The Armour Archive

Greetings,
I just had a question about how people attach the foam pole weapon heads that By My Hand sells to the haft. I have the leather pieces that came with them and I remember that I was told but I am unsure what kind of glue to use or whether strapping tape is sufficient to hold them on the rattan.

Thanks
Kenric, East

Hi,

so far, I've built one weapon with the 2-part pollaxe kit. Attachment was done using strapping tape exclusively. Held up well so far.

William

I think the need for glue depends on the ratio of striking surface to blade "back"--the part that actually attaches to rattan.

On an english bill, you'll be fine with just tape. On my norman axe, I glued it up like crazy.
[img]http://mk23.image.pbase.com/o4/27/282227/1/53277617.IMG_8819_P34_720niy.jpg[/img]

I think I used epoxy. The fact that I don't recall should tell you that it has lasted several years of occasional use.

I taped the shiznit out of mine with strapping tape...
Then padded em and duct taped em up.

I 've got both pollaxes a glave and i made Harald a proper viking axe.

Drachus has the swiss halberd

btw does anyone else find it lame that you have to pad a rubber head but i can pound on you witha 3 inch thick 6 ft greatsword with no padding all day long?

I have the halbard & I used glue & tape.

Murdock I completely agree. I also believe thats its silly that we aren't allowed to half-sword here, yet.

yo can half sword all day long

just take off the quillions and call it a nagamaki

same technique same size ect ect

Murdock wrote:yo can half sword all day long

just take off the quillions and call it a nagamaki

same technique same size ect ect

We dont allow those here yet. (Thank god) As far as removing the cross of my sword, no thanks I use it.

btw does anyone else find it lame that you have to pad a rubber head but i can pound on you witha 3 inch thick 6 ft greatsword with no padding all day long?

Yes, I do.
It's dumb, I tell you...DUMB!

I used "Shoe Goo" to attach the By My Hand pieces of my Italian Bill to the closed-cell foam I'm using as my padding, then used beau coup strapping tape to anchor it all to my rattan. Nice glossy white duct tape, then salt and pepper to taste.

Bon appetit! Love the shield hook!

We dont allow those here yet. (Thank god) As far as removing the cross of my sword, no thanks I use it.

Really? Thats where i forst saw em.

Soon as the handle length restriction got lifted on geatswords in meridies.

6 ft stick 2 and a half foot handle tsuaba and a 3 and a half foot blade.

Murdock wrote:yo can half sword all day long

just take off the quillions and call it a nagamaki

same technique same size ect ect

The word for the day is "estoc".

Murdock wrote:just take off the quillions and call it a nagamaki

OK...I'm not sure what a nagamaki is.

negimyaki is a beef and scallion roll

Naga is a FRP serpent woman monster

maki is hand rolled sushi

naginata is a japanese slashing weapon very useful for killing the unarmored.

Pole Axe or Hache would be the term for later period long-hafted weapons used for killing armored opponents. They handle rather differently from naginatas. They actually have significant weight in their heads. To simulate that, a padded polearm is required.

Sir Corby,

It's this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagamaki

I use one, it makes a nice combination of greatsword and pole. lots of handle for getting in close, plenty of blade for hitting things when you're there.

Sir Kenrick,
Shoe Goo or Gorilla Glue are the way to go to attach the head to the rattan.

Wow. Wacky.

Can anyone else think of a weapon with the same name as an appetizer?

I notice these were, even in period, quite rare according to wikipedia.

I don't see any notes in that article explaining whether these were weapons designed for japanese war (= some armored opponents) as opposed to walking around (=no armor).

Though my intuition about its limited popularity tells me that it was just plainly a pain in the butt to carry around.

Just a reminder, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. We might want to find a couple of other sources. This could (unlikely) be the work of one imaginative individual. I am not meant to imply this is a fraud, just a friendly reminder about Wikipedia.

I've got a few books that list them.

Murdock wrote:We dont allow those here yet. (Thank god) As far as removing the cross of my sword, no thanks I use it.

Really? Thats where i forst saw em.

