Scottish Jacks

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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Ernst »

Considering the friendly relations between Scots and French during this period, I believe Louis XI's description (of which I'm sure you were already familiar) should be added, dated to the reign 1461-1483. The description of deerskin covers seems to affix the two, Scottish and French jacks.
https://books.google.com/books?id=qVBIA ... es&f=false
Mémoire de ce que le Roy vault, que le Francs-Archers de son royaume soient habillez en Jaques d'icy en avant, et pour ce à charge au Bailly de Mante en faire un get: et semble au dit Bailly de Mante que l'abillement de Jacques leur soit bien proufitable, et avantageux pour faire la guerre, veu que sont gens de pié et que en ayant les brigandines, il leur faut porter beaucoup de choses, que un homme seul et à pie ne peut faire. Et premièrement leur faut desdit Jacques de 30 toilles où de 25 a ung cuir de cerf à tout le moins; et si sont de 31 cuir de serf ils sont des bons. Les toilles usées et déliées moyennement sont les meilleurs et doivent estre les Jacques à quatre quartiers, et faut que les manches soient fortes, comme le corps réservé le cuir. Et doit être l'assiette des manches grande et que l'assiette prengne près du collet, non pas sur l'os de l'espaule qui soit large dessous l'aisselle, et plantureux dessous le bras, asses faulce et large sur les costes bas. Le collet fort comme le demourant du Jacques: et que le collet ne soit pas trop hault derriere, pour l'amour de salade. Et faut que le dit Jacques soit lasse devant et que il ait dessous une porte piece de la force du dit Jacques. Ainsi sera seur le dit Jacques et aise moien nant qu'il ait un Pourpoint sans manches ne colet, de deux toilles seulement, qui n aura que quatre doys de large sur l'espaule au quell Pourpoint il attachera ses chausses. Ainsi flotera dedens son Jacques, et sera a son aise: car il ne vit onques tuer de coups de main, ne de fleche desdans les dits Jacques ses homes, et se y souloient les gens bian combattre.

Memoire in what manner the king chooses that the Free Archers of his kingdom should be clothed in Jacks from henceforth, and for which he has commissioned his Baillif of Mante to give in a design. And it appears to the said Baillif of Mante that the vestment of Jacks would be good for them, profitable and advantageous for the purposes of war, seeing that they are infantry and that in having Brigandines, they may carry many more things than a man alone and on foot could otherwise do. And first there wants for those Jacks 30 or 25 cloths, and a buck-skin at least, and if they be of 30 and a buck skin they are best. Cloths, second hand, and undone, nevertheless are better, and the Jacques should be in four quarters, and the sleeves should be as strong as the bodies, with the exception of the leather; and the make of the sleeves should be large, and the shape should draw in near the collar, not on the back of the shoulder, which must be wide under the armpits, and plentiful under the arms, sufficiently loose and broad on the sides below. The collar should be like the rest of the Jacks, and this collar must not be too high behind for the sake of the salade. And these Jacques should be laced before, and that there be below a port piece of the strength of the said Jacks. Thus these Jacks will be sure and easy, notwithstanding they are worn with a Pourpoint without sleeves or collar, of two cloths only which is only four fingers wide on the shoulder. To this Pourpoint the chausses will be attached. Thus the wearer will float in his Jack and be at his ease. For the Baillif has never seen six men in the said Jacks killed by stabs, or by the piercing of arrows, of those who were men accustomed to fight.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Ernst »

"... and the sleeves should be as strong as the bodies, with the exception of the leather;..."

Would the lack of deerskin covering on the sleeves reduce the defensive capability enough to warrant the addition of strips of mail?
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Sean M »

Ernst wrote:Does anyone have the original text from Dominic Mancini which describes the English archer's soft "tunics stuffed with tow"? I have grown dubious that tunica is the specific word.
My library seems to have a text and translation of the booklet de occupatione Regni Anglie per Riccardum Tercium by the Clarendon Press. I will update this post with the Latin text when it arrives.

Edit: C.A.J., Armstrong ed., The Usurpation of Richard the Third, Second Edition (Clarendon Press: Oxford, 1969) p. 98: Vulgus vero militum tunicas habet aptiores, infra inguen demissas, stupa sive alia molli referctas. Ictus sagittarum et gladiorum tanto melius sustinere eas dicunt, quanto molliores sunt, preterea estate minus graves quam ferrum, et hyme utiliores.

