The Armour Archive

In this picture:

http://www.wga.hu/art/l/lorenzet/ambrog ... ffecz1.jpg

Center-left, there is a man on a brown horse with a red hat. Farther to the left is a man with a similar hat, but in grey (he is hiding partly behind the person in blue).

What can you tell me about that hat, and possibly patterns for making one?

Thanks in advance!

-Ramius/Elias

Robin Hood hat.

There is another name for it, but its slipped my mind atm.
Thought it was called an Acorn hat, but I believe that's incorrect.

Wanted one for about a year, now.

Alright, this is starting to bug me...

Ramius wrote:What can you tell me about that hat, and possibly patterns for making one?

Well, it's an Italian illustration, so I'm not sure what the Italians would have called it. The English term may have been byecoket. The French term may have been chapel à bec.

Tasha's made one; you can see it in a photo at http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... p?t=121609

This style seems to come up most often in outdoorsy scenes (like hunt scenes), so I suspect it's a bit like a medieval visor. It does come up in other contexts, though.

Keegan Ingrassia wrote:Thought it was called an Acorn hat, but I believe that's incorrect.

When I think of an acorn hat, I think of a rounder style from the 15th century, especially the kinds that get a bit pointy on the top. I've compiled a list at http://www.larsdatter.com/acorn-hats.htm but this includes a wider variety of styles from the second half of the 15th century.

Ach! Beak hat! Thank you! I can stop racking my brain, now.

Quite right on the acorn hats. Often without a protruding brim, or even an turned-up edge.

I have always seen it called a 'bycocket'.
A number of medieval hatters use the same term for that style.

Wikipedia uses the term 'bycoket' (missing the second 'c') as a name for both an ancient cap in England and the peak fronted hat of later centuries.

You can get those hats (in black only, I think) from Historic Enterprises. I know that there are other companies that make them.
Oh and by the way, the rider of the brown horse is a woman. There is a large amount of fabric coming down the side of the horse, which (I think) indicates the folds of a dress. More tellingly, if you enlarge the image you can see blond braids done in a "rams' horn" style (a.k.a. cinnamon buns or Princess Leah). As I recall there was a time when this hat was fashionnable for both men and women, as seen in the image.

They (H.E.) have them in a small assortment of colors (brown, black, beige, lt. blue, dk green) but they need to be blocked and shaped to look that sharpe. I have one I've been playing with but can't seem to get it to look right. I think I need to shrink it up some.
Cool to play with.
Medieval people were very clever.
-Cian

Finnacan wrote:I have always seen it called a 'bycocket'.
A number of medieval hatters use the same term for that style.

Wikipedia uses the term 'bycoket' (missing the second 'c') as a name for both an ancient cap in England and the peak fronted hat of later centuries.

That's certainly the English term for it. Chapel à bec would be the French term. I personally tend to use French terms when I know them, since I do French interpretations more than English.

-Tasha

Katrina Wood in the UK makes them as well.

http://www.kats-hats.co.uk/bycocket.shtml

Jenn

Tailoress wrote:

Finnacan wrote:I have always seen it called a 'bycocket'.
A number of medieval hatters use the same term for that style.

Wikipedia uses the term 'bycoket' (missing the second 'c') as a name for both an ancient cap in England and the peak fronted hat of later centuries.

That's certainly the English term for it. Chapel à bec would be the French term. I personally tend to use French terms when I know them, since I do French interpretations more than English.

-Tasha

Bycocket also seems to refer to a form of Armet, as seen in the Celey letters. It certainly is a long-lived fashion term in Late Middle/Early Modern English.

chef de chambre wrote:Bycocket also seems to refer to a form of Armet, as seen in the Celey letters.

And the Expenses and Accounts of Sir John Howard (1464) includes an entry that also seems to refer to a helmet: "Payd to the goldsmythe that made the bokelys, pendawntes and barrys to my masters salat and his byecoket."

(Yes, as you might have guessed, http://larsdatter.com/bycockets.htm is Coming Soon To An Intarnet Near You ...)

Karen Larsdatter wrote:

chef de chambre wrote:Bycocket also seems to refer to a form of Armet, as seen in the Celey letters.

And the Expenses and Accounts of Sir John Howard (1464) includes an entry that also seems to refer to a helmet: "Payd to the goldsmythe that made the bokelys, pendawntes and barrys to my masters salat and his byecoket."

(Yes, as you might have guessed, http://larsdatter.com/bycockets.htm is Coming Soon To An Intarnet Near You ...)

Karen, if I read that correctly, a felt hat might get pendants for decoration, but buckles and bars sure sound like a helmet. Could it be pendants for a felt bycocket and the rest for the sallet?

Is it possible that the bycocket was worn under the helmet as a type of padding, and it was set with buckles to keep it attached to the helm?
I've seen bycockets worn under crowns in some art, so using one under a helmet with the beak turned back wouldn't surprise me.

Finnacan wrote:Karen, if I read that correctly, a felt hat might get pendants for decoration, but buckles and bars sure sound like a helmet. Could it be pendants for a felt bycocket and the rest for the sallet?

Is it possible that the bycocket was worn under the helmet as a type of padding, and it was set with buckles to keep it attached to the helm?
I've seen bycockets worn under crowns in some art, so using one under a helmet with the beak turned back wouldn't surprise me.

I think we're using a word ('bycocket') to mean a hat, when in the Middle Ages it may well have (also?) meant a form of helmet.

FWIW, here's the aforementioned reference from the Cely Papers.

And also ... http://larsdatter.com/bycockets.htm is online. (Still collecting examples for that page, but I figured it's pretty well ready to post, at this point.)

because I moved the linkspage to http://www.larsdatter.com/bycokets.htm and sure would like to hear about additional links folks might recommend adding.