Traditional Armor Finishing Processes

[Mac]

I would like to open a discussion about finishing processes for armor. The title has the work "traditional" in it, but that does not mean that we should limit ourselves to preindustrial processes. Rather, I hope that we can use the idea of early technologies as a sort of anchor or focus that we can revolve around and return to. What I would like, ultimately, is to have an understanding of how our ancestors dealt with the process so that we can apply that to our modern shops.

Mac

[Mac]

There is a collection of images of armor polishers (along with related crafts) here https://www.pinterest.com/macs_shop/arm ... polishers/


Mac

[Sean M]

People who missed the Arms and Armour Forum thread on polishing will want to check out the videos Der Blaupließter (the blue-polisher) and The grinding musem in Solingen - Schleifermuseum Balkhauser Kotten - Fine grinding and polishing. I think that the polishing guilds polished all kinds of different things not just armour.

Theophilius is always worth a read even though he describes other crafts.

[Mac]

Thanks for the link to that thread, Sean! I had more or less forgotten about it.

Mac

[Mac]

Sean,

In the first part of the Der Blaupließter video, at around 11:40, the polisher takes the rough-ground blades, anoints them with an oil and emery paste and applies them to a wheel. I don't have nearly enough German to tell if they say what the wheel is made of. Can you tell?

Mac

[Gustovic]

I can add one thing.

Datini, a late XIVth century armour merchant, stated that punching holes in a bascinet is more expensive than polishing it.

2 soldi for planishing and griding (molatura)

24 soldi for punching holes for liner and vervelles (traversatura)

[Mac]

2 soldi for planishing and griding (molatura)

Can we tell if molatura mean grinding and polishing, or just grinding?

24 soldi for punching holes for liner and vervelles (traversatura)

Does the wording make it clear that this is just for the punching?... or could it include the vervelles and lining as well?

Mac

[Jason Grimes]

I don't know if this would help, or if we have talked about this before. I came across a woodcut of a panorama of Cologne from 1531. It depicts floating barges with water wheels and buildings that were anchored in the river. I was thinking that these could have been used for grinding wheat or other grains, but they could have also been used for metal grinding as well. There are no smoke stacks so I'm assuming any kind of forging would be out (probably wouldn't work very well anyways). I was just amazed that they went to all the trouble.

cologne1.jpg (83.52 KiB) Viewed 5821 times

cologne2.jpg (92.6 KiB) Viewed 5821 times

cologne3.jpg (82.08 KiB) Viewed 5821 times

These were scanned from "The German Single-leaf Woodcut 1500-1550" at 600 DPI but I had to resize them to post. I have much higher resolution images if needed. The full images are 63 MBytes in size.

[Mac]

Very cool!

Mac

[Sean M]

Sean,

In the first part of the Der Blaupließter video, at around 11:40, the polisher takes the rough-ground blades, anoints them with an oil and emery paste and applies them to a wheel. I don't have nearly enough German to tell if they say what the wheel is made of. Can you tell?

Mac

I am having trouble with the accent and the technical words, but I hear something like:

[11:03] Das ist, uh, Naturrodum. Der sind zwei X aus ... kommt in die dunkle Farbe an. ... Pulvur ... Öl ... [11:27]Zum Pließen des Zettergarnmessers wird Schmirgelpasta in mittlerer Korngroße auf der vorgeschriftet Messer aufgetragt. Das sogennante Pließtholz dient als Werkzeug, um einem gleichmaßigen und präcisen Anbruch auf der Pließscheib zu ermöglichen. [11:46]Nach jedem pließen ist der öberfläche jedes messers feiner und glatter. Die Riefan kan ... mit der Stein verschmitten.

So the key sentences are "For polishing the something-twine-knife, emery paste in a medium grain size is spread on the required knife. The so-called polishing wood (Pließtholz) serves as a tool, to make it possible to give an even and precise contact (Anbruch) with the polishing disc (Pließscheib)." I don't hear anything about how the disc is made in that section.

It would be a great project for some of the German armourers to track these guys down and pick their brains!

[Sean M]

Thanks for the link to that thread, Sean! I had more or less forgotten about it.

Mac

You are welcome! I spent the last few months thinking a lot about polishing as part of a project. Finding and organizing information is my trade ... I just have to be careful not to spend so much time and energy doing little bits of it here that I never finish the big projects.

[Gustovic]

2 soldi for planishing and griding (molatura)

Can we tell if molatura mean grinding and polishing, or just grinding?

