The Armour Archive

Here is a thing labelled "Persian armour XVII-XVIII century" from some small museum.

The thing is made - according to witnesses - not from individual links, but from long springs (5 millimeters internal diameter, 1-1,2 millimeter wire).

After discussing it for some time we reached conclusion that the date and attributation are wrong and most probably it is XIX century fencing defence

http://www.geocities.com/sasa1.geo/surv/col.htm

Looks like the drape on my parents' fireplace.

Why would it be a fencing defense?
Seems like a simple leather coat would be better.

I think (with no evidence either way) that there is no reason not to think it is some really really crappy Munitions type "maile".
(there's some real crappy stuff in American museums that's made of some type of wire loops or another)

Maybe just a modern thing made to look like maile?
Or a late 19th early 20th cent tourist trinket?

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Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)

I've seen references to similarily designed "mail" in Japan. They were still making that type of shirt in the 18th/19th C, if not of that design. Looks like a less "skill intensive" way to make a shirt.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sasa:
<B>Here is a thing labelled "Persian armour XVII-XVIII century" from some small museum.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or perhaps its just worn under clothing to protect from assassinations...

They were still making and wearing make in the XVII-XVIII c. I've seen shirts available at antique stores occasionally over the years. Of course never when I could afford one.

Juliana

Hell, I think it looks cool. What small collection is it from? Patrick

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Patrick Thaden
Thaden Armory
http://www.thadenarmory.com

Hrm... looks a lot like the national museum in Budapest... least the quiver and the incorrectly strung bow...

the mail shirt looks like it could be legit to me, though the image quality could be better...

The arm guards are called karvashes and were common in Poland and Ottoman Turkey in the 17th century.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ron:
The arm guards are called karvashes and were common in Poland and Ottoman Turkey in the 17th century.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't remember the Polish name for it, though they do use a Hungarian-derived word for it, rather than the Tatar Kolchuk.

In Hungarian, karvas literally means "arm iron.." a.k.a. vambrace. Karvas can therefore be either the knightly or steppe-style arm defense.

I don't know what word the Turks use.

has anyone thought that the "mythical nobody knows what it really is" term banded maille could have stemmed from something like that?
just a thought that popped into me head

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