. The sleeve is divided into two parts: the upper part is from the armhole to the elbow and the bottom of the elbow to the wrist, at the top there are 8 eyelets at the biceps where strings protruding black silk cm high. 1 (photo 13) that there is no mention in the inventories nor in the sumptuary laws, but are a great success iconography, Cesare Vecellio the comments saying "that these tapes are nicely shaken by the wind." Do not know the utility of these objects, there are many hypotheses, including a very interesting formulated recently by Massimiliano Righini and that they could originally used to hold the sleeves of his coat of mail and later became just an ornament. Returning to the sleeve, the lower part has an opening that covers the forearm from wrist to elbow cm long. 16 and is closed at the wrist by 4 buttons while at the end of the seam just below the elbow you can see 2 eyes where he probably spent a cordella perhaps silk. All the doublet was stitched with silk thread back in 3 pieces, and the points about mm long. 2
Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Body
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Facebook photo album with lots of photos of Diego's garments
Last edited by Tom B. on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Sean, the bulge of the top right edge corresponds to the point of the shoulder, and the "scoop" on the top left is the underarm, if that helps orient your eye.I can't make much sense out of that sleeve to be honest; I can't figure out where the shoulder and wrist seams are or why there would be points at that spot
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
I put the photos up on my Picasa account for those who don't want to mess with Facebook.
Diego Cavaniglia
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
In the back of my mind there is a reference to points being cut, not untied. Does this ring a bell with anyone?Tom B. wrote:Facebook photo album with lots of photos of Diego's garments
. The sleeve is divided into two parts: the upper part is from the armhole to the elbow and the bottom of the elbow to the wrist, at the top there are 8 eyelets at the biceps where strings protruding black silk cm high. 1 (photo 13) that there is no mention in the inventories nor in the sumptuary laws, but are a great success iconography, Cesare Vecellio the comments saying "that these tapes are nicely shaken by the wind." Do not know the utility of these objects, there are many hypotheses, including a very interesting formulated recently by Massimiliano Righini and that they could originally used to hold the sleeves of his coat of mail and later became just an ornament. Returning to the sleeve, the lower part has an opening that covers the forearm from wrist to elbow cm long. 16 and is closed at the wrist by 4 buttons while at the end of the seam just below the elbow you can see 2 eyes where he probably spent a cordella perhaps silk. All the doublet was stitched with silk thread back in 3 pieces, and the points about mm long. 2
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Here is what I see.Mac wrote:Wow! Thank you, Bertus!Bertus Brokamp wrote:
There are also holes in his upper sleeves, presumably to hold up arm armour (upper right in pic, below/halfway the two vertical lines)
I have not yet found the holes in the upper sleeve. Can someone help me?
Mac
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
I can't think of the source either, but I seem to recall a reference to points in a tournament or judicial combat being knotted tightly and then having the loose ends cut off, in which case it makes sense for them to be cut on disarming as well. (It's not the Hasting MS, I just checked.)In the back of my mind there is a reference to points being cut, not untied. Does this ring a bell with anyone?
Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Thank you, Tom. That certainly matches up with the text.Tom B. wrote:Here is what I see.Mac wrote:Wow! Thank you, Bertus!Bertus Brokamp wrote:
There are also holes in his upper sleeves, presumably to hold up arm armour (upper right in pic, below/halfway the two vertical lines)
I have not yet found the holes in the upper sleeve. Can someone help me?
Mac
It looks like the ones on the arm are not as robustly buttonholed as the ones on the skirt. Does this mean that it is a civilian garment with decorative points on the arms? We certainly see a lot of those in art, Including the ones on the Gonzaga kids....
.....but what does that mean about the double set of holes on the skirt?
