The Armour Archive

Guys,

I have a buddy that is storing his new sword with me for a year. It came with a nice leather scabbard. It's unlined.

Leather has oil in it, and it's the wrong kind of oil.

So, the sword is going to be stored in a cardboard box, under the guest bed, next to the scabbard in the box.

But I still need to protect the steel from oxidation and other kind of steel vs the universe issues. My first thought is to coat the metal parts with Kosmoline, but I don't have any.

Is there a better way to protect the steel?

Is there a commercially available substitute for cosmoline?

f

Here ya go Freiman,

the stuff is called RIG

its the civilian version of Cosmoline

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... mid=567717


The stuff works great for long term storage of weapons and if ya wrap it in a rag soaked with the stuff it will last even longer.

hope it helps

Elias

Freiman,

This is a Blue Bird question. The answer is so close to you it is not funny. You are in an Army base as I understand.

Take:

1) Ballistol. ( http://www.ballistol.de/index.php?page=Startseite )

(BALLISTOL is widely used in the precision gauge and tool industry and in the production of scales and other precision instruments. BALLISTOL provides a protective alkaline film on the surface of metals, neutralises hand sweat and other acid corrosive residues so that the surface is protected of corrosion. Due to its low surface tension, it is capable of creeping into the tiniest cracks and fissures of metal surfaces. It cleans and makes silver and brass shiny. Brilliant for the upkeep of tools and instruments in the field of precision mechanics. )


2) Saran wrap or clear food plastic wrap. Thicker type is better, but any type will do.


Remove all traces of the existing oil with a good degreaser. Clean degreaser.

Take the sword from the scabbard. Open the saran wrap with enough lenght to wrap the blade lenghtwise. (not in spiral)

Spray ballistol generously on top of the saran wrap. Spray ballistol on the blade, coat the blade with your fingers, ensuring the whole blade is covered with no uncovered spots.

Place the sword on the saran wrap, so that the blade is on 1/3 of the width of the saran wrap. Wrap the film around the blade ensuring that there remains a thin coating of ballistol between (it should happen by itself) fold the tip so it is not exposed. Place rubber bands at intervals to ensure the wrap is snug aroung the blade.

You are done. Place the sword in a dry place.

Check in 6 months to ensure it is not dried up (it should be ok)

I have kept blades pristine like that for a loong time. Moreover, the long contact with the ballistol sort of cleaned the blade, so that a simple wiping was all that was needed when removing from storage.

Hope this helps.

Rowan of Nedwood

Rowan, this is what I was looking for.

Thank you.

I have a few questions. I could send them to Balistol, and I actually probably will, but you are handy. I hope you don't mind answering them.

Rowan of Needwood wrote:Freiman,

This is a Blue Bird question. The answer is so close to you it is not funny. You are in an Army base as I understand.

Take:

1) Ballistol. ( http://www.ballistol.de/index.php?page=Startseite )

(BALLISTOL is widely used in the precision gauge and tool industry and in the production of scales and other precision instruments. BALLISTOL provides a protective alkaline film on the surface of metals, neutralises hand sweat and other acid corrosive residues so that the surface is protected of corrosion. Due to its low surface tension, it is capable of creeping into the tiniest cracks and fissures of metal surfaces. It cleans and makes silver and brass shiny. Brilliant for the upkeep of tools and instruments in the field of precision mechanics. )

The Balistol site seems to show two different things but then it says "Same great product, different lables". This indicates that both those things (Balistol Lube and Balistol Sportsman's oil) are the same things. I know that this sounds really stupid, but I want to make sure I have it right. They are indeed the same thing, right? I can order either one for this application?

Rowan of Needwood wrote:2) Saran wrap or clear food plastic wrap. Thicker type is better, but any type will do.

Remove all traces of the existing oil with a good degreaser. Clean degreaser.

Would automotive brake cleaner or carb cleaner do for a degreaser? I don't think that I have ever used a degreaser. Usually I use soap and water to take grease off of things.

Rowan of Needwood wrote:
Take the sword from the scabbard. Open the saran wrap with enough lenght to wrap the blade lenghtwise. (not in spiral)

Spray ballistol generously on top of the saran wrap. Spray ballistol on the blade, coat the blade with your fingers, ensuring the whole blade is covered with no uncovered spots.

Place the sword on the saran wrap, so that the blade is on 1/3 of the width of the saran wrap. Wrap the film around the blade ensuring that there remains a thin coating of ballistol between (it should happen by itself) fold the tip so it is not exposed. Place rubber bands at intervals to ensure the wrap is snug aroung the blade.

One more question, please. What do I do about the leather grip? Would the Balistol damage the grip? The sword comes with an inset hex head nut holding the pommel on, and I could take the thing apart. For some reason, I am hesitant to do that. I could store all the steel parts in one box, and put the grip in a ziplock baggie and store it in the same box. Should I store the grip (leather) with some sort of dessicant? Would dried rice work for a dessicant, or should I run to the clothing and sales store for something?