Mancini wrote good classical Latin, and Armstrong's translation of this chapter is quite literal ("more comfortable tunics that reach down below the loins and are stuffed with tow or some other soft material"), but I could give my own version if someone really wants it.
Last edited by Sean M on Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Ernst wrote:"... and the sleeves should be as strong as the bodies, with the exception of the leather;..."

Would the lack of deerskin covering on the sleeves reduce the defensive capability enough to warrant the addition of strips of mail?
It's possible that the addition of the leather reduces the flexibility of the sleeves too much so they use mail instead.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Dan Howard »

The Tudor Tailor project looks interesting. Looking forward to buying their new book, Doublets of Defence. £20 seems a reasonable price.

http://www.tudortailor.com/news/whats-n ... f-defence/
http://toplocalplaces.com/united-kingdo ... 1063734495
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Dan Howard »

Ernst wrote:Considering the friendly relations between Scots and French during this period, I believe Louis XI's description (of which I'm sure you were already familiar) should be added, dated to the reign 1461-1483. The description of deerskin covers seems to affix the two, Scottish and French jacks.
The ordinance of St. Maximin de Treves (October 1473) should probably be included here too for completeness.

"The mounted archer must possess a horse worth not less than six francs, and should wear a visorless sallet, a gorget, a brigandine, or a sleeveless mail shirt under a ten layer jack"
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Ernst »

Dan Howard wrote:
Ernst wrote:Considering the friendly relations between Scots and French during this period, I believe Louis XI's description (of which I'm sure you were already familiar) should be added, dated to the reign 1461-1483. The description of deerskin covers seems to affix the two, Scottish and French jacks.
The ordinance of St. Maximin de Treves (October 1473) should probably be included here too for completeness.

"The mounted archer must possess a horse worth not less than six francs, and should wear a visorless sallet, a gorget, a brigandine, or a sleeveless mail shirt under a ten layer jack"
Got original text?
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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This is from Ffoulkes. Does anyone want to try translating it?

Ordonnances des Metiers de Paris (1296), p. 371.

"Que nus (armuriers) ne puisse fere cote ne gamboison de tele dont I'envers et I'endroit ne soit de tele noeve, et dedenz de coton et de plois de toiles, et einsi que est qu'il soient dedenz d'escroes.

It, Si Ten fait cote ne gamboison dont I'endroit soit de cendal et I'envers soit de tele, si veulent il que ele soit noeve et se il i a ploit dedenz de tele ne de cendal, que le plus cort ploit soit de demie aune et de demi quartier de lone au meins devant, et autant derrieres, et les autres plois Ions ensuians. Et si il i a borre de soie qui le lit de la bourre soit de demi aune et demy quaritier au meins devant et autant derrieres et se il i a coton, que le coton vienge tout contreval jusques au piez.

Que nules d'ores en avant ne puisse faire cote gamboisee ou il n'ait 3 livres de coton tout neit, se elles ne sont faites en sicines et au dessous soient faites entre mains que il y ait un pli de viel linge empres I'endroit de demi aune et demi quartier devant et autant derriere."
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Dan Howard »

Another entry from Ffoulkes

Harl. MS. 4780. Inventory of Edward IV (1470).
Item a doublet of crimson velvet lined with Hollande cloth and interlined with busk.

And another. My French isn't good enough to attempt a translation

Traite d'un Tournoi, King Rene (c.1450).

"...que ledit harnoys soit si large et si ample que on puisse vestir et mettre dessoulz ung porpoint ou courset ; et fault que le porpoint soit faultre de trys dois d'espez sur les espaules, et au long des bras jusques au col.

En Brabant, Flandre et Haynault et en ce pays-la vers les Almaignes, ont acoustome d'eulx armer de la personne autrement au tournoy : car ils prennent ung demy porpoint de deux toilles... de quatre dois d'espez et remplis de couton."



BTW the book is out of copyright now and is available for download.
https://archive.org/details/armourerhiscraft00ffouuoft
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Cap'n Atli »

Wouldn't a Scottish "Jack" be a "Jock?"

:P
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Sean M wrote:I would still be very interested if chef or anyone else could give information on soft armours from the British Isles in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, not armours where plates or maille inside a soft cover provided most of the protection.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/EEWills ... efence#hl2

Fifty earliest English wills in the Court of Probate, London : A. D. 1387-1439 : with a priest's of 1454
Church of England. Province of Canterbury. Prerogative Court.

