Identify the manuscript this came from?

[Tailoress]

I have this image, but I don't know where I got it. Having trouble finding it online. Can anyone help me find out what manuscript it came from; what folio? Sorry for the smallness and washed-out look. I can't find the original I thought I had.

[Sean M]

My library is packed away, but I am almost sure that that is in Edge and Paddock's chapter on the 14th century. Do they cite a source?

[Ernst]

I've found it used in about 9 sites online, but none document its origin. Sean may have the best lead.

[Tailoress]

Sean, thanks for suggesting it, but I just flipped through the entire book and no luck. Please keep thinking about it, guys! It may drive me around the bend if I don't get this answer soon.

[Mac]

Tasha,

Like Sean, I felt sure that it must be in Edge and Paddock. I looked through it twice before I remembered where it really was.

It's in Norman's "Arms and Armour", on page 24 (fig 33) Unfortunately, it is not cited any better than "from a late 14th C manuscript in the British Museum". I checked in the picture credits, but there is no further info there.

Mac

[Ernst]

A slightly better copy, but no source from the blogger who used it.

[Tailoress]

I went through the digitized manuscripts online for the British Museum, but I didn't find anything. Mind you, my search wasn't exhaustive... Sigh..

Thanks Mac!

Thanks Alcy!

Thanks Ernst!

[Ernst]

There's a Yahoo Group, Stargrunts, that has the miniature on their homepage. I've contacted the administrator, and he's responded. Perhaps he'll come up with a source.

[Sean M]

A slightly better copy, but no source from the blogger who used it.

Norman's fig. 33 is large and in full colour, and his book is not expensive, so I suspect that he is the ultimate source of most of the versions online. Its a Latin text about St. George, if that helps at all.

[Ernst]

Wiki gives it as being from a Book of Hours, now in the British Library.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Saint ... minure.jpg

[Tailoress]

OK, we're getting closer. I don't think it's in any of the books of hours that are dated to the 14thc in the British Library's limited digitized collection, but I'll go back and look again. Either way, I'm within range of a source, thanks to all of your help.

How the heck did you guys track it down online? Is there an engine where you can attach images and it can find other, similar images from that? Am I showing a profound ditziness by even asking this question? (Don't answer that last question...)

[James B.]

I think I might have the complete info from the BL at home but would not have time to look until after Kalamazoo. Looks like the BL online catalog is down at this time.

[Heinrich H]

OK, we're getting closer. I don't think it's in any of the books of hours that are dated to the 14thc in the British Library's limited digitized collection, but I'll go back and look again. Either way, I'm within range of a source, thanks to all of your help.

How the heck did you guys track it down online? Is there an engine where you can attach images and it can find other, similar images from that? Am I showing a profound ditziness by even asking this question? (Don't answer that last question...)

Goooogleeee.. picturesearch are some help.

[Tailoress]

OK, we're getting closer. I don't think it's in any of the books of hours that are dated to the 14thc in the British Library's limited digitized collection, but I'll go back and look again. Either way, I'm within range of a source, thanks to all of your help.

How the heck did you guys track it down online? Is there an engine where you can attach images and it can find other, similar images from that? Am I showing a profound ditziness by even asking this question? (Don't answer that last question...)

Goooogleeee.. picturesearch are some help.

I dug around and I saw what you meant -- you upload an image and google searches for the actual image uploaded, not by a text string. Cool. This was never on my radar before!

[James B.]

Damn I looked when I got home and all I have written is that its 1390s and a Book of Hours. Early on I failed to take all the information down for manuscripts sometimes.

However I did upload my two images from that book which might be bigger than your own. I downloaded them before the BL started shrinking the images:

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww28 ... f28294.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww28 ... bfb746.jpg

[Tailoress]

Thanks, James. I'm using it as the cover image on my slide presentation for Saturday. It's just so purty, and it makes a nice background image. *sigh* Luckily I don't need it for the body of the paper. If I'm not able to cite the manuscript, I think I'd feel dirty using it to make a point as part of my paper.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

If you're interested in having a direct citation, I offer this one in exchange:

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/legenda ... xvii/1866/

[Cellach_macChormach]

From the wiki description of the image (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Saint ... minure.jpg):
Description Saint Georges terrassant le dragon
Date Fin du XIVème siècle
Source Livre d'heures, Londres, British Library
Author Anomyme
Looks like that is in French to me, maybe you can find "Livre d'heures" online?

[Tailoress]

If you're interested in having a direct citation, I offer this one in exchange:

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/legenda ... xvii/1866/

Indeed I love that one, Gregory. I have that one in my Martial Surcottes slides/notes on my site. Just wanted to use something new-to-me.

[Tailoress]

From the wiki description of the image (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Saint ... minure.jpg):
Description Saint Georges terrassant le dragon
Date Fin du XIVème siècle
Source Livre d'heures, Londres, British Library
Author Anomyme
Looks like that is in French to me, maybe you can find "Livre d'heures" online?

It translates to:

"File: Saint George and the dragon illumination
Description: Saint George slaying the dragon
Date: End of the 14th century
Source: Book of Hours, London, British Library
Author: Anonymous"

That's about as much as we already knew.

I've been digging in the British Library's online manuscripts; I have a few more places to check in that stash. If they don't have it digitized yet, I doubt I'll find more info about it elsewhere at this point. However, the BL just put something online in the last few months that I needed for my Charles VI paper coming out in July. I was overjoyed to find it in the public domain by their say-so. Saves me about a hundred bucks and a lot of hassle. It pays to check back on their site regularly. New stuff all the time.

[Galfrid atte grene]

I found it.

This is from BL Add. 23145.

[Ernst]

What, no folio number?!

Leave it to the expert...

[Tailoress]

I found it.

This is from BL Add. 23145.

Closer still...! Thank you. I just plugged that into the search on the BL site and no luck. Must not be online-digitized yet. Phooey.

Now I just need: folio, date confirmation, and geographic origin.

[Galfrid atte grene]

You can find date confirmation and origin (France) at the BL's site, here: http://imagesonline.bl.uk/index.php?ser ... q=%2314204 (click on the image for details)
This link is for a different folio of the same manuscript. I am still looking for the folio number of the image in question.

[Galfrid atte grene]

And found the folio: 36r.
See: http://books.google.com/books?id=8rytlD ... &q&f=false

[Ernst]

You da man!