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The battle of Towton (article)
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:28 am
by Baron Eirik
[url=http://www.economist.com/node/17722650?story_id=17722650]Nasty, brutish and not that short
Medieval warfare was just as terrifying as you might imagine [/url]
The Economist wrote:THE soldier now known as Towton 25 had survived battle before. A healed skull fracture points to previous engagements. He was old enough—somewhere between 36 and 45 when he died—to have gained plenty of experience of fighting. But on March 29th 1461, his luck ran out.
Towton 25 suffered eight wounds to his head that day. The precise order can be worked out from the direction of fractures on his skull: when bone breaks, the cracks veer towards existing areas of weakness. The first five blows were delivered by a bladed weapon to the left-hand side of his head, presumably by a right-handed opponent standing in front of him. None is likely to have been lethal.
The next one almost certainly was. From behind him someone swung a blade towards his skull, carving a down-to-up trajectory through the air. The blow opened a huge horizontal gash into the back of his head—picture a slit you could post an envelope through. Fractures raced down to the base of his skull and around the sides of his head. Fragments of bone were forced in to Towton 25’s brain, felling him.
His enemies were not done yet. Another small blow to the right and back of the head may have been enough to turn him over onto his back. Finally another blade arced towards him. This one bisected his face, opening a crevice that ran from his left eye to his right jaw (see picture). It cut deep: the edge of the blade reached to the back of his throat.
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:53 am
by Sean Powell
And let that stand as a piece of evidence against the 'one killing blow' standard. The man was hit so hard he suffered 5 skull fractures from what could generously be described as a flat-snap before being slain either from a flanker or because he turned to run... damn I don't think I'd have the balls to hold the line through 5 skull fractures either.
Sean
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:04 am
by Baron Eirik
Read the article. They theorized that he got mobbed after they broke. One shot might not kill ya, but ya might just stand there counting the pretty little birds while they finish ya off.
Of course, they do state it's a theory.
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:22 am
by Leo Medii
If only the Lancastrians had Count Johnathan on their side........
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:21 am
by Effingham
The author has done his research. He mentioned Wisby. Damn.
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:29 pm
by Swete
Who was it that said, "People are damn hard to kill"?
You see stories on the news of a woman being stabbed with a kitchen knife twenty times, yet still managing to walk to the hospital, and various other tales from Nam etc of soldiers withstanding and surviving tremendous injury and pain, and it all seems to support the aforementioned quote.
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:45 pm
by Sean Powell
Swete wrote:Who was it that said, "People are damn hard to kill"?
You see stories on the news of a woman being stabbed with a kitchen knife twenty times, yet still managing to walk to the hospital, and various other tales from Nam etc of soldiers withstanding and surviving tremendous injury and pain, and it all seems to support the aforementioned quote.
People can be surprisingly difficult to kill AND surprisingly easy too. At one end we have: "Towton 32 suffered no fewer than 13 different blows to the head." and at the other people have bent over to pick something up off the ground, come up under the edge of a table, banged their heds hard enough to become unconcious and died from blood build up on the brain without even causing a fracture.
Adrenilin can do some amazing things to preserve life. It was a cool article now that I got to read all of it. Thanks for sharing.
Sean
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:47 pm
by Baron Eirik
You're welcome. Ran across it by accident. Glad folks are enjoying it.
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:26 pm
by MJBlazek
Excellent article! glad I chose to be on the Yorkist side for my persona! lol
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:47 pm
by EnglishSteel
Most of the men killed at Towton died during the rout. Rather than gloriously being killed in combat fighting on despite his wounds, its likey Towton 25 and many of his comrades were caught up in the crush of retreating bodies and attacked on all sides by the advancing Yorkists, who continued hacking and slashing at them even as they fell to the ground.
Joining the Towton Battlefield Archaeology Project on Facebook will give you lots of links to news articles and other pieces of info about the latest findings and theories about the battle.
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:57 pm
by Vermillion
"Blood Red Roses" is a very interesting read.
It goes into many of the finds from the battle field, and analyzses their deaths.
Well Worth the Cash.
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:56 pm
by Eltz-Kempenich
What I've been seeing pretty consistently in studying Wisby and Towton is that there tends to be a lot of overkill. 27 of the 28 skulls found at Towton indicate more than one fatal wound. I don't think it is because people are that hard to kill, but rather the victim doesn't yell "Good!" and everyone stops hitting him.
EDIT: Having read the article, I see that this is mentioned. Never mind then!
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:12 pm
by chris19d
Eltz-Kempenich wrote:What I've been seeing pretty consistently in studying Wisby and Towton is that there tends to be a lot of overkill. 27 of the 28 skulls found at Towton indicate more than one fatal wound. I don't think it is because people are that hard to kill, but rather the victim doesn't yell "Good!" and everyone stops hitting him.
EDIT: Having read the article, I see that this is mentioned. Never mind then!
That's common in warfare in general, you hit/shoot your target until they stop moving. Its no different today I've seen hadj pretty much cut in half with MG fire still try to shoot back.
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:20 am
by Signo
It is very interesting, but quite open to interpretations to me.
For example, the most frequent wounds that many skulls shows (and we should not forget the traces of healed wounds too) are not very deep or extended. This to me could be because in the early stages of battle when ranks are still tight and soldiers are fresh and motivated, it's more difficult to deliver the strongest blows, there is the real risk to have your hand chopped or to be hit because you open your defense.
So, in my mental vision of the battle, at this point, people get mainly light wounds, they probably can't even retreat from the first lines until the two formations loosen a bit the engangement. At this point death rate is still low, but increasing, when at some point, maybe someone few people get seriously wounded or killed nearby, and a hole opens in the enemy formation, as soon as this opening is exploited, more wounding and kills bring the formation to disruption, and this is when hell begin, the loosened formation start do disgregate and people get butchered from a storm of blows, if the attackers decide to pursue the fleeing enemies the outcome is what we see in those bones at Towton.
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:43 am
by chef de chambre
It is 'quite open' only if you haven't absorbed most of the archaeological and documentary information.
THere is no way getting around that the Towton pit excavated and under discussion is a ways from the actual battlefield, in the path of the Lancastrian flight.
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:50 am
by Signo
I was referring to the wounds and the fighting in general. I don't think the most tremendous wounds were the norm UNTIL the formations stay tight.
I thought it was clear enough.
But maybe after reading the book I will think otherwise (I've received it last week).
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:44 am
by EnglishSteel
Though there were huge numbers of men killed in the combat, so many that they were fighting over litteral mounds of bodies, the vast, vast majourity were killed in the rout after the battle. A sizable number were drowned or simply crushed to death in the mass of men trying to escape across the Cock Beck stream. Yorkist soldiers simply stood on the river bank casually shooting and spearing the mass of Lancastrian men. Having visited the site, even today I wouldnt like to clamber up that slope, nevermind when its covered in snow, ice and blood, theres thousands of men crowded all arround me and other men are trying to brutally kill me. The rout lasted for a day and a night with bodies scattered all over fields, until the Lancastrian army staggered into York. Many men threw off their helmets in order to try and get away faster, which may explain the large number of head wounds.