24 soldi for punching holes for liner and vervelles (traversatura)

Does the wording make it clear that this is just for the punching?... or could it include the vervelles and lining as well?

Mac

I think the molatura only includes planishing and grinding, not polishing.

Ah screw it, I'll write here all the costs for a bascinet, because why not.

Rondella (starting plate for the skull): 30 soldi
Piattone (starting plate for the visor): 12 soldi
Cavare (raise?) the skull and coal: 14 soldi
Tirare (raise?) the visor and coal: 4 soldi
Interesting to note that the two components undergo apparently two different processes.
Edit: now that I think about it, it makes sense. Cavare in Italian means to carve or to dig, while tirare means to pull. Perhaps the skull has been worked from the inside, while the visor from the outside.
Grinding the skull: 2 soldi
Grinding the visor: 8 soldi
Perhaps the grinding of the visor also included making the ocularia and the breathes, hence the difference in costs.
Making hinges: 8 soldi
Traversatura (punching lining and vervelles holes): 24 soldi
Perhaps this includes the vervelles themselves
Bordatura (applying the brass decoration): 20 soldi
Posare (fit the) visor on the skull: 4 soldi
Skull and aventail liner: 15 soldi
Maille aventail: 24 soldi
Sewing: 1 soldo

[tiredWeasel]

Sean, you are right - they don't say what material the disc is made of.
Unfortunately the video is a few years old and I don't know if they are still using these techniques.

But back to topic: interestingly enough in theory the traditional german gunsmith does not use power tools for polishing. I learned to polish everything with hand tools, with files.
In practice of course every gunsmith uses power tools as he sees fit because doing everything by hand takes time and thus is expensive, as we all know

[Mac]

Traversatura (punching lining and vervelles holes): 24 soldi
Perhaps this includes the vervelles themselves

When I try to parse out the word "traversatura" I get meanings that are about things that are transverse or crosswise, rather than anything that sounds like it's about punching or making holes. Am I missing something?

I think I remember Sean M saying something about having seen references to "cross filing" or perhaps "cross polishing" of armor. I wonder if this is what we're seeing here.

Mac

[Mac]

Sean,

In the first part of the Der Blaupließter video, at around 11:40, the polisher takes the rough-ground blades, anoints them with an oil and emery paste and applies them to a wheel. I don't have nearly enough German to tell if they say what the wheel is made of. Can you tell?

Mac

I am having trouble with the accent and the technical words, but I hear something like:

[11:03] Das ist, uh, Naturrodum. Der sind zwei X aus ... kommt in die dunkle Farbe an. ... Pulvur ... Öl ... [11:27]Zum Pließen des Zettergarnmessers wird Schmirgelpasta in mittlerer Korngroße auf der vorgeschriftet Messer aufgetragt. Das sogennante Pließtholz dient als Werkzeug, um einem gleichmaßigen und präcisen Anbruch auf der Pließscheib zu ermöglichen. [11:46]Nach jedem pließen ist der öberfläche jedes messers feiner und glatter. Die Riefan kan ... mit der Stein verschmitten.

So the key sentences are "For polishing the something-twine-knife, emery paste in a medium grain size is spread on the required knife. The so-called polishing wood (Pließtholz) serves as a tool, to make it possible to give an even and precise contact (Anbruch) with the polishing disc (Pließscheib)." I don't hear anything about how the disc is made in that section.

It would be a great project for some of the German armourers to track these guys down and pick their brains!

Holtzapffle's great 19th C work describes using emery and grease on wooden wheels which I think he calls "glasers". I'll look that up and cite it better.

Thanks!
Mac

[Andrew Bodley]

I came across plans for making a polishing wheel from the late 19thc/early 20th c that used walrus hide. The wheel was about 4 ft in diameter from memory. Made in two parts with the hide having slots cut out so they lock into the wooden sides. This then attached onto an arbor permanently. I don't remember if it allowed for the wheels to be changed.
At sheffield kelham island museum, there is a polishing shop that has mops that look a lot like those at Solingen, running out line shafts. I don't think there was any reference to what the work carried out was. But being sheffield it was likely cutlery.
Andrew

[Mac]

That mention of glasers is in Holtzapffel's third volume if "Turning and Mechanical Manipulation", "Abrasive and Other Processes Not Accomplished With Cutting Tools"

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... 1879335476

It's in the "Descriptive catalog of Apparatus, Materials, and Procedures for Grinding and Polishiing" section, (Wheels, D, 32) In the Astragal Press edition, it's on page 141.

