Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

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Jonathan Dean
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Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Jonathan Dean »

I've been struggling to translate some sections of Chronique des ducs de Normandie, which has one of the earliest references to cuiries and the earliest reference to an aketon that I'm aware of. My modern French is practically non-existent, and my Anglo-Norman is worse, even with the aid of the Anglo-Norman dictionary, so it's been a lot like banging my head against a wall. I've managed to translate one section that I think is tolerably accurate, and another that I'm halfway sure of, but two more of them have me throwing my hands up in frustration. That's when I found the aketon references and knew I was in trouble.

Is there anyone here who'd be willing to translate the passages? There's a fair number of references, so I'm willing to shout you a book or two in exchange. I've been using this edition as my source. I'm especially interested in finding out if the cuiries are being worn with mail or in the place of mail (if it's possible to distinguish the two) and if the aketons are being worn with mail (and if there's anything on whether they're worn under or over the mail), as stand alone armour or both, as well as whether there's anything on their construction.
E Rous fait garder sa navie a de ses nieillors compagnons; puis revestent les aucotons e les haubers blans e tresliz.
(p164, lines 2346-2349)
Li avenirs des Reinoudeis fu si estranges sur Daneis que sur escuz e sur quirées e sur broines menu maelées bruisent mil lances de sapin si que li champ e li chemin en sunt tuit junchée e covert
(p214, lines 3765-3771)
N'i unt ne armes ne destriers, ne mais furches, fauz e coigniées, senz haubergons e senz quirées; quident le gisant aveir conquis des granz terres e des pais que Daneis unt senz repentir seit lor le jor à départir.
(p260/261, lines 5110-5116)
Mult furent lié Costentineis ; les haubers vestent demaneis e lacent eaumes e quirées; tost sunt lor gentz apareillées; e cum il i aient enor, Del comandement lor seignor est desiros chascuns del faire; Ne s'en voudra nul d'els retraire.
(p491, lines 11838-11845)
Al assembler del fereiz si dotèrent des plus hardiz; mais quant ii sans de mi les vis lor est eschaufez, d'ire espris si sunt plus fiers qu'ors ne liun. Qui le jor pout son aucoton garder qu'ai seir ne fust meins beaus, del sanc vermeil de ses buaus, bien pout dire jent l'en avint.
(p764 of the .pdf/p114 of the second volume, lines 18646-18654)
La nuit ei grant palais autor, quant sis osbcrs li fu ostez, qui en plusors leus ert fausez, remest en l'aucoton de seie qui en sanc e en suor glaceie ; les mailes out el front enprientes.
(p781 of the .pdf/p131 of the second volume, lines 19185-19190)
Fors del gué fu li reis eissuz; mais ne fu gaires parseguz, iriez en fu mult e destreitz. Dune i avint ii quens Geofreiz od Angevins pleins de jugleis; mais ci lor fu mis en defeis, e neporoc lances bassées lor vunt efifundrer les quirées e les escuz e les osbercs.
(p860 of the .pdf/p210 of the second volume, lines 21532-21540)
Refundrent des escuz les es, faussent osberc e aucoton, qu'en sanc muillent li gunfanon. Ci soffrirent Normant grant peine ; a si ne fust la gent vilaine, il i peussent meschater; mais ci oïssiez cri lever, ferir de fauz e de mazues e de gisarmes esmolues, traient saettes barbelées.
(p864 of the .pdf/p214 of the second volume, lines 21655-21664)
Quant tuit se furent départi, couchié partot, car bien ert tens, dune cens ù fu li maus porpens, félon, parjor e traïtor e vers Deu e vers lor seignor, Neel, Hamun, Ranol, Grimout, eissi que nule riens ne l' sout, od lor plus privez compaignons vestent desus les aucotons, les blans osbers soz les goneles, ci aura jà fieres noveles : morz est li dux, jà ert mordriz, si ne l' defent Sainz-Esperiz.
(p35, line 32777-32789)
Entr'eus out chaple e contençon, là se muillent li aucoton Sor les ausbers fausez e roz , là s'en enverse des plus proz, là resunt percié li escu , e arosé li champ herbu, là out fier glaive e fier traïn;
(p60, lines 33558-33564)

