The Armour Archive

A lot of people had been asking us about shoes from periods Circa 700 - 900 , so here we go with this early period design.

Made from one piece of leather as shown in this reference page.

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-ca ... /SHOE1.HTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjTkMnzA3h0

Sizes: Mens: 6 - 15

Colors: Westland s 8 standard colors.

Leather thickness: 2.5 - 3.0 mm

AA members group sales Price : USD 35.00 / pair + Shipping USD 10.00 / Pair

COMMENTS AND CRITICISM FROM AA MEMBERS HELPED US A LOT TO DEVELOP THE EXACT REPLICA OF THESE IRISH SLIPPERS.

That model was never a turnshoe.

The pattern referenced shows a seam running around the top of the foot, almost a moccasin style of construction, and the entire shoe is made of a single piece of leather.

You've made an attractive shoe, I suppose, but nothing historic, and certainly not the shoe you reference.

It also shows a small tongue of leather on the tip of the toe to act as a gather or a dart, not a seperate attachment for decoration.

I can see why some folks like your offerings, but I don't think this piece will work for serious Irish reenactors.
I get the impression that since you didn't have the pattern explained in detail by another shoemaker, you made it up as you went and settled on a vague approximation.

is somebody feeling a little defensive?
i can understand pionting out historical accuracy, no problem there.
but the underlyig hostility?
are you losing business because of westland?
i know some other people here may be but that is the nature of commerce.
i like some of the items westland has offered.
and i still use other vendors for some things but should we ostricize him because he offeres decent products at very competitive rates?
i dont think so. ( my opinion)

Nope.

I'm not a vendor.

The shoe in this thread is completely wrong. You can tell, just look at the pattern.

Heck, there's a pic of this shoe in Dunlevy's "Dress in Ireland".
We know what it looked like.

That is all.

ok then if i misspoke i appologize,
i also just read uor post on the kaftan page right befor reading this one.
maybe i simply got the impression of hostility.

Understood.
Is there an overall suspicion on my part? Yes,... but this thread?

All I'm talkin' here is the shoe, man.

My other weirdo hang-ups have nothing to do with this shoe.

None of these shoes are exact replicas they just have the same outline just like the revival shoes. You don't get exact replicas for $35 unless you make them yourself

No, but I can get a lot closer with $70, which is what Westland charges for single pairs.

Hell, Bohemond has this model for $75, and it's done accurately.

I figure if Westland is gonna go through the trouble, he may as well get it right.

But hey, it's a low price tag, so no questions or criticsims, right?

Wow.

I'm done. You guys look at the pattern he himself posted and come to your own conclusions.

Most merchants sell historically compromised designs, buyer beware. Why so much scrutiny for him? Do you protest other merchants shoes that are using non historical stitching? You mentioned Bohemond, I don't see you complaining about his false bottoms, turn shoe or glued on rubber sole either way is a compromise to history.

I think you are being unfair calling one maker out and not the others.

But he is right. The design is wrong on this pair of shoes. It should have the top sewn like a moccasin.

I think in this case I'm going to have to agree that the shoes are too significantly different from the pattern. I like Westland's other stuff, and I have no problem with his business practices at this point, but this particular shoe seems really not representative of the original, while the others conform more to the general line and cut, in spite of having some modern allowances.

It doesn't really matter to me, because I have no interest in this style of shoe anyways, but they seem more wrong than say the caligae or viking shoes.

my 2 cents

EDIT: The new version is much more like what I see in the pattern. Well done!

Keegan Ingrassia wrote:But he is right. The design is wrong on this pair of shoes. It should have the top sewn like a moccasin.

I am not saying he isn't correct but why does he feel the need to point it out for him them mention Bohmond and not mention the compromises he uses.

If people want to know how correct the shoe is I suggest asking over on the historical threads instead of attacking merchants posting their wears in the classifieds.

Also recommending another merchant over them seems a bit out of line, should I point out there are even better merchants every time someone posts an item here. Levels of play vary and levels of accuracy vary among merchants, if you don't like his products don't buy them but to try and run him off seems way out of line to me.

OttawaClassicalSwordplay wrote:I think in this case I'm going to have to agree that the shoes are too significantly different from the pattern. I like Westland's other stuff, and I have no problem with his business practices at this point, but this particular shoe seems really not representative of the original, while the others conform more to the general line and cut, in spite of having some modern allowances.

I disagree this is more out of line than the others. Each compromises differently. I don't see this as any more removed from it's historical example than the 14th century boots are from its example.



I am sure he would be responsive to suggestions if you would like to see changes to the shoe.

Finnacan wrote:No, but I can get a lot closer with $70, which is what Westland charges for single pairs.

Hell, Bohemond has this model for $75, and it's done accurately.

I figure if Westland is gonna go through the trouble, he may as well get it right.

But hey, it's a low price tag, so no questions or criticsims, right?

Wow.

I'm done. You guys look at the pattern he himself posted and come to your own conclusions.

Like others, I agree with the inaccuracies of the description...but you could have said it with more decorum. Would it have not been better to politely point out the inaccuracies so that he could in turn describe his product correctly without feeling as though he were being attacked personally?
I do like his offerings and I feel that they are in par with what other vendors offer in style and quality, at a lower price. Are the offerings the be-all, end-all in historical accuracy - no - but if you are close enough to be able to pick it apart you better be buying me dinner and seriously flirting with me.

ADDENDUM - I just read your concerns ( See Kaftan thread) and the concerns of others that these items are being copied from already existing patterns available from other vendors, especially those who can troubleshoot issues "locally" and the like.

I totally dig what you are saying and, again, I agree with the concerns. But at the same time these are items made by a good amount of people with very little variation between them. Unless there is a copyright issue then there not much that can be done other than by you the consumer...by you being discerning enough to chose where to buy from your accoutrement from. It is your choice just as it's the choice of others to buy from Westland. At the end, what speaks volumes is quality. Whichever is made better while being more accurate wins...pure and simple. If Westland's stuff is seen to stand the test of use then ultimately is there an issue?

Vendors who feel slighted should have the right to speak up without people treating them like sore "losers", but at the same time should be willing to provide something more concrete than "It looks exactly like mine".

WESTLAND is happy to make this Irish slipper as shown in the reference page.

That is a drastic improvement and a beautiful shoe. i hope they sell like hotcakes!

OttawaClassicalSwordplay wrote:That is a drastic improvement and a beautiful shoe. i hope they sell like hotcakes!

OttawaClassicalSwordplay,

Thanks for your kind comments, Westland has an experience of 10 years in developing and producing historical Shoes.

We always work hard to develop products according to the requirements of reenactment community.

BUMP

W,
Please check your e-mail, just sent you one.

That is it.

You got it, that it is the Lucas Irish Slipper. It's a totally different creation from the first attempt, and your literal application of the Lucas pattern has made a very similar shoe to the one in "Dress in Ireland".

Well done.

BUMP