Mac
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Its in Johann Hill's Treatise of Worship in Arms, which gives advice on how to give someone every possible advantage in a judicial duel. "And all ye armyng poyntes after they ben knytte & fastened on hym armed that ye poyntes of him be kutte of." (For non-native-English speakers: "And all the arming points shall be cut off after they have been knotted and fastened to his armour.")Ernst wrote:In the back of my mind there is a reference to points being cut, not untied. Does this ring a bell with anyone?
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Then it might follow in illustrations of men armed for duel or combat that the points might not be seen hanging, and that only a knot might be visible, no?
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Tom B. wrote:Facebook photo album with lots of photos of Diego's garments
. The sleeve is divided into two parts: the upper part is from the armhole to the elbow and the bottom of the elbow to the wrist, at the top there are 8 eyelets at the biceps where strings protruding black silk cm high. 1 (photo 13) that there is no mention in the inventories nor in the sumptuary laws, but are a great success iconography, Cesare Vecellio the comments saying "that these tapes are nicely shaken by the wind." Do not know the utility of these objects, there are many hypotheses, including a very interesting formulated recently by Massimiliano Righini and that they could originally used to hold the sleeves of his coat of mail and later became just an ornament. Returning to the sleeve, the lower part has an opening that covers the forearm from wrist to elbow cm long. 16 and is closed at the wrist by 4 buttons while at the end of the seam just below the elbow you can see 2 eyes where he probably spent a cordella perhaps silk. All the doublet was stitched with silk thread back in 3 pieces, and the points about mm long. 2
There ya go.
I asked the owner of the page, Paola Fabbri, about the photos. She said she had 'worked on the restoration of the garment'. The article she wrote about it is in the notes section of the facebook page.
The restorer was Dr. Lucia Portoguesi. The article she wrote on this was published in the book 'Diego Cavaniglia, La rinascita di un conte' from 2010. This contains a drawing of the pattern, comparing it with the malatesta doublet pattern, but no spectacular photos like the ones on the facebook page. The photos show people handling the remains before and while restoring them. I have no idea about the content of the article. My copy arrived a few hours ago and I do not speak Italian.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Mac wrote:Drew,
Syphax was taken prisoner in a military engagement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphax He has been stripped of his armor, but what he wears is without a doubt intended to represent arming clothes.
If you look closely, you will see that the lacing points are not attached at the base of his doublet. Those horizontal dashes at above hip-joint level represent where the laces are passed from the outside to the inside of his skirt. I see no reason to think that these laces could not have held up his leg armor as well as his hosen.then the points at the base of his doublet may have been for his wool hose rather than a leg harness.
There are similar dashes for the attachment of the points on the upper arms as well, save that in this case the laces must end up on the outside.
They are for holding up his arm defenses. In this case you are not interpreting literally enough.So what then are the points doing on his arm? This is why I have problems with interpreting the art too literally.
Mac
Remember Im playing devils advocate on both perspectives because that crazy line between civilian and military clothing can so often be a question of personal preference, let alone the artists ability to discern what he is seeing. I think its risky assumption to view art work as first hand source. Because in point of fact its not technically first hand, its highly interpretive based on the artists understanding of the equipment, the artists materials and size of the original image space to draw minute details and even the patrons wishes to see certain details (or not)....and certainly we have plenty of cases of artists being told to draw some things or omit other things. If I was a betting man I would be inclined to agree wholly (and I do agree we are probably seeing an arming cotte) but ya know, the obvious smoking gun is so damn elusive. If we had an image of a man removing a leg harness or an arm harness being taken off ....as the points where clearly dangling in the picture also....well, were we to be so lucky.
Ive been thinking about this notion of a cotte combining both wool hose and the leg harness. Very interesting idea. Damn if I cant recall at the moment of a citation referring to period military authors advising the inner lining of arming doublets being lined with satin or silk and thus, avoiding a shirt all together. I had long thought the idea of wearing so many layers was bloody hot, even in a cooler climate such as central or northern Europe. Maybe there is something to this notion.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
I ran across an image today that could be interesting to include in this discussion. This is the tomb monument of Gustav Mattsson (d. 1406) and his wife Gertrud Lagesdotter. Gustav is wearing a leg harness and appears to be bare-chested (other possible options: a sheer shirt or a musculata, both seem unlikely to me). From where is his leg harness suspended? Another case of the artist ignoring reality?