Soon as the handle length restriction got lifted on geatswords in meridies.

6 ft stick 2 and a half foot handle tsuaba and a 3 and a half foot blade.

That was Meridies, we did change a few of our combat rules. Hopefully those won't change back.

Corby de la Flamme wrote:Wow. Wacky.

Can anyone else think of a weapon with the same name as an appetizer?

I notice these were, even in period, quite rare according to wikipedia.

I don't see any notes in that article explaining whether these were weapons designed for japanese war (= some armored opponents) as opposed to walking around (=no armor).

Though my intuition about its limited popularity tells me that it was just plainly a pain in the butt to carry around.

Nagamaki were real, and used in armored combat; it's rarity is a relative thing. They were probably about as rare on a given battlefield as a tetsubo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetsubo), an odachi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odachi or an ono (double-bitted battle axe) and all were probably more common in earlier periods, before warfare got more organized and unit weaponry became more regimented in Japan.

It is my understanding that subsequent to the 1700's due to the lack of large field battles a lot of naginata were cut down and remounted as wakazashi(shortswords) and nagamaki cut down to katana.

OswynHaddock wrote:Just a reminder, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. We might want to find a couple of other sources. This could (unlikely) be the work of one imaginative individual. I am not meant to imply this is a fraud, just a friendly reminder about Wikipedia.

OK a good source for information about Japanese polearms is Roald Knutsen's works, there is one published in the 60s which is rare, and he published a second some years ago.

JAPANESE SPEARS (ISBN: 1901903567)
Knutsen, Roald

Is generally available, the first is not for sale anywhere, try a large research library.

Knutsen is and was seminal in British kendo post WWII.

Steve

Dear Kennrik- if you have a lether piece with it you have one of the axes. Get your haft ready. Wet the leather enough so that it will easily wrap around the haft and lay against the head. Clamp it in place and set it aside to dry. Once dry choose a glue. Something with a flexible bond is good. Epoxy may flake. Shoe Goo, Liquid Nails, contact cement if you are sure of eye and hand (you get one shot at it!). Glue the cheeks of the leather to the cheeks of the axe and clamp. Allow to cure. use the little head and tail of the leather "butterfly" as taping points. Bind them to the haft and continue to tape the blade edge into the haft also. Pad the edge, cover in duct tape, go hit friends. Caution- several users of the foam axes have reported that they were able to significantly lower the amount of force that the were using to get opponents to accept a blow as "good" or "telling". The force transfer is a bit higher and quicker. Duke Conn commented about a blow to his leg that it felt more like a great sword shot. This was from a 54" small headed weapon with 3/4"+ of kickboard foam on the edge.

And thank all of you that have adopted these! It is a real pleasure to see my work on the field and helping to change the way that we fight for the better.

From what I understand the nagamaki (long wrap) came about when they gave the front line soldiers swords with longer handles for better leverage. Sometime around the Mongol invasions if I recall correctly. I cant find where I read that but I seem to remember reading it somewhere.

I am finding that my pole axe is not registering hits nearly as well as I would like, several times last weekend I connected solid blade oriented cuts on my opponents and they were not taken. People here have forgotten how to fight against padded weapons. And I am not hitting as hard as Duke Visivald.

Granted the pole axe has no leather in it and is relatively light.

I do really enjoy the tools the blade shapes give me in manipulating my opponents weapon. That worked to my benefit several times.

I may rebuild the head and add leather to the sides to give the head a touch more mass. Clackers have also been suggested.

Corby de la Flamme wrote:I think the need for glue depends on the ratio of striking surface to blade "back"--the part that actually attaches to rattan.
On an english bill, you'll be fine with just tape. On my norman axe, I glued it up like crazy.
I think I used epoxy. The fact that I don't recall should tell you that it has lasted several years of occasional use.

Err, wouldn't this count as lamination (with the epoxy glue I mean).

Hrolfr wrote: Err, wouldn't this count as lamination (with the epoxy glue I mean).

Only if you glue another piece of rattan to it...

