The Armour Archive

Dire,

You asked why armor is so expensive. Well it is a combination of labor, neccessary tools, and materials. I started making armor in 1996. I started a full time high volume armory in 2000 after I retired and needed something to do. Plus I wanted to give back something to sca, and I figured outfitting new people cheaply was a good mission statement (and part b of that was trying to keep everything in stock, which costs money too) . Fortunately I do not have to work, nor does my company have to make a profit, or I'd be destitute now. The last 5 years this company has continuously gone in the red. I have poured in thousands of dollars in tools, etc. out of my own pocket with no return whatsoever, and have shown losses in the tens of thousands. I work for free, or rather I have been paying to work. This is not really a problem due to the fact it benefits me tax wise to lose money on it. (This year that changes as I need to at least break even according to the cpa). But last year my intention was to break even, and it did not happen. Plus this is my hobby, and my favorite charity. How anyone makes a true living making armor is beyond me...
You ask how come it is so expensive.... The better question is how can it be so cheap....

adric wrote:Armor IS cheap - you just don't make enough money!

I'm glad to see that your willing to put so much effort in adding such helpful remarks to this new guys thread. GREAT WORDS

Dire,
You_can_ get cheap armour but it will be just that. You can buy some decent looking stuff off e-bay from people dealing in armour from India, but it will not fit well and will have about as much care in the construction as anything else that comes off an assembly line. I bought a couple helms for decoration made in India,they could provably be fixed to use in sca, but they look nothing like what I have seen from the armoires throught the A/A and the net. Nor do they have the construction for your protection. I got a helm from Halberds and the difference is unbelievable. Armour IS NOT expensive if you want to buy cheap. If you want to look good then do what I plan to do..... Save up

Mead:

You have to careful, most Indian helms I've seen are 18ga or thiner.

Mike F wrote:Mead:

You have to careful, most Indian helms I've seen are 18ga or thiner.

what gauge is allowed for SCA?

meaddrinker wrote:

Mike F wrote:Mead:

You have to careful, most Indian helms I've seen are 18ga or thiner.

what gauge is allowed for SCA?

Helms have to be 16 gauge or lower. Most of the folks I know have 14. Alas, another reason why armor is expensive. The thicker the gauge, the harder it is to work and the longer it takes to make.

Mord.

Thanks.... And not to mention the price of iron today.

Don't forget, the rules require it to be 16 gauge in its finished state, at least the way many people interpret the rules. So if its formed through a process that thins the metal, like dishing, it will no longer be the same gauge that it was originally, so you have to start with a thicker piece, or use a technique that doesn't thin the metal, which typically takes longer. This is why you don't see most SCA armourers selling helms that started at 16 gauge, theres several other reasons too, this is just one of them.

~Chris

Right!
If I make a helm out of 14 gauge steel, I normally advertise the thickness as 15 gauge when I sell it.

Of course I always get some wise-ass who wants to know where I buy 15 gauge steel...

A 16 gauge helm is going to dent a lot requiring maintenence. Also, the more mass a helm has the less concussion transferred to you.

The SCA has minimum standards... this doesn't mean you have to stop there. Prime example is shoulder protection. I know some kingdoms require it, but sca minimum standards do not, and Ansteorra does not. Having said that I know a lot of guys with a lot of shoulder problems because they wear nothing. Most of them fight for years with no problems, then one day, one hit, and they are through fighting.

I personally do not like helms that do not have a 12 gauge top with 14 gauge sides. Those are MY minimum requirements.

The debate between safety and weight is a longstanding one... that's one reason I am looking into making spring steel products in the near future.

I'm with Stonekeep. The bowl of my sugarloaf started as 12 ga, and the visor and front plates are 14ga. The rear is 16, but that should be enough considering it's not dished, and I don't fear two-handed shots to the -back- of the head.

Something to keep in mind, the US steel industry allow for 7 thousands of an inch margin of error in steel thickness, thats enough to make 16 ga be a pretty thin 17

meaddrinker wrote:

adric wrote:Armor IS cheap - you just don't make enough money!

I'm glad to see that you’re willing to put so much effort in adding such helpful remarks to this new guys thread. GREAT WORDS

I was trying to add a little humor in a very real statement. My wife is a mural artist. She charges over 50$ an hour + materials. A lot of people want her to work for them but she picks her clients and they can afford her. Champagne taste, champagne budget. If you want some paint slapped on the wall that looks like Poo and Piglet there are likely several moms in the neighborhood who took an art class in high school that would be willing to paint it for you for a few bucks and for the fun of it. If you want art you will have to pay for it.

