The Armour Archive

Does your kingdom have a Tournement of Chivalry, or some other event designed for the unbelts to test themselves against the Order, or even, themselves?

The Midrealm does. It's a great deal of fun to watch, I look forward to being able to participate in one.

We took the idea from the Middle.

Not at this time, but we have had similar events in the past, but not in several years.

Kind of been paying attention to what you guys did last year, and what the Middle have done for awhile, and I think its a very good idea, and might be something we need to think about organizing.

We do not have one as you describe, but we do have an annual Unbelted Tourney, where only the unbelts compete, and the knights marshal & fight pick-ups.

Once upon a time in the East, an event was held where the un-belts could challenge the Chivalry. I do not know why such an event was not repeated.

Mord.

yes

it was cool

For you maybe.

For me, it sucked.

Anyway, we didn't steal it from the Mid, we rather inherited it.

The East does not. The closest the East comes is a series of regular unbelted vs chiv melee practices as part of the unbelted team training.

I wish there was. I'm more of a "deed of arms" participant rather then a "veins in the teeth brawl/melee" combatant and would enjoy it quite a bit.

Sean

If that is the only form we have in the East then its a shame, not all want to be on the unbelts team.

"Once upon a time in the East, an event was held where the un-belts could challenge the Chivalry. I do not know why such an event was not repeated.

Mord. "

Mord,
That is because the East kingdom has become a tool of Pennsic, we have War camps and Champion tourneys and screw anything involving Chivalry.

Ronald

Sums it up pretty well Duke Wilmont.

I guess it's time in the East for OTHER people to step up and run tournaments....

They are only going to happen if people run them... If you dont like what is being done, then do it yourself

Dont complain about things you have the power to change

wilmot wrote:That is because the East kingdom has become a tool of Pennsic, we have War camps and Champion tourneys and screw anything involving Chivalry.

Ronald

You are right, and it's a bummer.

-Tasha

raito wrote:Anyway, we didn't steal it from the Mid, we rather inherited it.

Well put, Excellency!

I have not been able to participate in the ToC for a couple years, which I soon shall rectify

Personally, I enjoyed the chance to test my skills (and usually get thrashed) by the Chiv. I have also come away with no small amount of information to help improve my skills.

"Dont complain about things you have the power to change"

I have tried over a period of many years but this knigdom is a slave to Pennsic and hell bent on training fodder rather than knights.

Ronald

I do agree that the emphasis of training in the East is on Pennsic but there are quite a few tourneys out there. Yes, they are mostly the generic SCA double elim tourney, unfortunatly. I even know people who will only fight in melees....

What can we do to have chivalric tourneys again?

In my oppinion, hold them. If people have a good time with them, then they will want to do more. The more they are held, the more people will do them, making them both popular and "cool" again.

Give it a little time. It will cycle that way again...

In my oppinion, hold them. If people have a good time with them, then they will want to do more. The more they are held, the more people will do them, making them both popular and "cool" again.

There is a slight resurgance in tourneys- the VH Winter Wolf being the only new become what could be called "established" in recent memory by virtue of being held for 3yrs going now. Duke Darius sponsored a tourney this winter as well and Duke Andres is planing one for later this spring. Unfortunately though, most weeknds from March through August are eaten up by war related practices of Champions events. This, coupled with the East embracing the "this is a modern sport" attitude to a greater extent than any other Kingdom I'm aquainted with makes touneys with more than a passing nod toward medievalism unlikely.

Really there's no reason that War Practices couldn't incorporate more of a medieval approach except that anything that takes time away from a sandlot football approach to the 'game' seems to be viewed as counter productive by the people in charge.

"Give it a little time. It will cycle that way again... "

I have given it 22 years and it gets worse every year, we have commanders meetings in November, unbelted champions practices in December, it would be very funny if it was not so sad. I hate Pennsic more each year.

Ronald

An-Tir has "Squires Tourneis" at virtually every major event.
All the squires (or squires for a day) get thrown into a meat grinder eric. Report wins and losses. Usually two 30 minute halfs. Three prizes - one for most fights (55-75 to win usually), one for most wins(40-60 to win usually), and one for chivalry voted on by the knights and the list table.
The knights circle the field, watching and fighting any who challenge them. The kights that aren't fighting are watching, talking about those who are.

wilmot wrote:"Dont complain about things you have the power to change"

I have tried over a period of many years but this knigdom is a slave to Pennsic and hell bent on training fodder rather than knights.

Ronald

What His Grace has tried to do over the many years is easier said than done. I enjoy fighting in tournaments, even if I'm better at being in a shield-wall. "Being in a shield-wall" can easily become "a job" which is to say no fun. Tournaments are much more fun.

Mord.

Greetings,
I do not wish to derail this thread anymore than I have. I hope those from the East Kingdom who have read my posts will take them to heart but I think as long as the East is a main part of Pennsic and we have the same people in charge we are doomed to producing poorly trained and armoured peasants that will not stick around because it is not fun being fodder.

