Riveted Historical Bascinet?

[Len Parker]

I just posted this on MyArmoury, what do you guys think, authentic or no?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/5a/67 ... c22875.jpg

I found it on pinterest (first link on left) https://www.pinterest.com/pin/544443042425337038/

[Mac]

I feel confident that this is modern.



--The shape is ergonomically bad (this is probably its best angle... a good side view would probably show better how wrong the forehead is)
--The construction is idiosyncratic
--The lining has been attached with lining strips in spite of having sewing holes along the neck edge
--There are no sewing holes along the face edge
--The hook on the forehead is not a thing I have ever seen on a bascinet
--The patina is very unconvincing

In short, there is nothing about this helmet that seems right.

The shape reminds me of the "castlerock" bascinet, which is certainly a stinker.





Mac

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

Central European movie prop? I can't find the one I want (as usual!) and these fellows seem to be wearing aluminum, but it sure does make me think of these epics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3kYZWO47Yg

[Len Parker]

Mac, I trust your judgement. It did remind me of these pics Ernst posted:

[Mac]

I try not to ever say things like "they never did that", because as soon as words leave my lips someone will show me an example.

That doesn't alter my impression of this helmet much, though. The riveted construction is only one strike against it, and not the biggest one at that.

If your interest is demonstrating that they sometimes riveted bascinets, those images you got from Ernst does that. Riveting was clearly not a typical, or even common method of construction, but it looks like it sometimes occurred.

Mac

[Mac]

Central European movie prop? I can't find the one I want (as usual!) and these fellows seem to be wearing aluminum, but it sure does make me think of these epics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3kYZWO47Yg

Golly! There must certainly be a lot of helmets left over from a production like that.

Some of them may have been plastic helmets, I think. There is a guy at about 7:00 who puts on one of those visored barbutes a la Musee de l'Armee, and the sides seem to flex more than I would expect for aluminum.

Mac

[wcallen]

I'm firmly with Mac on this one.

Not happy with that helmet at all. I don't think I would even put it in the category of "good fake."

Yes, they probably did make some riveted bascinet like things. No, this isn't one.

Wade

[jester]

I try not to ever say things like "they never did that", because as soon as words leave my lips someone will show me an example.

I thought I was the only one experiencing that. Huh, good to know.

[Mac]

I try not to ever say things like "they never did that", because as soon as words leave my lips someone will show me an example.

I thought I was the only one experiencing that. Huh, good to know.

We all experience that, but we don't all notice.

Mac

[Paul the Small]

I think it looks like an older (70s-80s) SCA attempt at a basinet. I've seen a lot of SCA helms with riveted liners and chain mail attached through holes along the bottom edge.

[Mark Griffin]

Think I wore this in the 80's....

[Novice]

No idea why the rivets would be on the forehead of the helmet like that. It seems as though if you're gonna take a good crack on the noggin, that's the worst place to put the seam, even if putting it on the back of the cranium would make it much longer. Having it face forward presents an obvious target to an opponent armed with any blunt-impact weapon heftier than a sword, which is something even the great helms these things superseded managed to avoid.

No expert, but this strange money-saving endeavor causes this helm to verge on not one but two steps back, to the weaknesses and issues of the spangen-constructed nasals the great helm and raised nasals supplanted.

Plus the overall shape just looks the opposite of right, somehow. Too rotund and onion-like, perhaps.

[Mac]

No idea why the rivets would be on the forehead of the helmet like that. It seems as though if you're gonna take a good crack on the noggin, that's the worst place to put the seam, even if putting it on the back of the cranium would make it much longer.

Have a close look at the point, and you will see that the seam appears to continue down the back as well. I am reasonably confident that this helmet was made in two halves.

Plus the overall shape just looks the opposite of right, somehow. Too rotund and onion-like, perhaps.

As you say, the shape is all sorts of wrong. Yet, at the same time it is somehow pleasing to the modern eye. That's a good sign of a fake, and a sign of a good fake. That is "good" if your intention is not so much fooling connoisseurs as fooling the sort of collector with more money than expertise.

Mac