Earliest date to which we can document kettle helmets?

[Steve S.]

What is the earliest date to which we can date kettle helmets?

I can find no artwork that dates them prior to 1200.

Supposedly the Documentaria Anglo (circa 1478) dates them to 1011, but I do not know if this claim can be substantiated.

I'd like to use one for a 3rd Crusade impression, but so far I'm not finding anything to support their use by 1192.

Steve

[white mountain armoury]

There is some art depicting Olaf Haraldsson, aka "St Olaf" and soldiers in a boat, one is clearly wearing a kettle, the problem is I have hundred of books and cant begin to recall what book its in.
If I can come up with it I will let you know.
Lewis Isle chess piece 1150/1200 has a kettle varient as well.

[Steve S.]

Ah yes, the Lewis Chess Pieces! I had forgotten about them!



Steve

[Ernst]

Another Lewis example which may show a flat-top kettle hat. The National Museums of Scotland gives the possibility that these are post 3rd Crusade, "They were probably made in Trondheim in Norway during the late 12th and early 13th centuries, when the area in which the chessmen were buried was part of the Kingdom of Norway, not Scotland." While the British Museum is a bit more restrictive on date, and more open on source, "Probably made in Scandinavia, thought to be Norway, about AD 1150-1200."

Lewis Kettle.jpg (44.29 KiB) Viewed 752 times

[Ernst]

There is some art depicting Olaf Haraldsson, aka "St Olaf" and soldiers in a boat, one is clearly wearing a kettle, the problem is I have hundred of books and cant begin to recall what book its in.
If I can come up with it I will let you know.

Probably the Hardenberg Codex, which DKB considers to be 14th century.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4477/12000/

[white mountain armoury]

Actually Ernst that's not it.
I may go through some books now and see what I can find.

[Steve S.]

It would be nice to document kettle's to the 3rd Crusade.

Steve

[Egfroth]

It would be nice to document kettle's to the 3rd Crusade.

Steve

Can do. Look at the helmet of the crossbowman in the fourth picture from the top here - Peter of Eboli's Liber ad Honorem Augusti produced c. 1194-6 in Italy, 2-4 years after the end of the Third Crusade of 1189-92 and including the events of that Crusade, such as the death of Frederick Barbarossa and the capture and imprisonment of Richard Coeur de Lion.

[Ernst]

Egfroth,
Can we be sure this is a kettle hat and not a cloth hat?
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/3966/11574/

[Steve S.]

I agree it's hard to say if it's a helm or a hat.

Any other evidence for kettle helms of the era?

Steve

[Egfroth]

It could certainly be interpreted as either, but it is the earliest evidence I know of that suggests kettle hats may have existed at the time. Apart from a Byzantine representation of Goliath from the 11th century which shows him in a helmet which to my mind is more like a small-rimmed morion than a kettle hat. Take it as you will.

[Clinker]

it seems to me that Carolingian cavalry troopers are often depicted wearing kettle hat/morion-like helmets in period illustrations.

[Len Parker]

Kettle helm history http://livinghistory.cz/node/85

[Ernst]

Thanks Len! That's a pretty good summary for the 13th century differentiations. As I remember we've got good numbers to make a replica of the Legnano hat as well.