Ronald

I'm the event steward for an event in May, Panteria XII (Hardwick, VT) - a large camping event. The fighting schedule is fairly open - this ToC sounds like an interesting idea.

I know nothing about it - and would need marshals - but we have the space and the time.

Anyone interested?

If so - where are some great resources, etc, to see what I'd need to put together to help it happen?

Tiberivs

actually,

We have one every 6 months...... It's called crown The unbelt tourne, that Blaine mentioned, we have once a year we let the unbelts duke it out and then after the list goes down a little bit the knights get to do pick ups, it can, and has turned into a long day we also have the Chiv Vs the queens guard at queens champion, this happens after coronation, (the next day) Melee usually 15-20 per side, best 2 outa 3 usually.

rhys wrote:actually, We have one every 6 months...... It's called crown

Sir Rhys raises an interesting point. Caid has a custom that I'm not sure exists elsewhere. For the first round of every Crown, and most Queen's Champions, all the knights line up on one side and all the unbelts on the other; the unbelts then each challenge a knight for their first round fight. Since it is usually the case that the unbelts outnumber the knights, a few are asked to step over to the other side, which we consider a fairly high, though purely informal, honor.

Blaine,
The West kingdom has the same deal for crown.

Ronald

Ansteorra used to have an event called squires and cadets, but no longer. It was apparently a fairly difficult event for the squires, testing their fighting, gamesmanship, and knowledge of the arts. I never made it to one (8+ hours away) before they stopped having them.

Perhaps they might be had again.

JP

Aethelmearc has "Gold Chain" events (much the same as the ToC's) but they are few and far between.

I think the big stumbling block is finding the chiv who want to come out for them.

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:It was apparently a fairly difficult event for the squires, testing their fighting, gamesmanship, and knowledge of the arts.

They cancelled it because of this? Sounds like a great event to me.

Yeah!
I'l LOVE to be a part of something like this.

The Warriors of History Tourney came out of a desire to have a Martial meets A&S tourney.

Blaine de Navarre wrote:

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:It was apparently a fairly difficult event for the squires, testing their fighting, gamesmanship, and knowledge of the arts.

They cancelled it because of this? Sounds like a great event to me.

SuGyong wrote:Aethelmearc has "Gold Chain" events (much the same as the ToC's) but they are few and far between.

I think the big stumbling block is finding the chiv who want to come out for them.

Not exactly true.

Its more to the point, of chiv in whatever area, just are not taking the initiative, to making an event in their area a Gold Chain event.

Then again, when the idea was made and passed, maybe only 1/4th of the knights were present, so who knows.

Biggest reason I see, why this has not become a big thing, is no one is advertising it. Granted, I know Havoc has tried to get one out at their event a few times, and have got a few knights to come out to it. And he has advertised. But other than that, if there is one, you barely hear about it till after the fact.

It was a great idea we had, but we kind of let it flounder around, and have not done much with it, and that needs to be addressed.

I hope those from the East Kingdom who have read my posts will take them to heart but I think as long as the East is a main part of Pennsic and we have the same people in charge we are doomed to producing poorly trained and armoured peasants that will not stick around because it is not fun being fodder.

My suggestion would be to change pennsic- All it would take would be 2 sleeper agents, one in the Mid, and one in the East- Then let the battles sides be agreed on as:

Side 1: The east and the Mid
Side 2: everyone else.

After a couple years of that, the "fodder cuz we need pride" would leach away (at least I think it would)

-+G

Blaine de Navarre wrote:

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:It was apparently a fairly difficult event for the squires, testing their fighting, gamesmanship, and knowledge of the arts.

They cancelled it because of this? Sounds like a great event to me.

I'm not certain why the canceled it. Perhaps Richard or Ulsted might have some insight, as I never made it down to one before they stopped them.

JP

"My suggestion would be to change pennsic- All it would take would be 2 sleeper agents, one in the Mid, and one in the East- Then let the battles sides be agreed on as:

Side 1: The east and the Mid
Side 2: everyone else.

After a couple years of that, the "fodder cuz we need pride" would leach away (at least I think it would)

-+G "

If I could convince my wife that I could pull it off I would do my best to win Fall crown and make it happen. The problem with how Pennsic is now that the king's of the East and Middle (for Pennsic) are the "bitches" of the rest of the known world as in they have to sometimes at a very high cost try and get the other kingdoms to fight with them. They can not devote the needed time to running there kingdoms as they have to spend a great deal of time and expense getting allies.

Ronald

Your Grace,

I agree that we do not have enough Singles Tourney’s within our Realm. In an effort to change that, I and my Barony have hosted a series of Tournaments in the Barony of the Bridge the past couple of years. There are three Tournaments each Year, one for Chivalry only, one for Squires only & one for everyone else. This year we will be hosting “Lucan’s Ducal Challenge and Blue Tyger Tavern (9-14,9-15,9-16)â€