I think that the sword is going into an appropriately sized cardboard box and it's going to be stored under our guest bed. Anything wrong with that?

Rowan of Needwood wrote:You are done. Place the sword in a dry place.

Check in 6 months to ensure it is not dried up (it should be ok)

I have kept blades pristine like that for a loong time. Moreover, the long contact with the ballistol sort of cleaned the blade, so that a simple wiping was all that was needed when removing from storage.

Hope this helps.

Rowan of Nedwood

It certainly does. I will have to be taking the sword and scabbard out at some point. I have decided that the sword needs a carrying case, and I am just the guy to build it. It's a surprise. I think that I can tell you guys about it in confidence, because my buddy, in pre deployment, has much less time on line lately than your average convict.

and thanks.

f

Freiman,

As best as I can:

1) Any decent degreaser designed for machinery that will not damage the hilt and grip will work. The trick is removing it carefully at the end. If there is a bit of grease left, it is ok, the Ballistol will remove it/blend with it, as long as there is not a lot of it left.

2) The Lube and the Sportsman oil are the same. I have not found any difference in using either. I love the stuff because it works.

3) I would NOT put rice with the grip. Rice attracts not only moisture but mice as well, besides breaking up and getting into the little holes of the grip. Ballistol is actually awesome with leather, but if used excesively it will darken said leather, especially suede type. I would not use it if the grip is split leather or suede. it should be fine by itself.

The grip is not really going to rust, but the leather could get mouldy. If the grip is full grain leather, I would just wipe the handle and grip LIGHTLY, VERY LIGHTY (as opposed to the smothering of the blade) with ballistol, wipe off with one of those soft yellow flannel rubbing rags, and then use the same yellow flannel to wrap the grip loosely, maybe tie it loosely with scotch tape or string.

As for the box and box location. When not is use or carry, I keep my swords just wiped with ballistol -no saran wrap- inside of a plastic gun case. If the owner can find a way to get some ballistol inside of the scabbard (as in making a balsa-wood copy of the blade impregnating it with ballistol and then getting it inside) it works as well.
[note: I have read that there are remnants of wool lining in some historical sword scabbards. The natural Lanolin of the wool would have worked as a preservative]

Under the bed is fine if it is dry. AFTER you wrap the sword as above, You can go in the PX and buy one of those mil-spec dissecant packs designed for long-gun storage and put it in the box.

The nice thing about ballistol is that it emulsifies with any moisture around it (as opposing to separating like other oils) and it protects from corrosion even when mixed with water...

This stuff is well known in the Blackpowder community, where fine steel is exposed to nasty, corrosive stuff and needs good cleaning.

Hope this helps. If you have more questions, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Rowan of Needwood

PS:
From the website: History of the stuff:
How BALLISTOL came into existence
In 1874 Friedrich Wilhelm Klever, a lawyer interested in the field of economy, founded the F.W. Klever Chemical Plant in Cologne, Germany. He began producing oils and fats on the basis of coal. To be independent of the delivery of raw materials, he bought a coal mine.Around the turn of the 20th century the imperial army was in need of a universal oil, which was not only suitable for maintaining the metal parts of guns but also for the upkeep and preservation of wooden stocks and leather gear. Simultaneously, it had to serve the soldiers as a wound oil for minor injuries, lacerations and bruises.


It was Dr. Helmut Klever, then lecturer for chemistry at the Technical University of Karlsruhe and the son of the founder of the Chemical Plant, who succeeded in finding the formula for a special oil. He coined the name BALLISTOL by combining the technical term ballistics and the Latin word for oil oleum. Only after a short while BALLISTOL managed to establish itself as a "wonder oil" due to its incredible, often miraculous qualities. It was used by the German Army from 1905 to 1945. The brand name BALLISTOL survived all the historical turbulences of our century and became a standing expression, a technical term, for hunters, shooters, anglers and many more. It is not exaggerated to claim that BALLISTOL has become a synonym for quality and versatility

Dave,

I can send you all the Ballistol you will ever need. I have it in 10 Liter Jerry cans at the workshop, it is much cheaper that way. Call me and let me know what you need.

Sebastian

Question, I have an old US Calvary Saber, supposedly one used by the Rough Riders, that my grandfather had passed on to my uncle who then gave it to his teenage son..... I rescued it from my cousin, but unfortuiently, it is now covered with rust. It is not heavly rusted, but it is rusted... What would be the best way to remove the rust and not damage the blade itself?

Thanks in advance.

Tor,

do you have Pics? the level of rust sets the tone for any cleaning.

First though, ascertain the actual value, monetary and historical of the sword. If it is worth a LOT of money, touch it not and send it to a professional. You can call an auction house to find out a good restorer.

