Should an armouer be the customers personal bitch

[Stonekeep]

Mykaru:

I actually sold a 30 foot sailing yacht on ebay, which was sitting on a trailer on my ranch (so basically not in my way at all), but the guy bought it in something like 1999,he immediately sent me a check for almost 10 grand so it was his and paid for, and asked if he could wait a little while to pick it up. I said sure, its not in my way...
FOUR years later he called to come pick it up. What had happened was he was a truck driver and almost immediately after sending me the payment he had a super serious wreck and came close to dying. It took him a while to get back "with it" plus he had lost my email etc. He had had financial difficulties because of being out of work, medical bills, etc. so when I phoned him it was disconnected.
It just so happened he was looking through his desk one day and ran across my phone number with "boat" next to it.
He called and it was like the revelation to a huge mystery.

[Murdock]

i buy ALOT of stuff

_A_L_O_T_!! of stuff

I have only been boned twice off of the Archive. 1 time over a moving blanket lllllooooonnnngggggg ago and by Thorbjorn who only made one of the 5 or so shield blanks i paid for.

Illusion took 2 forevers and didn't get me the "extras" i paid for, but that wasn't off the Archive.

But off the Archuve i've only had the two problems.
I've had to remind people to take my money and i've had to be reminded.

I've bought from Cet, from Klaus, from Sasuke, from Gamgadroga, Gwen as well as others like Primvs and Saint-Sever on individual items. Everyone of them has gottem me exactly what i expected and was gracious with payment arragements.

No complaints.

[Sasha_Khan]

There are a who folks who order custom, or customised items - often making the producers/armourers jump through all sorts of hoops - and then end up selling the items in a few short months.

How do you all feel about this? If it was me, I think that I'd be fairly irked.

[morristh]

i buy ALOT of stuff

_A_L_O_T_!! of stuff

I have only been boned twice off of the Archive. 1 time over a moving blanket lllllooooonnnngggggg ago and by Thorbjorn who only made one of the 5 or so shield blanks i paid for.

Illusion took 2 forevers and didn't get me the "extras" i paid for, but that wasn't off the Archive.

But off the Archuve i've only had the two problems.
I've had to remind people to take my money and i've had to be reminded.

I've bought from Cet, from Klaus, from Sasuke, from Gamgadroga, Gwen as well as others like Primvs and Saint-Sever on individual items. Everyone of them has gottem me exactly what i expected and was gracious with payment arragements.

No complaints.

Why everyone one knows that Murdock is a lousy customer, with all his a bitchin and stuff

My buying experiences have been similar to Murdock here--though I dont buy at the rate he does--An occasional slower than I had expected, with a good reason--babies come to mind. I would hate to be know as one of those bitchin type customers.

Tim

[Stonekeep]

99.9% of the customers you deal with in this business are good as gold.
Even too good at times, when you read on here about them waiting for orders politely which are three times past their due date etc.
There is that occasional 1 fellow that pops up every so often, that is so completely upsetting that it makes you wanna just throw down your tools and quit. Ive learned you just have to realize there are some people in this world who are so unhappy with themselves that no interaction they have with other human beings is a positive one, and its not your problem, its their daily existence. Then someone writes to you, like a fellow last week that just got his splinted arms and legs in, I think his last name was Hammond, and he was so appreciative and happy with them that he actually took the time and sat down and wrote the company a thank you letter. Then you remember why you are doing this. It's for the other 99.9%, most of whom just appreciate you in silence.

[ndiggs1]

You know, after reading this thread, and the AB thread, it really upsets me to see both sides of the argument. When you sell something, you are providing a product to a someone with a specified agreement on both sides. If I were to order something from a catalogue or go into a store and they charged me for something, said it would ship in 2 days or 2 weeks or 2 months, and it does not ship, I have a right to be upset by that as a customer. Now, I realize that armour is a diffrent beast, as most of the pieces we are talking about here are custom commissions, but as a customer I feel that I have the right to expect the product I ordered, when it was promised.

Now, as I said I realize that this is a unique field, and sometimes delays, or problems happen, and I think you will find that 99% of people will be understanding if they are informed of what the problem is and when they can expect the new completion date to be. Do I think that if I order a 500 or a 5000 dollar helm that I own the armour? NO, but I do think that I should be able to expect timely updates and answers to questions that I may have.

On a seperate thread, I dislike ordering custom armour only through e-mail as some people here have said they will only do business. I understand your reasoning, but I personally like to talk to the person who is going to be makeing the piece so that I understand they understand exactly what I am looking for. If you want to follow that up with an e-mail summery that is fine, but I am leary dealing with a company that won't give me a phone number to contact. Just my 2 cents on that.