Frederick J. Furnivall
THOMAS TVOKY, ESQUIRE, 1418.

also a Doubeled̛ of defence couered̛ with red̛ Leþer;....
Also a Dobelet couered̛ with Blak gote Leþer̛;
also a doublet of defence covered with red leather...
Also a doublet (whether for defense or civil use is not specified) covered with black goat leather
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Cap'n Atli wrote:Wouldn't a Scottish "Jack" be a "Jock?"

:P
Dome wes geven and pronounceit be the mouthe of the dempster of the said court at commande of the said iustice deput that the said Cap'n Atli suld be hangit quhill he were deid drawin quaterit & demanit as ane traitor and all his guides movabill & vnmovabill landes heretageis, annual rentes takis officis steidings possessions & vtheres quhatsumeuer to be forfaultit & escheit to our souerane ladyes vse to be vsit & despousit be her majestie at hir plessur.

And rightly such is the punishment for wickedly and wilfully corrupting Her Majesty's language and bringing the twin pains of mirth and merriment down upon the Armour Archive.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Dan, Lighten Up! :lol:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/court- ... /pp473-479
Will of Henry Barton, skinner
London, 31 July 1434


To Ralph his brother he leaves two silver jugs, his Basinet his palet garnished with silver, and his Jakke of red Velewet.


And an interesting complaint of adulterated stuffing materials, a common problem legislated against unto the present day:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/london ... ight-first

Petition of the Upholsterers Concerning Deceptive Stuffing Material
27 July, 14 Edward IV. (A.D. 1474)
And for asmoche as Fetherbeddes and bolsters stuffed wt Fedders and Flokkes Pelewes of down stuffed wt thistill downe and Cattes Tailles Materas stuffed wt here and Flokkes and sold for Flokkes Materasse of netis here and hors here which is called Tanners here Jakkes made with Roten Cloth and paynted clothes of old wollen cloth Quysshens stuffed wt here and sold for Flokkes which been deceivably made to the hurt of the Kynges liege people
And as much as "feather-beds and bolsters" stuffed with feathers and flocks, "Pillows of down" stuffed with thistledown and cattails (sp. asteraceae and typha), Mattresses stuffed with hair and flocks and sold for "flocks", Mattresses of netis(?) hair and horse hair which is called "Tanners" here, Jacks made with rotten cloth and painted cloths of old wool, cushions stuffed with hair and sold for "flocks" which has been deceptively made to the harm of the King's subjects.
flock (2)
[flok]
noun
1. a lock or tuft of wool, hair, cotton, etc.
2. (sometimes used with a plural verb) wool refuse, shearings of cloth, old cloth torn to pieces, or the like, for upholstering furniture, stuffing mattresses, etc.
3. Also called flocking. ( sometimes used with a plural verb) finely powdered wool, cloth, etc., used for producing a velvetlike pattern on wallpaper or cloth or for coating metal.
I know some Sudanese quilted armors are stuffed with kapok, the same as old orange flotation vests. Maybe Scottish jacks should be stuffed with thistledown.... :wink:
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Context suggests "athir" is "either."
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Konstantin the Red wrote:Context suggests "athir" is "either."
Thank you. I've edited it in to the text. I was thinking "other" but it didn't make sense.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Cap'n Atli wrote:Wouldn't a Scottish "Jack" be a "Jock?"

:P
Only if you're wearing it in a very funny place. Weel, 'twoud leave yuir enemis helpless with laughing, and easy took captive.
"Que nus (armuriers) ne puisse fere cote ne gamboison de tele dont I'envers et I'endroit ne soit de tele noeve, et dedenz de coton et de plois de toiles, et einsi que est qu'il soient dedenz d'escroes.
That we armourers could make neither cote nor gambeson of fabric, which the lining and outside not being of new fabric, and of cotton inside, and of more fabrics, and also that they be inside (of I don't know what escroes might be).

Not sure if the last refers to more layers of fabric, or if they mean other fabric, such as new fabric vice the elderly linen well thought of for jack use for its softness combined with long-fibered toughness. New linen was a bit too stiff; it needed to be broken in.
It, Si Ten fait cote ne gamboison dont I'endroit soit de cendal et I'envers soit de tele, si veulent il que ele soit noeve et se il i a ploit dedenz de tele ne de cendal, que le plus cort ploit soit de demie aune et de demi quartier de lone au meins devant, et autant derrieres, et les autres plois Ions ensuians. Et si il i a borre de soie qui le lit de la bourre soit de demi aune et demy quaritier au meins devant et autant derrieres et se il i a coton, que le coton vienge tout contreval jusques au piez.
Item, if having made [neither?] cote nor gambeson of which the outside should be of cendal and the lining of tele [maybe tulle?], if desired that it be new and if there be (ploit) within of tele nor of cendal, which the shortest cut (ploit) be half of (aune) and half-quartered of the one at least in the front -- and also in the back, and the other (ploits -- portions, parts, quarters?) following suit. And if there is (borre) of silk which the bed of the (bourre -- same as borre?) should be of quartered of (one and the other?), at least in front and even in back; and if there is cotton, that the cotton should come all (contreval) unto the feet.

