What patterns do people want to see in a pattern archive?

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Hey, welcome back. I've got a pattern for hourglass gauntlets, but they've got fingers, not mittens shaped like fingers.

[audax]

Hey, welcome back. I've got a pattern for hourglass gauntlets, but they've got fingers, not mittens shaped like fingers.

Thank you, kind sir.

I'd love to see your pattern. I'm most interested in the cuff and metacarpal. I can probably fake the fingers. Also I can weld now, getting my degree in metalsmithing courtesy of the VA.

[bigfredb]

Hey, welcome back. I've got a pattern for hourglass gauntlets, but they've got fingers, not mittens shaped like fingers.

Thank you, kind sir.

I'd love to see your pattern. I'm most interested in the cuff and metacarpal. I can probably fake the fingers. Also I can weld now, getting my degree in metalsmithing courtesy of the VA.

Ditto for me as well!

[Uryen]

As the original author of the Greathelm pattern on Arador some million years ago now. I can give permission for it to be republished here. From time to time, at events I see people wearing the design, and I am glad people have put it to use.
http://www.arador.com/construction/greathelm.html

I keep an updated PDF of the pattern here:
http://www.biscuitbuddies.org/?p=554

[Uryen]

On second thought.. I would be willing to do a completely new version. With instructional video for newbies.

[Konstantin the Red]

Refinements of form or method arrived at during the time since? That the idea?

[Chuklz]

I didn't get through all the replies yet, so my apologies if its a repeat question

Shield Construction:

Combat ready versions, and period reconstruction that's just pretty!

Style, round, heaters, kites, etc

Straps or center boss, different grips

which materials are best

What did you rim it with, how did you rim it?

AND Tips on what NOT to do!

[Kerry Pratt]

As I have told folks throughout the SCA known world. Every shield has its' strengths and weaknesses. Choose your shield by what matches your style and body or by what your persona would have used and learn how to use it as best you can. There are more fighters in the Outlands using center grip styles than any other so you may be able to pick up more tips with that style than others but there are many places to go on the net where you can learn tips for other styles. As far as making a shield goes, there have been tons of how-to and construction threads on shields on this forum that will cover it better and more thoroughly than I ever will again in an email. The search function is your best friend. After you have read a few of these then ask specific questions and we will gladly help to fill in personal preferences and the personal experiences with you. Good luck with your quest and well met.

[DWolfhunter]

A good leather bazuband pattern would be nice??

[Konstantin the Red]

Shield Construction:

Combat ready versions, and period reconstruction that's just pretty!

Any shield of enough thickness is a combat ready version. There are no actual shields made that are not. In wood, at least one half inch thick, like as not with a thickened edge of one more layer of wood, 1/4" more. Either straight across the top of the shield or all the way round and cut out in the center -- but across the top of a heater suffices. That band need be no more than five inches broad. Wooden shields last a lot longer faced and backed with glued fabric, say canvas dropcloth, glued down, painted white, and one's colors painted on it. Resilient edges can be hidden under that canvas layer (or layers) -- just pretty, all right! Two layers on the face and one on the back is a popular recipe. 1/8" luan ply/door skin is a fine, lightweight wooden edge reinforcer or tailor-made thickener of the plywood that is very easy to handle gluing it in. Always keep a little of that stuff around; it's handy.

which materials are best

There are two basic shield materials you want to use for large shields: stiff aluminum alloy sheet, usually a higher T number of 6061 precipitation hardening alloy (T5 and greater) and similarly of 7075. They built the Japanese Zero out of a midcentury edition of that alloy, back when they called it Extra Super Duralumin. T6 aluminum shields are extremely durable and last many years' fighting. After long service, they may eventually break off the most heavily used corner from metal fatigue. Some fighters have riveted replacement corners on, soldiering on with their old familiar, now Frankensteined, shield.

Covering shiny aluminum with canvas or leather disguises it and gives it more weight, causing a too-light shield to weigh comparably to a plywood shield. You want some weight in a shield so it can't be batted aside, and you don't want it so massive you can't maneuver it timely.

The deal with curving a T6 shield is big enough that you want shop machinery: a sliproller large enough to fit three feet and more of length through, and buying new means about a thousand bucks sunk in the tool. T6 temper resists getting bent pretty effectively; working it with a hammer means using a deadblow hammer, as it bounces hard hammers back at you with great enthusiasm. You're better off using lots and lots of leverage, not hitting. All this means a T6 shield blank involves spending some money to get one.

Plywood is basically the other material for usin' SCA shields, setting aside copying Viking roundshield finds where they made 'em of planed planks (this construction is generally not in use among SCAdians) -- either sawn out flat (crude, ill balanced, very hasty) or multiple layers of thin and flexible plywood sandwiched together with carpenters' glue and bent in the arc of a circle by means of a press or something -- including parking the car on it for a day and a half. Press it somewhat tighter curved than you want to end up with as it springs back a little, but shoot for a final depth of curvature of 3-4". Ply is a very good material for the home producer. So, ol' red-necked Squire Joe le Shmeau can keep chunkin' out working shields for about ever from his basement. Even if he lives in central Oklahoma where the weather is scary. (Scary weather might provide him with free salvaged materials. Guess it depends on if the tornado tracks through a lumberyard or not. Or repurposing the temporary board-up ply.)

