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Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:22 am
by CTrumbore
white mountain armoury wrote:Craig Nadler wrote:Armouries selling stuff below a price that would pay a living wage and going out of business with thousands of dollars of unfullfilled orders is nothing new. It has been happening over and over again for the 26 years that I've been invoiced in the SCA or making armour. People need to think beyond just price when deciding which armoury to do business with.
Truth !!
I charged more than many folks making SCA armour, but was more affordable than some others.
I stood behind my work, was always available to my customers and was rarely if ever late on an order.
I closed my shop because folks just stopped buying from me.
The cheaper option is not always the better option.
Welcome to the world of crafting.
There's always someone who only does it for shits and giggles, or is independantly wealthy and just wants to give stuff away, who will undercut you, perhaps unintentionally.
I had someone who wanted a pen that would have cost 40$ JUST IN MATERIALS, not even counting time and wear and tear, and wanted it for 15$ cause "they saw one just like it for that on Etsy once".
I've learned to look at people and say "sorry, can't do that. "
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:39 am
by Donngal
Adam and Nadler are 100% correct on that.
Donngal
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:37 pm
by CiaranBlackrune
Iacobos wrote:If what they do in real life is screw over their fellow SCAdians and scam them out of money over and over again while reigning as King of Caid and teaching a "school of chivalry"; then yes they do deserved to be punished within the society. His actions aren't unrelated to his membership in the SCA or his peerage, they aren't even tangentially related. They are directly related, he sells SCA ready gear to SCA fighters based on his reputation as a good craftsman and a talented SCA heavy fighter. The selling point behind every object he makes is that it is a top tier custom item made for SCA fighters who want to be the best. This isn't joe from Gleann Abhann selling cocaine or embezzling from his company. Even though I am positive that if someone was caught doing that and kicked out of the SCA no one would say anything despite the fact that those two crimes are unrelated to the SCA. Why and how can a Knight and the King of Caid be someone who uses his peerage to cheat other SCAdians out of their money and that be "unrelated to the SCA" but if someone who even occasionally sold drugs were to win crown everyone would lose their minds. Hell if a legal brothel owner won crown in Caid or the West kingdom people would shit a brick even though it's legal. This asshole cheats people out their money for years if not decades and uses the SCA to do it and somehow that's "unrelated"?
As I have said before... What wold you like me, knight of Caid, to do about it? Tell the king? He already knows. Spread the good word and tell people to not buy from him? Already do that. What do you want me/us to do? Don't forget that we have lives and don't have time to deal with shit like this. And some people don't care. At a certain point, there is nothing more we can do. It's up to the society to ban him.
Maybe the people on the backlist should all get together and beat his ass or something.
Also, I can tell you for a fact that if a legal brothel owner won crown in Caid, the brothel is where the party would be.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:54 pm
by Donngal
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:52 pm
by Steve S.
Also, I can tell you for a fact that if a legal brothel owner won crown in Caid, the brothel is where the party would be.
We can only hope.
Steve
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:41 pm
by Iacobos
Steve S. wrote:Also, I can tell you for a fact that if a legal brothel owner won crown in Caid, the brothel is where the party would be.
We can only hope.
Steve
Damn straight, Steve. Ciaran you are a Knight and a gentleman. I understand your frustration and please don't take my statements as an attack on you.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:58 pm
by Neria Discordia Scythia
I just want my money back. Its been almost 6 years at the top of his to do list. I don't even play anymore but I am still out 1500CND. If I could have afforded to sue cross the border I would have. I got suckered into believing that he would pull through. I'm tired, broke, and jaded with this whole game. I still hold on to the hope that someday he might even humour me by returning an email but I am not holding my breath anymore.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:04 pm
by Jareth
Heyo, it's been a couple of months since I've posted to this thread, just thought that I should offer an update: There has been no product delivery, updated schedule, response to e-mails or any other contact.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:52 pm
by Kilian_the_warlike
He has enough money to put into facebook advertising for his website. Just a note.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:56 pm
by WinterTreeCrafts
Guys, legal action, seriously. Stop enabling this nonsense.
He is a thief, plain and simple.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:54 pm
by Jonathan Mayshar
I'm not a SCAdian, but I love AA and feel close to you guys. If I were in CAID I would be getting every single person of standing to comment on the record about Brand and publish and distribute the results as widely as possible in the Kingdom. Those who won't comment get called out for that. In a society or community it is usually a small minority that do evil; and the greater evil is the majority that allows it to be done.
Looking from the outside, the damage to the Chivalry thing is huge.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:08 am
by WinterTreeCrafts
Some visits to his "School of Chivalry" to explain how their group head is upholding their ideals might be in order as well.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:52 am
by The Iron Dwarf
get something about his school in the local paper too
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:08 pm
by Joseph D
WinterTreeCrafts wrote:Guys, legal action, seriously. Stop enabling this nonsense.
He is a thief, plain and simple.
This ^^^ Get some names together and start some emails then go talk with a lawyer.......seriously. Nothing else is going to make anything happen.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:28 pm
by coreythompsonhm
Joseph D wrote:WinterTreeCrafts wrote:Guys, legal action, seriously. Stop enabling this nonsense.
He is a thief, plain and simple.
This ^^^ Get some names together and start some emails then go talk with a lawyer.......seriously. Nothing else is going to make anything happen.
