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Hair Bonnet/net as a method for keeping hair in for knights.

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 am
by LeonStar
I am curious if there is any literature regarding this. Its something I see every once in awhile when a knight usually has their helmet off and in some kind of none formal setting. The best image depicting this seems to be durers st. george portrait.

https://www.karlundfaber.de/wp-content/ ... 40201_.jpg

One or two characters at maximilians court

https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/ ... 828563.jpg

Having studied originals quite much I have noticed that often times there is a more elongated back end of many helmets that would suggest that hair was all put entirely in the helmet. Generally speaking skulls usually dont have that sort of anatomy where the back end sticks out that much, however environments will literally shape the development of how skulls are grown as one one anatomy doctor pointed out, and I will edit this post with that information as soon as I find it.

Having seen a few images such as the ones above, that leaves to to conclude that the making of a helmet may have also included taking ones hair amount as a factor. For anyone who has had shoulder length hair or longer, the reasons for going some kind of bonnet with a tight suit like this would be clear as movement would constantly be pulling ones hair uncomfortably.

Did I find something unique, or am I going insane?

Update: A wonderful post showing a hair collecting bonnet with Maximilian armour. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Re: Hair Bonnet/net as a method for keeping hair in for knig

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:18 am
by John Vernier
Not insane, these nets are definitely a thing. They seem to be particularly a late 15th and early 16th century thing when fashionable young men often wore their hair long. You do see them in civilian contexts too. Here in the famous Weisskoening armor shop scene Conrad Seusenhofer on the left seems to be wearing one of these to keep his hair out of his work:
Image
You will find them in portraits as well. This one may be by Durer:
Image

I agree with you that the shape of helmet skulls in this period may be influenced by the bulk of hair which needed to be tucked into them, although the fashionable shape is probably a sculptural exaggeration rather than a necessity.
Image

Re: Hair Bonnet/net as a method for keeping hair in for knig

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:35 pm
by LeonStar
John Vernier wrote:Not insane, these nets are definitely a thing. They seem to be particularly a late 15th and early 16th century thing when fashionable young men often wore their hair long. You do see them in civilian contexts too. Here in the famous Weisskoening armor shop scene Conrad Seusenhofer on the left seems to be wearing one of these to keep his hair out of his work:
Image
You will find them in portraits as well. This one may be by Durer:
Image

I agree with you that the shape of helmet skulls in this period may be influenced by the bulk of hair which needed to be tucked into them, although the fashionable shape is probably a sculptural exaggeration rather than a necessity.
Image
Oh goodness, and that era is my favorite for many things. I noticed is that portrait the bonnet appears to collect hair primarily in the back of the skull, which also appears to match well the helmet.

There are some exaggerations for sure. I have for instance a more connically shaped head that would appear to fit a more maximillian style helmet with the "metal mohawk" look, but its not that conical. Its just speculation, but I would imagine the influence for that might be ancient roman helmets that had that style, and while the HRE, isnt anything is name says it is, they do identify with it and hence that possible influence. It can also deflect top end blows betters, though I am curious how that compares to the helmet below, and the preceding norman or eastern style

Image This helmet shows another angle of which fashion may go, and is an appreciable throw back from the norman era. Hard to say if the user kept there hair up more or not. https://www.philamuseum.org/collections ... 70611%7C39#

The mohawk style, or normal style also is practical in deflecting top end blows, however I am curious how they might compare in testing and combat.

Re: Hair Bonnet/net as a method for keeping hair in for knig

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:38 am
by Egfroth
Durer's Paumgartner altar shows two military saints wearing them - see https://www.flickr.com/photos/snarfel/8628946580 for a more detailed view, and his Adoration of the Trinity has a nice shot of Bob Hope in golden armour wearing one (I knew he was old, but not THAT old . . .)

Re: Hair Bonnet/net as a method for keeping hair in for knig

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:16 pm
by Tom B.
Try adding the term "Caul" to your searches.

Re: Hair Bonnet/net as a method for keeping hair in for knig

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:01 pm
by LeonStar
Tom B. wrote:Try adding the term "Caul" to your searches.
Caul, Bonnet, Hair net, we are all describing the same thing :lol: I think the term bonnet is more for a fabric based head piece to hold and shape hair, while caul seems to be purely a net, however I have seen them all refereed to differently as such. Is 'Caul' the technically proper term for this piece?

Aside from this forum there doesnt seem to be much literature on it.

http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=222954

Re: Hair Bonnet/net as a method for keeping hair in for knig

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:15 pm
by Tom B.