Mac

[Mac]

Andrew,

In the video that Sean linked to about the Solingen museum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBEagbZxc6Y there is a bit about those wheels. They say that bull neck can be used if you can't get walrus... and that's all to the good. The individual pieces of leather are shaped a bit like keystones and they fit into a sort of dovetail dado in the edge of the wheel. Getting the last two or three in must be a challenge.

Mac

[Andrew Bodley]

Not sure if getting thick bull neck is going to be much easier than walrus. Thick hides in the UK are difficult to get hold of due to castle being slaughtered at 36 months to reduce the risk of bse (mad cow disease). Good solid shoes hides are hard to find compare to the 80's.
From memory walrus can be over an 1~1 1/2 inches thick. Bull neck would be thick but not over an inch and the structure is likely to be quite loose, a bit like belly.
The main thing I see in the different wheels is the ability to change the surface speed of the wheel. Also the different compounds they are using.
Andrew

[Mac]

Not sure if getting thick bull neck is going to be much easier than walrus. Thick hides in the UK are difficult to get hold of due to castle being slaughtered at 36 months to reduce the risk of bse (mad cow disease). Good solid shoes hides are hard to find compare to the 80's.
From memory walrus can be over an 1~1 1/2 inches thick. Bull neck would be thick but not over an inch and the structure is likely to be quite loose, a bit like belly.
The main thing I see in the different wheels is the ability to change the surface speed of the wheel. Also the different compounds they are using.
Andrew

As you say, neck is going to have loose structure, but perhaps that's desirable. If so, then maybe a wheel can be made up of belly leather, but with more pieces per circumferencial length of the whee.

[Thomas Powers]

Practical Blacksmithing, Richardson, a collection of journal articles from 1889, 1890 and 1891, has information on making your own polishing wheels using wood for the base and leather or felt for the contact area and then gluing emery on it

[Mac]

So.. I've been thinking about these polishing sticks for years now.



I even made a couple of them up about 20 years ago, but I can't find them right now. In any case, my assumption had been that the material tacked to the working face was leather. Now, I am wondering if it might be metallic. The other day I made a little test in which I used three different materials to present the same 220gr aluminum oxide and oil mix to a piece of scrap steel. In all cases, I applied the pressure with one hand and scrubbed the work for about 20 or 30 seconds.

Here is what I got with a leather "rubber". The rust came away, and the surface is bright, but there are no real scratches and one can still see the texture of the rolling mill surface.



The next rubber was a small ingot of leadfree pewter (Sn 92, Sb, 7.5, Cu .5) This produced some rather gratifying scratches, and in places, the mill surface has been removed.



The last test was with a piece of copper as the rubber. This produced much deeper and more aggressive scratches. there was also less damage to the copper rubber than to the pewter one.



These results are pretty encouraging. With coarser grit, I could imagine getting those long nasty scratches that one sees in real armor. If we posit that the guy in the pic had one stick with a metallic face and another with an organic face, he might get a grind and a (sort of) polish out of the same grit that he has in the little fabric bag. This might not really be what you want for production work, but it might be just fine for the guy who repairs and re-polishes

I have not yet tried rubbers of lead or of wood to see how they compare.

Mac

[Mac]

Practical Blacksmithing, Richardson, a collection of journal articles from 1889, 1890 and 1891, has information on making your own polishing wheels using wood for the base and leather or felt for the contact area and then gluing emery on it

Thanks, Thomas!

I have not read through that section in a decade or so. I'll re-read it to see if there are any goodies in there.

Mac

[Gerhard von Liebau]

So.. I've been thinking about these polishing sticks for years now...

In the little pouch on the ground beside the second polishing stick, do you think he has a bunch of extra segments of the polishing material? It looks like there are little holes in the protruding ends, which leads me to think that's what those are. If so, having a jolly pile of them on hand suggests that the material is quite a bit softer than the surface being polished, and readily replaced at need.

-Gerhard

[Sean M]

I think I remember Sean M saying something about having seen references to "cross filing" or perhaps "cross polishing" of armor. I wonder if this is what we're seeing here.

Mac

Mac,

My working definition of the verb traversare in the archive is "to cross-polish." But the problem is that my explanation of why it means that is part of the project we have been exchanging emails about, and if I am going to have it published, I can't post bits and pieces on forums until it is ready. Academics who want to check something google it too! And if I spend time writing up bits and pieces which I have already sorted out, I will never finish the ones I am stuck on.

This is the last thing I can say on the subject in public.