Nicholas

[Mord]

Since I don't work metal, I am dependant upon folks who do work metal for things like helmets and other required protection. As such, I keep a couple of things in mind:

1. Armor protects you from serious injury. Hence, I think the armorer should take the time to get things right.

2. I am not the only person for whom the armorer is working. Pestering the armorer is not only rude, but does a disservice to other customers.

3. It's my own danm fault if my gear isn't up to snuff, and the armorer is there to help you. So shut yer yap and open your ears.

Mord.

[InfinitySteel]

You know, after reading this thread, and the AB thread, it really upsets me to see both sides of the argument. When you sell something, you are providing a product to a someone with a specified agreement on both sides. If I were to order something from a catalogue or go into a store and they charged me for something, said it would ship in 2 days or 2 weeks or 2 months, and it does not ship, I have a right to be upset by that as a customer. Now, I realize that armour is a diffrent beast, as most of the pieces we are talking about here are custom commissions, but as a customer I feel that I have the right to expect the product I ordered, when it was promised.

Now, as I said I realize that this is a unique field, and sometimes delays, or problems happen, and I think you will find that 99% of people will be understanding if they are informed of what the problem is and when they can expect the new completion date to be. Do I think that if I order a 500 or a 5000 dollar helm that I own the armour? NO, but I do think that I should be able to expect timely updates and answers to questions that I may have.

On a seperate thread, I dislike ordering custom armour only through e-mail as some people here have said they will only do business. I understand your reasoning, but I personally like to talk to the person who is going to be makeing the piece so that I understand they understand exactly what I am looking for. If you want to follow that up with an e-mail summery that is fine, but I am leary dealing with a company that won't give me a phone number to contact. Just my 2 cents on that.

Nicholas

I'm generally pretty good at keeping up with emails-but people tend to abuse phones. They call at all sort of odd times, interrupting the work flow and focus. Then they yammer on and on, without saying even much half the time.

We have reasons for sticking to ways that work for us.

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

No, the armourer should have as much exclusivity as any other business. I have usually either made most of my stuff, or bought it used (as I cant afford newer stuff right now), to demonstrate where I am coming from. When I buy anything new that is not a munitions-style normal stock piece, I treat in my mind the same way as I would a hired consultant (I am a business major). I would expect communication (which is one of the biggest complaints), but in no way would I expect them to be available to me every second I needed them. I would work with them, and ask the same of them to me. If I needed to change something for some reason, I would understand that previous estimations would be off, and I would try make sure it was correct the first time. I think all the armourers that have posted on this thread have been the "successful" ones, who have good business practices, keep track of their customers (unless the customer falls off the end of the earth ), and people will go to them time and again.

[Mykaru]

Another minor point. An armourer finishes an order on time or even a little late. The customer has been waiting 4-6 months but doesn't have the money when it's done. You ordered something and had time to save the money and didn't??? This is a common occurance. Sure I get pi$$ed about it momentarily, but *I'm* not the best money manager in the world either. Whether it's just poor management or life actually kicking them in the teeth, I understand.

Sure is frustrating though. That plus the customers who do just flake is why so many armourers want a deposit, not so they can take the money and run. I *would* require deposits on custom orders, but my living overseas precludes that. My customers would have to pay wiring fees twice PLUS the shipping costs. Living in a third world coutry doesn't lower production costs THAT much.

[Mykaru]

OT:

BTW guys, do any of you running explorer have a problem with my gateway page not loading? I use Firefox but it wouldn't load in explorer for me yesterday.

[Cet]

BTW guys, do any of you running explorer have a problem with my gateway page not loading? I use Firefox but it wouldn't load in explorer for me yesterday.

I just get a blank page.

[iaenmor]

Loaded fine in Firefox. Blank page in explorer. Lovely bit of wallpaper in Opera no header tho.

[Jehan de Pelham]

Mykaru brings up a good point. I have worked hard to obtain the reputation of ordering only when I have ready cash to pay. This I think helps the maker understand that when the product is ready, so also will I.

As far as the relationship aspect of armoring, I think there's definitely a need, if you're working on a custom or semi-custom peice, for a moment where expectations are laid out, by both parties, and I would expect this to be either the product of some decently lengthy emails coupled with at least an acquaintance with one another, or a phone call.

I have tried to keep my dealings "above board," that is to say, I like to deal with people who I know here and through other ways, and I like to discuss future projects publicly as it sheds a little light on it that might help to motivate the work to be completed in a timely fashion.

That said, I have done work for others before (cabinetry and carpentry) and the stated timeline is law, from my standpoint as a provider of product or services. In many cases, people make plans built around a purchase and they have every right to be displeased at someone busting a date. That said, armoring is a niche, specialty business...one must be patient.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org
Proprietor, The Compagniye Store

[Mykaru]

Ian, Cet,

Thanks. I'll try to get it sorted this evening. (I wonder why it's doing that?)