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Ok, that's just weird. There seems to be a cuff on the sword-arm and the wrinkling of a sleeve, also a square neckline, but the other arm looks quite bare. Ya got me.
Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
He's definitely got a "Roman thing" going on here....the square neck line, the dipping lower edge that follows the pelvis, the pteruges. I am not sure I would go so far as to say that it represents an actual Roman revival cuirasse in 1406, but maybe. In any case the intent is clearly to invoke the glory that was Rome.Galfrid atte grene wrote:I ran across an image today that could be interesting to include in this discussion. This is the tomb monument of Gustav Mattsson (d. 1406) and his wife Gertrud Lagesdotter. Gustav is wearing a leg harness and appears to be bare-chested (other possible options: a sheer shirt or a musculata, both seem unlikely to me). From where is his leg harness suspended? Another case of the artist ignoring reality?
Now, that said, the faces give it away as a 19th C drawing, so who knows what it originally looked like.
Mac
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Good points Mac, makes sense to me. Certainly an odd piece though, especially in Sweden. Wish I could find a more accurate picture.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
That's essentially exactly what I was going to say. It's clearly a modern redrawing of something, and it's pretty clear that the fellah who drew it missed some things. It looks obviously (to me) to be a guy in a musculata.Mac wrote:He's definitely got a "Roman thing" going on here....the square neck line, the dipping lower edge that follows the pelvis, the pteruges. I am not sure I would go so far as to say that it represents an actual Roman revival cuirasse in 1406, but maybe. In any case the intent is clearly to invoke the glory that was Rome.
Now, that said, the faces give it away as a 19th C drawing, so who knows what it originally looked like.
Mac
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
I was thinking the same thing as Mac, a Roman themed breast plate.
Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
OK, I have been looking at these pics of Diago Cavaniglia's funeral doublet. Burtus B suggested earlier in this thread that he thought that the lower holes were for holding up hosen and the upper ones were for holding up leg armour.
I would like to point out that the upper row of holes extends quite far around the back. This makes it much less likely that their function is to support leg armor.
Here is a detail that shows the holes of the back skirt more clearly.
The other thing which worries me about assigning the function of armor-support to the upper row if holes is this. Holes which are close to the waist of the skirt do not take full advantage of the "hip belt" nature of the skirt. The holes that are closer to the lower edge of the skirt get to use a greater surface area of the skirt to distribute the weight.
So, what do I think is going on? I don't have a good theory (yet).
Mac
I would like to point out that the upper row of holes extends quite far around the back. This makes it much less likely that their function is to support leg armor.
Here is a detail that shows the holes of the back skirt more clearly.
The other thing which worries me about assigning the function of armor-support to the upper row if holes is this. Holes which are close to the waist of the skirt do not take full advantage of the "hip belt" nature of the skirt. The holes that are closer to the lower edge of the skirt get to use a greater surface area of the skirt to distribute the weight.
So, what do I think is going on? I don't have a good theory (yet).
Mac
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Have you ever worked with someone who was very talented in their field but didn't understand yours very well? And as a consequence the results they deliver are quite excellent by the standards of their field, but -while functional- somewhat less than optimal by the standards of yours?
That experience can't possibly be isolated to the modern world.
That experience can't possibly be isolated to the modern world.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Mac- is it feasible that the hose were pointed to the waistline holes and legs were pointed to the holes along the margin? Other surviving (unquestionably civilian) garments of the period have holes all 'round for pointing hose.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Tracy, I think you have it right. Late 15th century joined hose ride up pretty high.
Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Tracy, I wondered the same thing, but I thought that in 1480 Italy the hosen were normally attached to the bottom of the doublet (as seen in the manuscript of Philippo Vadi from circa 1482 Link). Diego Cavaniglia died in 1481. This is definitely not my period of specialty!
I have been trying to make sense of the article "Formalités des duels et des combats judiciares en Guyenne dans les XIII et XIV siècles" from Gallica. It published a document from late 14th century Gascony, but which likely includes earlier material. It is a set of formulas for describing what the two parties to a judicial combat should have, with many alternatives and repetitions. It lists the following cloth or leather garments:
Chausses de toile (p. 81: leggings of cloth)
Caleçons de toile (p. 81: underwear/shorts of cloth)
Braguer ab las troissas (p. 82: Short pants with cords for a belt)
Combaisson (p. 82: gambeson)
Causses de lin et de drap (p. 82: linen or wool leggings)
Cosfas, de draps et de cambys (p. 82: Coifs of thick wool cloth or quilting)
Gorgeyras, de draps et de fer, doublas et simblas, garnidas (p. 82: Gorgets, of wool and of iron, double and single, with their fittings)
Culotte avec les ceintures et les agrafes garnies (p. 82: Short pants fitted with the belts and hooks)
Pourpoint (p. 82: A quilted garment for the upper body)
Chausses de lin et de drap (p. 82: linen or wool leggings)
Coiffes de toile de chanvre et de soie (p. 82: Coifs of cloth of help and silk)
Gorgerins de toile et de fer, doublas et simblas, garnis (p. 82: Gorgets of cloth and of iron, double and simple, with their fittings)
Perpunt et platas garnit (p. 83: Something like a brigandine or jack of plates)
Ceinture garnie avec le coutelas (p. 83: Belt furnished with the dagger)
Aycotas armeas (p. 83: cote d'armes ie. the garment that goes over one's armour with one's arms on it)
Cotte d'armes (p. 83)
My thanks to RScivas for answering some of my questions about the French!
I have been trying to make sense of the article "Formalités des duels et des combats judiciares en Guyenne dans les XIII et XIV siècles" from Gallica. It published a document from late 14th century Gascony, but which likely includes earlier material. It is a set of formulas for describing what the two parties to a judicial combat should have, with many alternatives and repetitions. It lists the following cloth or leather garments:
Chausses de toile (p. 81: leggings of cloth)
Caleçons de toile (p. 81: underwear/shorts of cloth)
Braguer ab las troissas (p. 82: Short pants with cords for a belt)
Combaisson (p. 82: gambeson)
Causses de lin et de drap (p. 82: linen or wool leggings)
Cosfas, de draps et de cambys (p. 82: Coifs of thick wool cloth or quilting)
Gorgeyras, de draps et de fer, doublas et simblas, garnidas (p. 82: Gorgets, of wool and of iron, double and single, with their fittings)
Culotte avec les ceintures et les agrafes garnies (p. 82: Short pants fitted with the belts and hooks)
Pourpoint (p. 82: A quilted garment for the upper body)
Chausses de lin et de drap (p. 82: linen or wool leggings)
Coiffes de toile de chanvre et de soie (p. 82: Coifs of cloth of help and silk)
Gorgerins de toile et de fer, doublas et simblas, garnis (p. 82: Gorgets of cloth and of iron, double and simple, with their fittings)
Perpunt et platas garnit (p. 83: Something like a brigandine or jack of plates)
Ceinture garnie avec le coutelas (p. 83: Belt furnished with the dagger)
Aycotas armeas (p. 83: cote d'armes ie. the garment that goes over one's armour with one's arms on it)
Cotte d'armes (p. 83)
My thanks to RScivas for answering some of my questions about the French!