[Jason Grimes]

So.. I've been thinking about these polishing sticks for years now...

In the little pouch on the ground beside the second polishing stick, do you think he has a bunch of extra segments of the polishing material? It looks like there are little holes in the protruding ends, which leads me to think that's what those are. If so, having a jolly pile of them on hand suggests that the material is quite a bit softer than the surface being polished, and readily replaced at need.

-Gerhard

I have assumed that the bag holds more grinding medium (emery, etc.) and the pot holds oil (or something else?). These were used to recharge the grinding sticks as needed.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

I have assumed that the bag holds more grinding medium (emery, etc.) and the pot holds oil (or something else?). These were used to recharge the grinding sticks as needed.

Well whatever is in the bags is clearly in solid form with some kind of hole at the protruding end. Wouldn't the emery most likely be used as powder?

[Mac]

So.. I've been thinking about these polishing sticks for years now...

In the little pouch on the ground beside the second polishing stick, do you think he has a bunch of extra segments of the polishing material? It looks like there are little holes in the protruding ends, which leads me to think that's what those are. If so, having a jolly pile of them on hand suggests that the material is quite a bit softer than the surface being polished, and readily replaced at need.

-Gerhard

The bag is a standard detail of the hausbuch representations of armor polishers. I think it's a bag of abrasive powder. What you are seeing at the top is how the artist rendered the gathering of the bag. I think the bag is probably made of coarse enough stuff that it can be tapped against the work to apply the abrasive. This has worked for me in my earlier experiments.

The other standard detail is the ceramic vessel, usually with sort of stick protruding from it. I suspect that this is oil (or possibly water) and a brush to apply it.



With a "lapping" operation, like I propose, the abrasive grit is supposed to get embeded in the softer material of the tool. If everything is done with the right amount of pressure, lubrication, etc, the lap should not wear nearly as fast as the work piece.... at least that's what I understand from reading about it.

Mac

[Cet]

Greg, I don't see what your describing re te bag at all; do you have a larger image of it?

[Gerhard von Liebau]

No, Mac's last post made perfect sense. It was the bunched end of the bag I was looking at! In that particular image it looked like there were a bunch of dots at the top end of the bag, which seemed like a number of objects protruding out.

So what do you think are the most likely candidates for the material on the polishing sticks after your tests, Mac?

I also wonder, with the large variety of images showing these hand tools being used, was there a particular utility to them that was not achievable with a wheel, or is it simply us seeing that many polishers lacked access to a mill?

-Gerhard

[Mac]

I'm impressed by what copper can do, but I have not tried lead yet. The color in the hausbuch images (in as much as) suggests lead.

The rule of thumb is that a lap must be softer than the work, but the harder the lap the more aggressively it will act. I think that one could have several different laps or rubbers and by using exactly the same grit, get a progressively finer finish.

The alternative to that is to switch abrasives as well as tools to further the process. One might start with coarse emery (aluminum oxide) on copper, go to fine emery on lead, and finish with pumice on wood or pumice on leather. There are lots of possible paths, and perhaps one or more of them is the "right" one.

Mac

[Kristoffer]

I was told by a blacksmith that japanese smiths use "planers" for metal. You can apparently "shave" metal with the right tool. To me, the stick on the ground in the manuscript could easily be sort of a planer blade for metal.

[Jason Grimes]

The only thing about using metal I wonder about would be that wouldn't you want some flex with the boards? I could see that you would have stiff sticks for hard grinding and thinner more flexible ones for fine polishing. The thinner ones would more conform to the surface shape than the thicker ones.

[Mac]

I was told by a blacksmith that japanese smiths use "planers" for metal. You can apparently "shave" metal with the right tool. To me, the stick on the ground in the manuscript could easily be sort of a planer blade for metal.

Perhaps, but my intuition does not lead me that way. I'm not going to rule it out, but I will leave it to you to show me that I'm wrong. A google search for Japanese sword scrapers https://www.google.com/search?q=japanes ... YK_7ODM%3A Will get you a bunch of images.

Mac

[Mac]

The only thing about using metal I wonder about would be that wouldn't you want some flex with the boards? I could see that you would have stiff sticks for hard grinding and thinner more flexible ones for fine polishing. The thinner ones would more conform to the surface shape than the thicker ones.

The ones I have made don't seem to flex noticeably, but who knows, I may have it all wrong.

This is where I hope other guys will get psyched, drop what they are doing, and go out to their shops and do some polishing experiments.

Mac