Buckler materials vary more, since bucklers are small and light. Sheet steel may be found for these small shields.

What did you rim it with, how did you rim it?

This one is the most varied question. Hidden resilient rims are presently really cool! Old school edge reinforce was often aluminum flat stock -- miter-sawn for nice joins at the shield corners, and generally reused, plywood shield to plywood shield. Split-open automotive water hose shoved onto the edges has served for many years, is durable -- and is coming to be perceived as thoroughly amateur now. Buy it by the foot, available in a few assorted diameters, off a reel at a hardware or auto parts place. Small diameter rubber air hose, hidden under canvas or leather facing, makes a good durable resilient edge. Split as we often do, it fits well over the thinner sheet of the aluminum shield. Search this one, onsite. Tons of hits will tell you anything you need.

AND Tips on what NOT to do!

Well, don't cut your heater shield's chief into a pentroof shape: you need the corners up there to catch incoming easily. Straight across is just fine. Leather-strap soft grips for your enarmes are more comfortable than about any rigid handgrip. With either one, slant the handgrip a bit to accommodate how your fingers actually grasp something like a handle; think the slant of the pistol grip of an automatic -- not perpendicular to your forearm or it will strain your hand uncomfortably. Pad the forearm where it lies behind the heater shield. Don't construct a comprehensive-cover handgrip entirely from wood; it'll break pretty soon. Shed door pulls aren't very comfortable handgrips by themselves. Avoid building from very weathered, junky old plywood; it may be delaminating and will quickly go crunch.

[JGarrett]

Pauldrons, lots of pauldrons, maybe a few non-SCA gorgets.

[don]

If people are still looking at this post, personally, I like the idea of "how to re-size this pattern" idea. As was stated earlier, some of us don't have access to various tools/machines or for various reasons would rather have the metal distributor cut said pieces out.

Another point would be a "beginner fighter's" area where there are patterns as well as advice available as to safely getting on the field. (ie. what needs to be modified on a set of hockey/baseball chin pads to make them "legal" for use within the realm of SCA.)

Don

[Hartmann]

Would this include patterns for "soft" armour and under-armour garments?

[Ian Mac D]

Burgonet, Wisby #24 COP

+1 on the Burgonet!

[Mad Matt]

I'm making a burgeonet right now but the patterns probably wouldn't work for anyone but me. The other thing is I put a lot of work into making the patterns and made a lot of scrap metal figuring out how to get it to work right so if I were to share patterns it wouldn't be free.

[Motull_Rulav]

how about a beginners guide with simple projects, with VERY detailed instructions and how too. I had to learn alot by trial and error though, and using other peoples know how. Don't get me wrong some of my best times in the sca was banging metal and learning from other folks.

some patterns from other styles of armour, which the archive does have rather well

[coreythompsonhm]

how about a beginners guide with simple projects, with VERY detailed instructions and how too. I had to learn alot by trial and error though, and using other peoples know how. Don't get me wrong some of my best times in the sca was banging metal and learning from other folks.

some patterns from other styles of armour, which the archive does have rather well

Lucky you! This exists! Its called Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction, or TOMAR as its refered to on the AA, by Brian Price.

[Konstantin the Red]

Would this include patterns for "soft" armour and under-armour garments?

I think it darn well ought to -- or perhaps at least links, kept current, to either other sites with them or merchants selling them, which latter is rather beyond the scope of archiving patterns.

For we've come to the understanding that garments of the time were what the armor was designed to ride over. Big surprise, yes? And is not modern body armor designed to be worn over BDU and ACA uniforms? And with some eras of armor, what holds harness together is the foundational coat... the Fourteenth Century Mafiosi all shop at the same store.

Standalone gambesons would be easy things to organize the making of, quite perfectly period, quiet to work on, and stylish to wear with even a modest degree of tailoring-in-quarters. Fun for the Fifteenth Century Cult & Cabal anyway -- they are fewer than the Mafiosi. Though alas you don't get dirty, and don't usually cut or scorch yourself, making one -- so there's a down-score. Not yet thought of as quite macho, some things excepted (like gamboised cuisses for early-14th).

[Aussie Yeoman]

Y'know, just personally, I find TOMAR to be anything but the omniscient bible of everything to do with making armour. It misses a huge amount the newbie really needs, and I think the photos were deliberately taken to obscure them. So pictures of steel cut out cannot immediately be used as patterns.

We are told how to do many things, but other things we see done have no explanation.

His discussion of how to make the armour historically and anatomically accurate is sorely lacking (death to TOMAR spaudlers!), and some of it is plain wrong (cuisses are stronger if rolled instead of shaped throughout? I think not!)

Just sayin'.