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
I think you are thinking of the first line of "How a Man Shall be Armed" aka. the Hastings manuscript: "He schal have noo schirte up on him but a dowbelet of ffustean lynyd with satene cutte full of hoolis." I hadn't thought of the satin making it less itchy, but that would make sense ... I wear my HE linen doublet over a shirt, but I don't have lots of layers and white harness over top. (LinkPartsAndTechnical wrote:Ive been thinking about this notion of a cotte combining both wool hose and the leg harness. Very interesting idea. Damn if I cant recall at the moment of a citation referring to period military authors advising the inner lining of arming doublets being lined with satin or silk and thus, avoiding a shirt all together. I had long thought the idea of wearing so many layers was bloody hot, even in a cooler climate such as central or northern Europe. Maybe there is something to this notion.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
I ran through this : http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistr ... 4%24%2534PGalfrid atte grene wrote:I ran across an image today that could be interesting to include in this discussion. This is the tomb monument of Gustav Mattsson (d. 1406) and his wife Gertrud Lagesdotter. Gustav is wearing a leg harness and appears to be bare-chested (other possible options: a sheer shirt or a musculata, both seem unlikely to me). From where is his leg harness suspended? Another case of the artist ignoring reality?
Localisation Picardie ; Oise ; Hannaches
Edifice de conservation église paroissiale Saint-Sulpice
Titre dalle funéraire de Jean et Charles de Bissipat
Datation 4e quart 15e siècle
Date protection 1912/11/05 : classé au titre objet
N° référence PM60000898
Copyright © Monuments historiques, 1992
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Sean Manning wrote:I think you are thinking of the first line of "How a Man Shall be Armed" aka. the Hastings manuscript: "He schal have noo schirte up on him but a dowbelet of ffustean lynyd with satene cutte full of hoolis." I hadn't thought of the satin making it less itchy, but that would make sense ... I wear my HE linen doublet over a shirt, but I don't have lots of layers and white harness over top. (LinkPartsAndTechnical wrote:Ive been thinking about this notion of a cotte combining both wool hose and the leg harness. Very interesting idea. Damn if I cant recall at the moment of a citation referring to period military authors advising the inner lining of arming doublets being lined with satin or silk and thus, avoiding a shirt all together. I had long thought the idea of wearing so many layers was bloody hot, even in a cooler climate such as central or northern Europe. Maybe there is something to this notion.
Not sure. I found it...from the Peel Affinity, page 146. its referenced
--there is no citation so I dont know exactly what its referring to...the original source."He might wear a shirt, although some authorities recommend that he go without and have a satin lining for his gambeson instead"
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Only one I know of like that is the HAstings which is a 2nd half of the 15th. It is a mainstay and often used for much earlier than it was set to paper. For good or bad. Not sure any of the Peel could pitch in and say but my guess is Sean is right.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
This is a curious depiction. Im cautious but it could be a depiction of arming points hanging from the sleeves. The lines are drawn in two distinct directions, some of which extend directly down, even though his arm contrary to that direction. We may be seeing very crudely draw arming points. [Note that Im not referring to his pouch/purse strings]
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
No, IMHO that's just the pattern of the romboidal quilting. There's no way that points could overlap like that with the arm posotioned in that way =).
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Gustovic wrote:No, IMHO that's just the pattern of the romboidal quilting. There's no way that points could overlap like that with the arm posotioned in that way =).
Im not so sure. It is a crude drawing yet if you look at his chest and his lower torso the quilting is drawn very obviously, very intentionally. Why would rhomboidal quilting be so shoddily sketched at the arms?
Arming points are fairly loose and flexible so as to tie.....ergo if his arm was angled they would likely fall straight down in agreement with gravity.
Granted...its hard to be 100% sure.....but Im leery of being so positive that we are seeing quilting alone given the artists fairly precise detail of his torso quilting. We might be seeing vertical quilting on the sleeve,and that follows his sleeve. But the lines appear to hang down rather curiously.
Having said that, I do count four vertical lines on the arm...one is very low towards his elbow, so you might be right. *shrugs* Its tantalizing and frustrating to be sure.