Hrolfr wrote:

Corby de la Flamme wrote:I think the need for glue depends on the ratio of striking surface to blade "back"--the part that actually attaches to rattan.
On an english bill, you'll be fine with just tape. On my norman axe, I glued it up like crazy.
I think I used epoxy. The fact that I don't recall should tell you that it has lasted several years of occasional use.

Err, wouldn't this count as lamination (with the epoxy glue I mean).

Nope. In fact there appears to be no Society level prohibition against laminated blades. It is a no-no in the Middle and specifically affects swords as written. It may be time to produce a laminated pole arm and see if that will pass. Where else is this forbidden?

Captain Jamie

Captain Jamie

Thaddeus wrote:I am finding that my pole axe is not registering hits nearly as well as I would like, several times last weekend I connected solid blade oriented cuts on my opponents and they were not taken. People here have forgotten how to fight against padded weapons. And I am not hitting as hard as Duke Visivald.

Granted the pole axe has no leather in it and is relatively light.

I do really enjoy the tools the blade shapes give me in manipulating my opponents weapon. That worked to my benefit several times.

I may rebuild the head and add leather to the sides to give the head a touch more mass. Clackers have also been suggested.

Wow. Did the after action talk with your opponents reveal anything? A cuirboilli clacker may be what you need. It may produce some strange result in interkingdom events though. I know that if I hear a clack and see a headed polearm being recovered from the region of my head I am going to think "Haft! Oh thank goodness, thank goodness, thank goodness!" and try to kill the wielder. It should have gone " thud!" and moved my head a bit. That has got to be the thing that I hate most about the use of unpadded poles- not being able to judge if I was hit by the cutting edge, the haft, or the flat. Against the majority of sword guys I can tell because they are close enough that I can see their hands and the blade orientation. A polearm, especially in melee, can strike from so far away and from behind others that none of that information is available. Consequently I think of unheaded polearms as "lying weapons". I have noticed some of the less than chivalrous crowd praising them for just that reason...

Captain Jamie

In one bout I hit my opponent and moved his head and he sprung up with a look like "what was that!?!" so I said padded pole - and he was fine with it.
In the finals I hit my opponent and he didnt respond, I wasnt sure that my blow was clean and forceful - I was HOPING he would take it, but he may have just been ducking out of it. His answer to my attack left NO doubt in my head that I had been struck. I dont remember it but apparently I saluted him as I fell down. I didn't really question the shot he didnt take as it just didnt seem particularly important.

We stopped playing with padded pole arms as the standard here in the east quite a while ago. So there are a couple of generations of fighters who have never or only very rarely faced one and arent the hits feel very wierd to them and they get that big question mark look.
I like the suggestion of cuirbolli I may try that.

Hrolfr wrote:

Corby de la Flamme wrote:I think the need for glue depends on the ratio of striking surface to blade "back"--the part that actually attaches to rattan.
On an english bill, you'll be fine with just tape. On my norman axe, I glued it up like crazy.
I think I used epoxy. The fact that I don't recall should tell you that it has lasted several years of occasional use.

Err, wouldn't this count as lamination (with the epoxy glue I mean).

No. Leather glued to rattan is not a lamination.

Or start a one-man training campaign. If you are in a tourney ask your opponent if he has experience with padded poles. If the answer is no offer to calibrate with him and give him a couple of telling blows to head and body. Ask if he has sufficient data to go on. If the answer is yes continue, if no calibrate it more.

I asked to be calibrated the first time I faced the new Brian Price bec de corbin head.

Captain Jamie

Corby de la Flamme wrote:

Hrolfr wrote:

Corby de la Flamme wrote:I think the need for glue depends on the ratio of striking surface to blade "back"--the part that actually attaches to rattan.
On an english bill, you'll be fine with just tape. On my norman axe, I glued it up like crazy.
I think I used epoxy. The fact that I don't recall should tell you that it has lasted several years of occasional use.

Err, wouldn't this count as lamination (with the epoxy glue I mean).

No. Leather glued to rattan is not a lamination.

Thanks. btw nice picture of you fighting Sir Lucien.