"Unto" seems the best one-word translation for the "all the way down to the feet" apparent sense of the last, however affected it may seem. The continual use of the subjunctive throughout has me looking for some resolution of what these paragraphs are being subjunctive about. Legal language?
Que nules d'ores en avant ne puisse faire cote gamboisee ou il n'ait 3 livres de coton tout neit, se elles ne sont faites en sicines et au dessous soient faites entre mains que il y ait un pli de viel linge empres I'endroit de demi aune et demi quartier devant et autant derriere."
That (nules d'ores) henceforth could not make gamboised cotes with less than three pounds [livres*] of cotton in them, which they are not made (en sicines) and beneath are worked between hands, of which there should be a ply of old linen within the outer layer quartered of the one and the other in front and also behind.

Certainly "de demi aune et demi quartier" seems to want a more experienced head than mine to handle authoritatively -- something less in the way of French Impressionism. :roll: The impression being that they meant "tailored in quarters" all the way through. Anyway, it was good linguistic exercise for me.

*Per Wiki, .4895kg. .4895 x 3 = 1.4785 kilos cotton in there, but who's counting?
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Konstantin the Red wrote:
"Que nus (armuriers) ne puisse fere cote ne gamboison de tele dont I'envers et I'endroit ne soit de tele noeve, et dedenz de coton et de plois de toiles, et einsi que est qu'il soient dedenz d'escroes.
That we armourers could make neither cote nor gambeson of fabric, which the lining and outside not being of new fabric, and of cotton inside, and of more fabrics, and also that they be inside (of I don't know what escroes might be).

Not sure if the last refers to more layers of fabric, or if they mean other fabric, such as new fabric vice the elderly linen well thought of for jack use for its softness combined with long-fibered toughness. New linen was a bit too stiff; it needed to be broken in.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=escrow
escrow (n.)
1590s, from Anglo-French escrowe, from Old French escroe "scrap, small piece, rag, tatter, single parchment," from a Germanic source akin to Old High German scrot "a scrap, shred, a piece cut off" (see shred (n.)). Originally a deed delivered to a third person until a future condition is satisfied, which led to sense of "deposit held in trust or security" (1888).
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Konstantin the Red »

So it was permitted to piece the inner layers together from whatever scraps of the required material were to hand then. Makes perfect sense -- gets there from talking about "scraps inside."

No joy yet on "tele" -- and "tulle" only dates to the nineteenth century. A French town by that name began making it then.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Possibly? "Middle English toile, from French toile ("cloth"), from Old French teile, from Latin tela ("web"),"
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/dost/jak_n_2

Source: Acta Conc. [1478–1532] The Acts of the Lords of Council in Civil Causes. (Acta Dominorum Concilii.), vol. II 1496–1501, Thomson, T. (ed.); Commissioners on the Public Records of Great Britain; Edinburgh 1918.
1500 Acta Conc. II. 468.
To restore … ane jak with ane fald of mailye;

Source: Treas. Acc. [v.d.] Compota thesaurariorum Regum Scotorum. Dickson, Thomas (ed.); H.M. General Register House, Edinburgh, 1877.
1503 Treas. Acc. II. 232.
For iij skinnis of ledder to the said jak fra the waist doun;

Source: Treas. Acc. [v.d.] Compota thesaurariorum Regum Scotorum. Dickson, Thomas (ed.); H.M. General Register House, Edinburgh, 1877.
1504 Ib. 451.
For tua hidis to be jakkis;

Source: Bann. MS [1568] The Bannatyne Manuscript written in Tyme of Pest. Bannatyne, George; STS ii 22, 23, 26, iii 5, Edinburgh, 1927–32. Quoted by folio of original and line, except the ‘draft’ MS (in STS iii 5) which is quoted by page of original and line. (DOST Lib.) Also HC i. Original MS NLS Adv. 1.1.6.
1568 Bann. MS. 138 a/51.
I haif … fyve fidder of raggis to stuff ane jak;