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Drew, I think Gustovic is right, but thanks for posting these "iffy" things. They make all of us think, which is good. Artis on MyArmoury recently posted the effigy of Johann von Brandscheit (d. 1370 link) which also has criss-cross quilting on the arms and horizontal quilting on the belly.
DIS MANIBUS GUILLELMI GENTIS MCLEANUM FAMILIARITER GALLERON DICTI
VIR OMNIBUS ARTIBUS PERITUS
Check out Age of Datini: European Material Culture 1360-1410
VIR OMNIBUS ARTIBUS PERITUS
Check out Age of Datini: European Material Culture 1360-1410
Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
I'm pretty sure it's a diamond pattern to the quilting. Other parts of the drawing are sloppy and imprecise, so the fact that the lines do not precisely reach edge to edge of the sleeve is in keeping with the rest of the image. Diamond patterns are seen in various figural depictions of quilted garments. And many such garments have more than one pattern on them. I would not over-think this one.PartsAndTechnical wrote:Gustovic wrote:No, IMHO that's just the pattern of the romboidal quilting. There's no way that points could overlap like that with the arm posotioned in that way =).
Im not so sure.
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Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern
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Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
I wasn't around during the writing of that part of the book, but I would say that yes, the Hastings manuscript is what's being described. It seems pretty obvious to me, even without asking the subject matter experts.RandallMoffett wrote:Only one I know of like that is the HAstings which is a 2nd half of the 15th. It is a mainstay and often used for much earlier than it was set to paper. For good or bad. Not sure any of the Peel could pitch in and say but my guess is Sean is right.
RPM
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Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Tailoress wrote:I'm pretty sure it's a diamond pattern to the quilting. Other parts of the drawing are sloppy and imprecise, so the fact that the lines do not precisely reach edge to edge of the sleeve is in keeping with the rest of the image. Diamond patterns are seen in various figural depictions of quilted garments. And many such garments have more than one pattern on them. I would not over-think this one.PartsAndTechnical wrote:Gustovic wrote:No, IMHO that's just the pattern of the romboidal quilting. There's no way that points could overlap like that with the arm posotioned in that way =).
Im not so sure.
Fully agree.
P&T, can you provide a reference on that image? I just happen to be quilting one right now, and haven't decided upon sleeve quilting design. That's pretty spiffy.
Do you not know that in the service... one must always choose the lesser of two weevils?
Re: Late Fourteenth Century Arming Garments II: The Upper Bo
Char, you can find it referenced on my Grande Assiette article on cottesimple.com. It's one of the thumbnail links to images showing quilting patterns that mimic or follow the grande assiette construction seams. Lemme look... ok, here it is:Charlotte J wrote:Tailoress wrote:I'm pretty sure it's a diamond pattern to the quilting. Other parts of the drawing are sloppy and imprecise, so the fact that the lines do not precisely reach edge to edge of the sleeve is in keeping with the rest of the image. Diamond patterns are seen in various figural depictions of quilted garments. And many such garments have more than one pattern on them. I would not over-think this one.PartsAndTechnical wrote:Gustovic wrote:No, IMHO that's just the pattern of the romboidal quilting. There's no way that points could overlap like that with the arm posotioned in that way =).
Im not so sure.
Fully agree.
P&T, can you provide a reference on that image? I just happen to be quilting one right now, and haven't decided upon sleeve quilting design. That's pretty spiffy.
There's a page here too, but it will require some Google Translate action:Heinrich Wittenwiler: Der Ring Schwaben (?), 1410, Pergament, 57 Blätter Signatur: Cgm 9300, Bl.1v.
http://www.bsb-muenchen.de/Heinrich-Wit ... 491.0.html
Latest blog post: Pourpoint of Charles VI of France article now available in digital format!
Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern
To follow my arts and research, check out my La cotte simple facebook page.
Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern
To follow my arts and research, check out my La cotte simple facebook page.