The next couple are just purely if you're feeling up to it, but I think they might refer to cuisses and jambs and, since I haven't heard of them being used this early, I'd be interested in seeing if I'm right (all from the third volume).
Toz tens creisseit son desier, de rien n'en ert resaziez : por ce remangout l'un des piez e os e char à mulz granz mors, e la gambe de ci quel cors
(p328, lines 40586-40590)
Des pez, des gambes vei itant, que tu mangoes maintenant, e les quisses de ci quel cors: c'est qu'à un pecchié t'ies amors qui de là sort e de là vient, dunt totes riens de tei se crient que Deus ne t'en acoille en s'ire;
(p333, lines 40681-40687)
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Ernst
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Ernst »

I don't really have time tonight to do full translations, but will hit a few select points:
Jonathan Dean wrote:I'm especially interested in finding out if the cuiries are being worn with mail or in the place of mail (if it's possible to distinguish the two) and if the aketons are being worn with mail (and if there's anything on whether they're worn under or over the mail), as stand alone armour or both, as well as whether there's anything on their construction.
E Rous fait garder sa navie a de ses nieillors compagnons; puis revestent les aucotons e les haubers blans e tresliz.
(p164, lines 2346-2349)

...then put back on the aketons and the white, thickly woven (trellised) hauberks.
Li avenirs des Reinoudeis fu si estranges sur Daneis que sur escuz e sur quirées e sur broines menu maelées bruisent mil lances de sapin si que li champ e li chemin en sunt tuit junchée e covert
(p214, lines 3765-3771)

....which onto(?) shields, and onto cuiries, and onto byrnies... sounds like the layers the lances pierce.
N'i unt ne armes ne destriers, ne mais furches, fauz e coigniées, senz haubergons e senz quirées; quident le gisant aveir conquis des granz terres e des pais que Daneis unt senz repentir seit lor le jor à départir.
(p260/261, lines 5110-5116)

...without hauberks and without cuiries... that is, rode forth undefended.
Mult furent lié Costentineis ; les haubers vestent demaneis e lacent eaumes e quirées; tost sunt lor gentz apareillées; e cum il i aient enor, Del comandement lor seignor est desiros chascuns del faire; Ne s'en voudra nul d'els retraire.
(p491, lines 11838-11845)

....immediately dressed in hauberks,, and laced helms and cuiries...
Al assembler del fereiz si dotèrent des plus hardiz; mais quant ii sans de mi les vis lor est eschaufez, d'ire espris si sunt plus fiers qu'ors ne liun. Qui le jor pout son aucoton garder qu'ai seir ne fust meins beaus, del sanc vermeil de ses buaus, bien pout dire jent l'en avint.
(p764 of the .pdf/p114 of the second volume, lines 18646-18654)

Who took an oath for his aketon to hold...? Last line of defense?
La nuit ei grant palais autor, quant sis osbcrs li fu ostez, qui en plusors leus ert fausez, remest en l'aucoton de seie qui en sanc e en suor glaceie ; les mailes out el front enprientes.
(p781 of the .pdf/p131 of the second volume, lines 19185-19190)

....put back on the aketon of silk which was bloody and sweaty; the rings impressed into the front. ? Silk faced aketons are well documented, but I sense this implies the weight of the mail has impressed its pattern into the gambeson
Fors del gué fu li reis eissuz; mais ne fu gaires parseguz, iriez en fu mult e destreitz. Dune i avint ii quens Geofreiz od Angevins pleins de jugleis; mais ci lor fu mis en defeis, e neporoc lances bassées lor vunt efifundrer les quirées e les escuz e les osbercs.
(p860 of the .pdf/p210 of the second volume, lines 21532-21540)