(Possibly fyve fiddek? "FIDDACK, n. Also fiddi(c)k, fuddik; fiddek, fe(i)dek, fodek (Jak.). A wooden bucket (Sh. 1866 Edm. Gl.; Sh.10 1951); a keg." DSL gives fidder as "flutter", or the notches used to mark sheep's ears, i.e. "feathered" both of which make little sense for a volume of rags. - Mart)

The reference appears in The Wowing of Jok and Jynny :o Jok has 5 buckets of rags to stuff a jak....
https://books.google.com/books?id=J70xA ... ak&f=false
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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I have added the key sentences of Mancini's Latin above. I have copied the whole two pages for another project which I am working on. The usual translation is pretty literal; the only thing which made me frown was seeing that all the British youths fight with a stick and a ferreus umbo not an iron shield. If you aren't allowed to say “buckler” because that word is newfangled, saying “boss” seems like a pretty good substitute to me.
Cap'n Atli wrote:Wouldn't a Scottish "Jack" be a "Jock?"

:P
A pun worthy of a sea-robber!
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Ernst »

I'm shocked that tunica is actually translated as tunic! Thanks, Sean.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Ernst wrote:I'm shocked that tunica is actually translated as tunic! Thanks, Sean.
Well, sometimes lightning strikes twice, and sometimes a scholar before the war does a pretty good job with the material culture while translating a book about something else! It is a parallel-text edition first published in 1934, so I think the good Dr. Armstrong expected people to skim through the English then read the parts which were important to them in the Latin.

I hope to read the Paris 1296 (and later) and Angers 1488 rules this summer for that project, and I may translate some of the more interesting bits.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

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Konstantin the Red wrote:
Que nules d'ores en avant ne puisse faire cote gamboisee ou il n'ait 3 livres de coton tout neit, se elles ne sont faites en sicines et au dessous soient faites entre mains que il y ait un pli de viel linge empres I'endroit de demi aune et demi quartier devant et autant derriere."
That (nules d'ores) henceforth could not make gamboised cotes with less than three pounds [livres*] of cotton in them, which they are not made (en sicines) and beneath are worked between hands, of which there should be a ply of old linen within the outer layer quartered of the one and the other in front and also behind.

Certainly "de demi aune et demi quartier" seems to want a more experienced head than mine to handle authoritatively -- something less in the way of French Impressionism. :roll: The impression being that they meant "tailored in quarters" all the way through. Anyway, it was good linguistic exercise for me.

*Per Wiki, .4895kg. .4895 x 3 = 1.4785 kilos cotton in there, but who's counting?
K -

One of the problems I've always had for this passage is whether that 3.25 lbs. of cotton is for the whole coat, or for each quarter panel. A good pair of blue jeans can easily weigh 1.5 lbs. without any padding.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Ernst »

https://books.google.com/books?id=meoU4_UxKcgC

The Inventory of all the goods & cattels wares marchadisse as well moveable as vnmoveable p'teing to will'm walton Drap' in Durh'm laytley disceased praysed by hew whitfeld thomas whitfeld Rob't Potter & will' harpr Ann Dom'i 1566 in October
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IN THE LITLE CHAMBER.
.....A Jack a p'r of sleves of mayle x^s



The inventory of all the goods, chattels, wares, & merchandise, moveable and unmovable, pertaining to William Walton, cloth merchant in Durham, lately deceased, appraised by Hugh Whitfield, Thomas Whitfield, Robert Potter, & William Harper, October 1566 a.d.
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In the small room.
.....A jack, a pair of mail sleeves, 10 shillings

(Really didn't need to translate that...lol)
Northern England arms held by a merchant. It seems jacks were only made with sleeves when no other arm armor was available.
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Konstantin the Red
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Konstantin the Red »

Ernst wrote:
Que nules d'ores en avant ne puisse faire cote gamboisee ou il n'ait 3 livres de coton tout neit, se elles ne sont faites en sicines et au dessous soient faites entre mains que il y ait un pli de viel linge empres I'endroit de demi aune et demi quartier devant et autant derriere."
One of the problems I've always had for this passage is whether that 3.25 lbs. of cotton is for the whole coat, or for each quarter panel.
Well, I don't see anything that might be "par quartier" up there, and until otherwise schooled I'm taking "tout neit" as something like net, or total. "En sicines" continues elusive even googling in French -- keeps landing on "les science" et tout celà en français moderne. Made en sicines? Prepared that way? Does the word-root have to do with cutting or sections?
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Ernst »

Romance language, default goes to Latin - "like that", so, thus....

http://latinlexicon.org/definition.php?p1=2054676

It is worth noting that the 3 pounds of cotton is set as a minimum allowed.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Ernst »

Dan Howard wrote:Another entry from Ffoulkes

And another. My French isn't good enough to attempt a translation

Traite d'un Tournoi, King Rene (c.1450).