It's like saying Ralph Payne-Gallwey's Crossbow book is the very best book there is on the subject. Well, it is, but that's because it's pretty much the *ONLY* book on the subject.

I don't mean to crap all over TOMAR, but I think people can get more, and better info by trawling through AA, and doing searches by username for people like Mac, Wade, Jiri, Juri and the other heavy hitters.

[Konstantin the Red]

Something to that... after all, what this site does is advance the art.

What could we do to devise pattern and method to make a really GOOD, Living History-accurate standalone 15th- and 16th-century cloth jack and put it together so it's convenient to look at? Presently we can mill through threads by Search and pick up a tip here and another there -- a long labor, sifting through the silt for the color. We've seen a try or two at cloth jacks that look more like Tweedledum and Tweedledee before the Battle than what we see in illuminations -- which did not look so stiff or thick. I'm thinking more in the cutting out and piecing together than in the hand-stitching with documentably authentic number of stitches per inch, per hand, or whatever the tailors' measure smaller than an ell, whatever the ell it was.

[coreythompsonhm]

I have to agree TOMAR is lacking in a lot of areas and some information is just straight up stupid. But is there a more complete and better book available at the moment? No. So until that changes, its still the go to book besides the other standard reference books for pictures of real extant armour.

The AA is way better, but takes a while to dig through at first. Still my favorite source of information.

Maybe how to articles would be a good start?

[Steerpike]

I've a deal of affection for the old "Basic Armouring" PDF by Paul Blackwell as a beginner's primer for the garage armourer: tools, materials, basic techniques and an assortment of projects (nice chapter on shield making), sorted by the body parts they cover, including one or two things you don't see every day (like a Chalkis brigandine, or a low-rise bevor that it's fairly easy to add a falling lame to the top of). Downside, it's a little dated and some of the projects are a bit clunky, "old-skool Scajun".
Maybe the AA could come up with a new, improved version, pulling together info and patterns from various contributors ; a "Best of The Hammer" for a new generation?

[Doughall McLeod]

I would like to see a pattern for a jack of plates or gamboissed cuisses

[Konstantin the Red]

Hi, Steerpike! -- Happy Gormenghastlies Day/All Hallows' Eve!

Sweet idea, that. There's much material of that nature already here -- the labor would come in compiling it all, there's only so much one wants to do in link-reffing previous threads when assembled articles might be so much more convenient.

[boris_]

A pattern for a corrazina would be fantastic.

[RandallMoffett]

I think that Mr. Nadler has one up somewhere he made recently for the BotN.

RPM

[St. George]

nice 14th century "archer's knees". I used to have that pattern from Valerius/Cad's shop. Would make my life easier and save material as I have to cut down knees I am eyeballing right now.

Gruber I know you have it!!!

St. G-

[Tibbie Croser]

Something to that... after all, what this site does is advance the art.

What could we do to devise pattern and method to make a really GOOD, Living History-accurate standalone 15th- and 16th-century cloth jack and put it together so it's convenient to look at? Presently we can mill through threads by Search and pick up a tip here and another there -- a long labor, sifting through the silt for the color. We've seen a try or two at cloth jacks that look more like Tweedledum and Tweedledee before the Battle than what we see in illuminations -- which did not look so stiff or thick. I'm thinking more in the cutting out and piecing together than in the hand-stitching with documentably authentic number of stitches per inch, per hand, or whatever the tailors' measure smaller than an ell, whatever the ell it was.

Regarding a 15th-century cloth jack, Master James de Biblesworth has a good description (with documentation) of his Wars of the Roses linen jack on his website (historiclife.com). He's on the Archive; perhaps ask him for the pattern?

[ManOnFire68]

I would love to see some patterns of more close helms. But patterns that use raising and no welding would be awesome. I favour the old school approaches. More breastplates!

[Aussie Yeoman]

I think a pattern for a close-helm that is raised and not welded is an enormous circle with a tail off one side.

[coreythompsonhm]

Exactly. Like how late 14th century pig face visors would be raised from a rectangle, or raised from a welded cone.

[Halberds]

I would like to see more patterns for the clam shell type mitten gauntlets.
Something for the newbies, simple, safe and functional.

Thank you.

Hal

[C. Gadda]

Churburg #13

A dogface bascinet Visor

Exactly. Like how late 14th century pig face visors would be raised from a rectangle, or raised from a welded cone.

+1 to both. Particularly interested at present for the Churburg 13.

[ManOnFire68]

It would be great to see patterns that use welding also have patterns for the same pieces that also use only raising.

[coreythompsonhm]

I think I was misunderstood. With raising, you start from basic shapes, like rectangles, circles, etc with enough material to allow you to raise the shapes you want, then trim the excess off. Raising is an art, way different process than dishing/welding. If someone wants to learn how to raise, the starting shape of the material is the least of their worries.

I've watched an armet get raised from a square, then trimmed. Not very economical, but it worked. just showed that no matter what shape the material is flat, as long as it has enough metal in the right areas, its completely feasible.