I see the cuiries, shields, and haubercs, but am unsure of the preceeding text.
Refundrent des escuz les es, faussent osberc e aucoton, qu'en sanc muillent li gunfanon. Ci soffrirent Normant grant peine ; a si ne fust la gent vilaine, il i peussent meschater; mais ci oïssiez cri lever, ferir de fauz e de mazues e de gisarmes esmolues, traient saettes barbelées.
(p864 of the .pdf/p214 of the second volume, lines 21655-21664)

Again we see the hauberk and aketon mentioned together.
Quant tuit se furent départi, couchié partot, car bien ert tens, dune cens ù fu li maus porpens, félon, parjor e traïtor e vers Deu e vers lor seignor, Neel, Hamun, Ranol, Grimout, eissi que nule riens ne l' sout, od lor plus privez compaignons vestent desus les aucotons, les blans osbers soz les goneles, ci aura jà fieres noveles : morz est li dux, jà ert mordriz, si ne l' defent Sainz-Esperiz.
(p35, line 32777-32789)

....companions dressed over the aketons, the white hauberks
Entr'eus out chaple e contençon, là se muillent li aucoton Sor les ausbers fausez e roz , là s'en enverse des plus proz, là resunt percié li escu , e arosé li champ herbu, là out fier glaive e fier traïn;
(p60, lines 33558-33564)

The next couple are just purely if you're feeling up to it, but I think they might refer to cuisses and jambs and, since I haven't heard of them being used this early, I'd be interested in seeing if I'm right (all from the third volume).
Toz tens creisseit son desier, de rien n'en ert resaziez : por ce remangout l'un des piez e os e char à mulz granz mors, e la gambe de ci quel cors
(p328, lines 40586-40590)
Des pez, des gambes vei itant, que tu mangoes maintenant, e les quisses de ci quel cors: c'est qu'à un pecchié t'ies amors qui de là sort e de là vient, dunt totes riens de tei se crient que Deus ne t'en acoille en s'ire;
(p333, lines 40681-40687)[/quote]
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Ernst
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Ernst »

3624 Dunc vestirent les aucotuns
3625 E les haubers desus, tresliz;
3626 Lacent les heaumes clers, burniz;

So put on the aketons
and the hauberks over, well-woven;
Laced the helms clear, burnished;
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
Jonathan Dean
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Jonathan Dean »

Thanks Ernst, that's a huge help! It looks like the aketons were worn under the mail all throughout the work, and that the cuiries - where mentioned - were an additional layer above the mail. I wonder why there's no reference to them after Hastings? I'd initially wondered if they might have been an armour option and that Benoit was simply showing how primitive armour was back in the early days of Normandy, but that doesn't seem to be an option now.

Do you think that the references to "quisses" and "gambe" are references to armour, or just generic terms for "thigh" and "leg"?
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Ernst
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Ernst »

Undoubtedly, this work mentions equipment which was used at the time it was written, as opposed to trying to reflect some ancient tradition. Unfortunately, there is some question of the authorship, which impacts whether the dating of the Chronicles is before 1173 or afterwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beno%C3%A ... inte-Maure
Benoît de Sainte-Maure died 1173
Chronique des ducs de Normandie
Another major work, by a Benoît, probably Benoît de Sainte-Maure, is a lengthy verse Chronique des ducs de Normandie. Its manuscript at Tours, dating to 1180–1200, is probably the oldest surviving text in Old French transcribed on the Continent.
I think the cuisses and jambs are the body parts, thigh and legs, as you suggest. This is perhaps most clear in line 5150's arms, thighs, and feet.
Là en veissiez tant découper,
Tanz chés fenduz en deus meitiez
Tanz braz , tantes quisses e tant piez,

There so much to cut,
So many to split down the middle in two
So many arms, thighs, and feet,