"...que ledit harnoys soit si large et si ample que on puisse vestir et mettre dessoulz ung porpoint ou courset ; et fault que le porpoint soit faultre de trys dois d'espez sur les espaules, et au long des bras jusques au col.

En Brabant, Flandre et Haynault et en ce pays-la vers les Almaignes, ont acoustome d'eulx armer de la personne autrement au tournoy : car ils prennent ung demy porpoint de deux toilles... de quatre dois d'espez et remplis de couton."
Perhaps a fuller context than given by ffoulkes, but lorenzo2 has given us this in other threads on the Archive. I think the bracers (arms/sleeves) 4 fingers thick refers to those ball-shaped shoulders of garments in this period.
lorenzo2 wrote:Here is what Rene de Anjou says about this subject refering to specialized tournament armour (1460s);

Item, the body harness is like a cuirass or like the foot harness that one calls a tonnelet. And also you may well tourney in a brigandine if you wish; but in whatever kind of body harness you wish to tourney, it is necessary that the harness be big and ample enough in all places that you may wear a pourpoint or corset underneath. It is necessary that the pourpoint be padded to three fingers' thickness on the shoulders and the length of the arms up to the neck, and on the back also, because the blows of maces and swords fall more frequently on these places than elsewhere. . .

In Brabant, Flanders and Hainault, and in those countries near the Germanies, they are accustomed to arms themselves differently for a tourney. They take a demi-pourpoint of two layers, not more, padded in the back and over the abdomen; and then over this a bracer, four fingers thick and stuffed with cotton. Over this they put on vambraces and rerebraces of cuir boulli, reinforced with five or six small rods the thickness of a finger, glued on, that run the length of the arm just to the joints. And for the shoulders and the elbow, the rerebraces and vambraces are made like those shown above, except that they are bigger and heavier; and they are well padded in front. And a double layer of cloth holds the rerebrace and the vambrace together like a mail sleeve. Over all this they wear a light brigandine with a perforated breast like that shown below. And as for the head armor, they have a great bascinet with a camail without a visor, and they attach the camail under the brigandine all around, to the breast and on the shoulders with strong laces. And over all this they put a great helm made all in one piece of cuir bouilli and perforated below, the size of a wooden trencher, and the eyeslot is barred with iron in a grid three fingers square, which is attached in front by a chain to the breast of the brigandine, so that you may hang it from the saddle to refresh youself, and put it on again when you wish.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Ernst »

Ernst wrote:And an interesting complaint of adulterated stuffing materials, a common problem legislated against unto the present day:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/london ... ight-first

Petition of the Upholsterers Concerning Deceptive Stuffing Material
27 July, 14 Edward IV. (A.D. 1474)
Materasse of netis here and hors here which is called Tanners here
Mattresses of netis(?) hair and horse hair which is called "Tanners" hair...
Since I was unsure what this meant, I was surprised to find it listed in modern US Regulations:
http://www.americanlawlabel.com/law-lab ... ng-center/
What is a Law Label?
The purpose of the law label is to inform the consumer of the hidden contents, or “filling materials” inside bedding & furniture products.
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Filling materials glossary
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TANNERS WOOL
Wool Blends or Mixtures (Blended Wool)
Wool Felt
Wool Batt
Wool Batting Blended
Wool Felt
Now this was used in matresses, but opens the possibility for some sort of wool felt stuffing for armors.


Netis is possibly an alternate spelling for netes, hence "neatsfoot oil" rendered from cattle shins.
http://www.lexilogos.com/english/scots_dictionary.htm
NETES, s. pi. [Horned cattle ; skynne of
nete, cow-skin, dressed whole, i.e., with the
hair, like furs. Isl. naut, cattle.]
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by Sean M »

The Royal Armouries took a pattern off jack of plates III.1278 then took photos of their mockup next to the original (!) https://royalarmouries.org/why-preparat ... =hootsuite

The think the original was made in the 1560s.
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Re: Scottish Jacks

Post by jenzinas »

Thank you for that link!
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