, etc. They were almost never NOT moving in some fashion.
Two - Mental Game - There was more going on between the two combatants in each fight that you could not see than there was that you could. The only real measure of the this part of their game was in slight movements of the body (which ties to the first key) - a shift in the foot position here or a slight lean to one side...or maybe a slight change in the angle of their weapon. Things that you would miss if you were not paying attention for them.
Three - Deliberation - Every blow, every step, every slight movement made had very specific purpose. This is not to say that there was not purpose to the others I watched fight... They did, but it appeared to be more of a general purpose rather than a very specific one - The belts movements all built up upon each previous action - the step to the left built on the slight incline of the shield which built on the bending of the knees which built on the half step forward...all coming to a head in the feint right to the head and striking the the left shoulder. The nonbelt chain appeared more like - juke left get in and swing for the head.

Hard to explain with words. All three keys intertwined and played off each other. They utilized the belt's advantages and their opponents disadvantages.

The culmination of all of this also showed me that many of those Dukes and Counts and knights are not as fast as they appear. As a matter of fact, with rare exception, they were no faster than anyone else, or maybe only slightly so....they could just read their opponent so well, they knew what the action would be almost as fast as their opponent had decided to take that action. That appearance of speed is a key in our sport.

It made for the most memorable lesson (or set of lessons) I have learned in SCA combat.

Now, if I could only include all of that in my own fighting!!


Now that my tangent is over...I will let you get back to you regularly scheduled bruises..

tlast wrote:Yeah - I didn't call anyone a pussy, but this was from an excellent training evening with Animal, one he told me afterward "Oh, by the way, I 'turned it up' on you tonight. You were ready for it".

Animal is a good friend and an old room-mate of mine. I wouldn't be any where near as good when facing off vs. polearms if it wasn't for him.

I once spent an entire fighter practice figuring out how to "get in" on him when he had his naginata. He spent the evening beating me like I was a seal and there was only 5 minutes left of seal clubbing season.

I finally figure out that the way to get in on him was to turn my body into something that would have Gumby going "whoa!", and smacked him a good one. His response was, "Good job! I'm done for the night."

His secret is...his dial goes up to '11'...and he knows when to take a break.


Frederich

Jess. DAMN LEFTIES!!! ouch man......

The shield side did not look much better... It is an understatement to say that I was experiencing difficulty with blocking. I think a lot of that was delivered by a couple of gentlemen fighting single sword off-hand and maybe a couple of florentine fighters.

None of the blows were given with malice. I know and like these guys. I just got hit a lot.

That night after practice, I decided that I was quiting so I took a lot of photos. I wanted to keep them so that when I healed up, I would be able to look at them and convince myself that heavy weapons was not for me.

It worked for a while, but I have never been a slave to reason. Anyway, I am not getting marked like that now.

Jesmond

Now that I am thinking about it, that may be my shield leg. It was taken by me and you are seeing it in the reflection of a mirror.

Jesmond

I just got my left pinky finger broken at a cub scout demo last weekend. I took a shot with rebated steel directly on top of the nail. I hate to spend the money, but I have finally decided to break down and get some steel gauntlets.
Of course this was 2 days prior to going off to annual training for the National Guard so I wasnt able to get it checked out. The medic on site did however drill 5 holes in the nail to relieve the swelling. It was about 1 1/2 times the normal size.

Mike

Maximillian wrote:

Hrolfr wrote:The prettiest one I ever got was this spring from HRM (then HRH) Felix at practice. Picture, this, bend right (sword) arm and point elbow up, and an angry looking bruise in the perfect shape of a heart on the tricep area.
I bruise slowly and it was the next day before it was seen (by my wife).
Luckily, it stayed around until the following weeks practice

Gives a new meaning to Love Tap


Max

Yeah this turned into a chorus of "Felix loves me this I know, for my bruises tell me so"

Oh, and that finger looks terrible

Not a pic of my bruises .. had some beauts as gravity kicked in and the bruise 'drifted down my arms ... but I'll offer up one of a bud's and the story behind it.

Pennsic XXXII. Woods battle (Tuesday I believe) .. Pic taken on the Saturday we were heading home. Last few seconds of the battle. Sgt. Renaude (the victim) went for one of the flags ... His Grace, Duke Darius of the East took umbrage at such a brazen act and struck out .. (in truth I believe he caught the movement out of the corner of his eye and did a beautiful snap where the physics are just about perfect) ... and thus the resulting bruise on Sgt. Renaude's shoulder ... thru steel spaulders ... and the padded gambeson below ... and the picture being roughly 4 days after the blow.

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/iain/Renaude_v_Darius.jpg[/img]