I've searched various spellings of gambeson and pourpoint, but haven't found any of the infantryman's armor mentioned, nor any mail chausses, which is unusual, but there may be a peculiar spelling caused by the dialect which I have yet to discover.
There are also a couple of references to lacing ventails to be examined.
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Jonathan Dean
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Jonathan Dean »

Undoubtedly, this work mentions equipment which was used at the time it was written, as opposed to trying to reflect some ancient tradition. Unfortunately, there is some question of the authorship, which impacts whether the dating of the Chronicles is before 1173 or afterwards.
That's a fair point, but I'm not sure that the earliest extent manuscript is necessarily any guide to this. Wace's Roman de Brut, for example, is well established as having been completed by 1155, but we don't have any manuscript from before a couple of decades later. Given the length and subject of the Chronicles, I'd also be surprised if there was a second Benoit willing to put such an effort into the attempt, given Wace's existing incomplete work and a first Benoit's (apparently non-surviving) work.

Either way, it does seem odd that some kind of leather armour reinforcing mail is mentioned early on, only to vanish as events get closer to the author's presence. Wace may have mentioned the existence of leather armour as early as 1155 (although I'm not sure I can justify spending $20+ in library fees to double check Eugene Mason's translation), but he certainly mentions it as infantry armour at some point before his death in 1175 in his Roman de Rou, and John of Salisbury mentions the Welsh wearing "fasciis pectus et praeduro tectus corio" in his Policraticus, which was mostly written between 1156/7 and 1159. So leather armour (most likely as a reinforcement for mail or textile armour) does seem to have been known at the time that the Chronicles was composed, whoever the author.
I think the cuisses and jambs are the body parts, thigh and legs, as you suggest.
I thought a potential reference to them as armour was too good to be true.
I've searched various spellings of gambeson and pourpoint, but haven't found any of the infantryman's armor mentioned, nor any mail chausses, which is unusual, but there may be a peculiar spelling caused by the dialect which I have yet to discover.
I appreciate that! I had a go at the same thing, but I'm glad someone who has a better knowledge of the language also looked it over.
There are also a couple of references to lacing ventails to be examined.
That sounds fascinating. I look forward to seeing what you discover.
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Ernst »

In European Armour, Claude Blair suggest the cuirie first appears around 1175, though a few decades before seems reasonable based on more modern scholarship. There are plenty of records of them in the early 13th century chanson Gaydon, and they continue to appear in early 14th century inventories, so we have 150 years of use, which is commendable.

The issue of having later editions of such works as Benoit's Chronicle is that it's not unknown from other works for couplets to be added or dropped, or meter to be adjusted with the addition or deletion of a few words. But as you note, the world is only populated with so many Benoits or Waces capable of doing such work at any given time. Given the number of references to cuiries within the work, it would be difficult to imagine all of them being added to a later edition after his death in 1173.

ll. 3859-3861
Li heaumes li fu detrenchez
E li haubers mult desmaelez
E la ventaille derompue.


The helms that were cut in pieces
And the hauberks losing many rings
And the ventail broken.

At least a couple of the ventail references refer to them being unlaced, so it's reasonable to correlate these to the ventails closing attached mail coifs.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
Jonathan Dean
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Jonathan Dean »

Huh, I hadn't thought about that. A later interpolation would explain why "quirée" doesn't appear throughout the whole text. There are only four references, after all, and I could imagine someone deciding to add them n and giving up halfway through.
clifford rogers
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by clifford rogers »

Jonathan Dean wrote:

Li avenirs des Reinoudeis fu si estranges sur Daneis que sur escuz e sur quirées e sur broines menu maelées bruisent mil lances de sapin si que li champ e li chemin en sunt tuit junchée e covert
(p214, lines 3765-3771)
"...against shields, cuirasses, and byrnies of tight mail[/small rings], they broke a thousand lances of fir, so that the field and road wwere entirely covered with them [the fragments]."
Jonathan Dean
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Re: Anyone willing to translate some Anglo-Norman text?

Post by Jonathan Dean »

Thanks for the translation. It's a big help!
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