If this is not especially valuable or rare, and this is just to hang on a wall in your living room you can go on to the next part.

To the best of my knowledge:

1) Rule #1 thou shall never use any abrasive, sandpaper, file, anything that may remove actual material from the blade. Rule #2 thou shall not use a harsh chemical that may remove the patina of the blade.
Rule #3 light oils and lubricants are fine, but the steel is already rusted.
SO
I'd go again with the softest possible cloth and ballistol to stop the existing rust and remove any flakes, without scouring or chemical reduction.

At this point, with some luck the rusting process should be stopped (as well as it can be) by the ballistol, and any loose rust removed.

There are (according to Oakeshott) three types of rusting. Innies, outies and church display. It is important to see whether your sword has rusted into red or black oxide, and most importantly whether the rust has actually corroded significantly onto the blade, or it is cosmetic surface rust only. This would make cleaning much easier.

Iron oxide is water soluble, so you may want to consider making a 50-50 emulsion of water and ballistol to clean the sword. Water alone works too, but ballistol calms my nerves as it ensures I don't f it up. It makes for a safer recovery in case of a mistake.

If you can post pics we may be able to help you better. But the first part above is crucial.

Hope this helps

Rowan of Needwood

Tor Magnusson wrote:Question, I have an old US Calvary Saber, supposedly one used by the Rough Riders, that my grandfather had passed on to my uncle who then gave it to his teenage son..... I rescued it from my cousin, but unfortuiently, it is now covered with rust. It is not heavly rusted, but it is rusted... What would be the best way to remove the rust and not damage the blade itself?

Thanks in advance.

Rowan, I will snap some pictures and do some research on the blade and get back to you...

At your service, in whatever I may be able to help you.

Humbly,

Rowan of Needwood

Tor Magnusson wrote:Rowan, I will snap some pictures and do some research on the blade and get back to you...

BTW Ballistol comes in non-aerosol form as well, in cans that LOOK like aerosol cans but aren't.

I've got a whole big binder of info on the stuff that the distributor down in DC sent me some while back. Think he thought I wanted to become a distributor myself.

Although it's not approved for medical use Stateside, I've been known to apply some to scrapes and dry spots.

The only drawback I see with it is that my wife HATES the smell of it, but fortunately it dissipates pretty quickly.

Tor Magnusson wrote:Question, I have an old US Calvary Saber, supposedly one used by the Rough Riders, that my grandfather had passed on to my uncle who then gave it to his teenage son..... I rescued it from my cousin, but unfortuiently, it is now covered with rust. It is not heavly rusted, but it is rusted... What would be the best way to remove the rust and not damage the blade itself?

Thanks in advance.

spray with break free, wrap it in a rag, in a couple of days take the rag off, buff down the blade,and reapply.
Break free will clear any loose rust, adhere to any embedded rust, and prevent further deterioration of the metal.

http://www.copquest.com/65-1000.htm#Break-Free

Mordreth,

I was concerned with preserving any original patina they sword may have under the rust, so I suggested to start with the mildest treatment that was sort of guaranteed not to remove even that, just the rust.
Break free is awesome and I'd not hesitate to use it in a modern sword. But patina cannot be replaced.

I should try the break free as a backup for my mild steel plate armour, in case I miss spots after an event....

Respectfully,

Rowan of Needwood

="mordreth
spray with break free, wrap it in a rag, in a couple of days take the rag off, buff down the blade,and reapply.
Break free will clear any loose rust, adhere to any embedded rust, and prevent further deterioration of the metal.

http://www.copquest.com/65-1000.htm#Break-Free

Rowan of Needwood wrote:Mordreth,

I was concerned with preserving any original patina they sword may have under the rust, so I suggested to start with the mildest treatment that was sort of guaranteed not to remove even that, just the rust.
Break free is awesome and I'd not hesitate to use it in a modern sword. But patina cannot be replaced.

I should try the break free as a backup for my mild steel plate armour, in case I miss spots after an event....

Respectfully,

Rowan of Needwood

="mordreth
spray with break free, wrap it in a rag, in a couple of days take the rag off, buff down the blade,and reapply.
Break free will clear any loose rust, adhere to any embedded rust, and prevent further deterioration of the metal.

http://www.copquest.com/65-1000.htm#Break-Free

I didn't think it would clear any patina on the metal but you may very wel be right.
I used the stuff in the early 80's at old Fort Niagara at an 18th century event, I had a wiping rag in a deerskin pouch saturated with the highest tech lube I owned
It was raining, water was blowing off the lake constantly, and my musket looked cleaned and polished, everyone else's was developing rust spots as they watched.
Of course since I presented such a neat appearance I drew guard post

mordreth wrote:Of course since I presented such a neat appearance I drew guard post

Classic case of no good deed goes unpunished.