Exactly. I don't have a fight in this as I have refused to buy anything from him, therefore not owed any money or items. If I did, I would be the guy to start the process.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:35 pm
by Jess
I think all the individuals who have been taken advantage of should, at a minimum, sit down and write a letter to the BoD with the details of your experiences. That isn't going to get you any financial recovery but it may get him R&Ded with sufficient documentation.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:36 pm
by Jess
I am confident the documentation would be voluminous, if a mere third of those who have been swindled would do it.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:38 pm
by Jess
Maybe I will draft a form letter and affidavit for easy use...
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:00 pm
by Riese Von Landsee
I doubt the BoD cares what a person does outside the SCA. I'm with Winter on this. Compile names and pool funds. Get someone who can file in the state he lives and go after him. If he claims bankruptcy then liquidate his shop assets.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:29 pm
by Ingvarr
I guarantee you if someone got a law office to threaten a lawsuit against the SCA because Brand uses his standing in the SCA to defraud people, as ridiculous as such an action would be, the Bod would have him gone in no time. Doesn't really matter, he has the BotN guys to rip off now.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:32 pm
by Iacobos
Thank you Ingvarr! A lawsuit against the SCA based on Brand's use of his standing in the SCA to defraud people would not win in court. However, I HIGHLY doubt that the BoD would waste money defending an obvious con man when they could easily kick him out and be rid of the lawsuit. I can't wait to see what the BotN guys do when he rips them off.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:42 pm
by coreythompsonhm
Honestly, a petition to the board of directors would be a better route than just jumping to a lawsuit. I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people that would sign it, enough so that it would really get the BoD's attention. If it doesn't then its time to have a lawyer involved.
I'm just leary of bringing lawsuits against the SCA when its not necessary. It turns into "Ok, how do we prevent that from happening again?"
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:45 pm
by Hrolfr
Personally, I would not want to mess with Jess
(she's a good fight
and a lawyer)
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:27 pm
by Iacobos
My mistake, Corey is correct. You would petition the BoD first then possibly a lawsuit. I really don't like the idea of a lawsuit myself. I just think the threat would help the BoD understand why this is a problem. I love the SCA and I feel that people who use their standing in the organization to harm others don't belong.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:10 am
by jamesedgarson
You know,...not that I would ever advocate criminality...but,...if this gentle has "ripped-off" this many folk, why not gather a,...oh, whats the word I'm looking for?..oh, yeah,...a MOB and the next event he attends and sets up shop, just appropriate his shop...everything....I'm no mathematician but I would reckon 30 folk walking into a shop and just taking all his stuff would be near impossible to stop.
Or you could go the legal route...I don't have a dog in this race however I feel for all of you who put good money down and apparently never saw it again.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:45 pm
by PatternWeld
He's let it be known he's going to have a BIIIG table at Estrella.... just sayin...
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:56 pm
by coreythompsonhm
Extra points for making it a viking raid.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:40 pm
by Iacobos
coreythompsonhm wrote:Extra points for making it a viking raid.
Oh corey you hit the nail on the head right there.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:34 am
by Craig Nadler
I'd like to point out that he was bared from the Armored Combat League (ACL). Now that the ACL has pulled out of the Battle of the Nations (BotN) event he is trying to put together is own team.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:35 am
by Baron Alcyoneus
jamesedgarson wrote:You know,...not that I would ever advocate criminality...but,...if this gentle has "ripped-off" this many folk, why not gather a,...oh, whats the word I'm looking for?..oh, yeah,...a MOB and the next event he attends and sets up shop, just appropriate his shop...everything....I'm no mathematician but I would reckon 30 folk walking into a shop and just taking all his stuff would be near impossible to stop.
How did that work out for OJ?
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:40 am
by jamesedgarson
Baron Alcyoneus,
...
well played sir, well played!...lol
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:21 pm
by Ingvarr
coreythompsonhm wrote:Honestly, a petition to the board of directors would be a better route than just jumping to a lawsuit. I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people that would sign it, enough so that it would really get the BoD's attention. If it doesn't then its time to have a lawyer involved.
I'm just leary of bringing lawsuits against the SCA when its not necessary. It turns into "Ok, how do we prevent that from happening again?"
I never said sue them. You just hire a paralegal to write a vague letter threatening a lawsuit on behalf of a group of unnamed people. That's all it takes. There is precedence.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:13 pm
by coreythompsonhm
Ingvarr wrote:coreythompsonhm wrote:Honestly, a petition to the board of directors would be a better route than just jumping to a lawsuit. I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people that would sign it, enough so that it would really get the BoD's attention. If it doesn't then its time to have a lawyer involved.
I'm just leary of bringing lawsuits against the SCA when its not necessary. It turns into "Ok, how do we prevent that from happening again?"
I never said sue them. You just hire a paralegal to write a vague letter threatening a lawsuit on behalf of a group of unnamed people. That's all it takes. There is precedence.
I should have read your post more closely, I think I skimmed over it and replied. I think a letter would work very nicely.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:57 pm
by Guy H.
Baron Alcyoneus wrote:jamesedgarson wrote:You know,...not that I would ever advocate criminality...but,...if this gentle has "ripped-off" this many folk, why not gather a,...oh, whats the word I'm looking for?..oh, yeah,...a MOB and the next event he attends and sets up shop, just appropriate his shop...everything....I'm no mathematician but I would reckon 30 folk walking into a shop and just taking all his stuff would be near impossible to stop.
How did that work out for OJ?
That's not what OJ did though. He wen on a bs "sting" raid with weapons etc. The scenario described here would be more like 30 ppl confronting a known thief in public and getting some merchandise back in lieu of refunds etc.
Re: Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:18 pm
by Iacobos
Actually, if they had their receipts or whatever with them and Brand had it in stock they could very well demand said item. I don't know for sure if they would have a legal recourse to do so. Any lawyers know the rules on that?