I can make a crappy helmet. It will mostly fit and be functional and might even be safe but it WILL look like shit. I am NOT an armourer. I have fun making stuff. And I won’t charge too much. You want a helm that looks great and is safe and is, and is, and is whatever, it will cost you. If you can't afford it, that is your problem. Make more or save more. Several guys have mentioned what they charge per + materials. It must be a labor of love cause i refuse to work for some of those wages.

It takes a lot of skill to make the art that Adam or Massa G or Ugo or any of the other great guys produce. If you are complaining about the prices you either don't have enough cash to afford your taste or you have unrealistic expectations about what an artist can get for their work. If you want hand outs talk to the government.

As to the seriousness of the question – “Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answerâ€Â

adric wrote:

meaddrinker wrote:

adric wrote:Armor IS cheap - you just don't make enough money!

I'm glad to see that you’re willing to put so much effort in adding such helpful remarks to this new guys thread. GREAT WORDS

I was trying to add a little humor in a very real statement. My wife is a mural artist. She charges over 50$ an hour + materials. A lot of people want her to work for them but she picks her clients and they can afford her. Champagne taste, champagne budget. If you want some paint slapped on the wall that looks like Poo and Piglet there are likely several moms in the neighborhood who took an art class in high school that would be willing to paint it for you for a few bucks and for the fun of it. If you want art you will have to pay for it.

I can make a crappy helmet. It will mostly fit and be functional and might even be safe but it WILL look like shit. I am NOT an armourer. I have fun making stuff. And I won’t charge too much. You want a helm that looks great and is safe and is, and is, and is whatever, it will cost you. If you can't afford it, that is your problem. Make more or save more. Several guys have mentioned what they charge per + materials. It must be a labor of love cause i refuse to work for some of those wages.

It takes a lot of skill to make the art that Adam or Massa G or Ugo or any of the other great guys produce. If you are complaining about the prices you either don't have enough cash to afford your taste or you have unrealistic expectations about what an artist can get for their work. If you want hand outs talk to the government.

As to the seriousness of the question – “Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answerâ€Â

Dire,

Have you tried looking on ebay? I recently saw 16 guage knee cops for $12 and undished do it your self ones for $9.00. Not to mention used stuff.
Ashcraft / Baker has started kits for 210.00 plus shipping. he may even do a group discount if ya ask. I would definatly locate some loaner gear from the local fighters before spending any money and time in making stuff. make sure your bubbies all give it a try.


Donngal

I made most of my harness myself, and I'm a poor starving college student. I bought my knees, elbows and helm, but I've attached all the straps and fixtures myself. I've spent a lot of time and effort (and skipped more than a few classes) on my armor. I made a Coat of plates with stainless steel legs and arms with articulated elbows. Albeit my stuff isn't the best in the world (it's only version 1.0) but I made it. My reccomendation for us youngins getting our kits together is to fall in with an experienced fighter whose picked up some tricks over the years. Also sacrificing your freedom to slave at Wendy's for a semester doesn't hurt either. All in all I've spent the following:
-50 on leather
-28 on washers(I HATE LOWES)
-3 on the roofing nails I turned into ghetto rivets (work pretty well)
-45 on a gorget
-200 on a stainless grill face bascinet
-35 on a basket hilt
-65 on a shield basket (yeah I could have found a better deal or made one but I wanted it NOW)
-50 on knees
-50 on elbows
-65 on a shield blank (aircraft aluminum w00t)
Total: $591 and I did most of the work myself.
I could probably do it cheaper if I had to do it again but I'm proud of the fact that I made it. I even put some special uniique touches on the leather for my arms. I'll post some pics when I get some good ones.

And if Raulin Arbor is who I think he is, then his suit looked damn good, and only broke one strap when he authorized a couple weeks ago.


Green coat of plates right?

Yep that's me. Thanks for the compliment.
My legs are stainless steel now and I fixed my straps so that the buckles are more heavy duty and the straps are affixed to the plates themselves, not just the leather.

I make 35 bucks an hour doing professional office cleaning but I armour for fun and a little profit (cleaning toilets is not fun) but the day I spend 4 or 5 hours building a piece of armour and sell it for 20 bucks because armour is too expensive will be the last day I make armour. You pay for the expertise, not the material. All I can say is that if you don't want to pay for the expertise learn to do it yourself or do without.